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On April 28 2013 04:57 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 04:55 Slayer91 wrote:On April 28 2013 04:49 kongoline wrote:
whats better for a single dmg item on j4 trinity or botrk ? trinity isnt a single target damage item it provides mobility burst damage and a slow for chasing power as well as some hp and mana (sometimes useful) botrk is way better for single target damage but I'd say trinity is a better item for a fed jarvan in general (if theres lots of skirmishes and chases its significantly better but in all in dives in teamfights its probably about the same because the active is so good over a short time) i mean one damage item rest tank not single target 
why is that relevant? Botrk does more damage on paper, but that often doesn't matter when you're a melee so you have to use your best judgement and it has a lot to do with the time in the game and teamcomps and how you intend to play and such
i would say in general trinity in better but there are certainly situations botrk is better (any short burst of time where the active is up most of the duration)
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On April 28 2013 05:28 BlackPaladin wrote:
Better than waking up to your roommate's morning wood 5 feet from your face. Every. Fucking. Day.
please tell us some more
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are there any tests done botrk vs trinity? im curious which item is overall stronger for bruisers
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United States15536 Posts
On April 28 2013 03:38 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2013 23:58 jliu wrote:
Hi all, I love TL and recently have switched over to playing league from sc2, and I just started playing ranked in silver 5. I've mostly play jungle in soloq, and had a question about jungling at my level in soloq.
From what I understand, there are two main types of jungle playstyles; gank-dependent and farm-dependent. I either play a champ with the ability to snowball and attempt to secure early game kills and assists, or sit back, farm, and help defend towers. I often hear that a jungler is meant to help lanes get fed, and not necessarily carry themselves. I understand this at high elos and in competitive play. In silver, however, most people don't know how to control their lanes or how to capitalize on successful no-kill ganks (e.g. burning summoners, etc...). I also am not knowledgeable enough about the game to pull of successful tower dives when players constantly push towers. That being said, I'm often confused about how to play in solo q when there is little cooperation from lanes.
I love to be a playmaker and to be ganking often, so my favorite and main junglers are high-skillcap champs like Zed and Lee Sin, but they tend to be dependent on early game kills. Does anyone have suggestions of how to play those junglers in soloQ when your lanes play as if there is no jungler? All other things aside, should I sit back and farm, or keep trying to create opportunities in lane? Are there any other fun middle of the road junglers that will let me be an aggressive jungler that scale well off farm into mid-game? I play Jarvan and Nasus occassionally, and I think they fall into that category, but honesty I find them pretty boring in terms of mechanical difficulty. Thanks for any help xD There's actually 3 types of junglers; in addition to gank/farm oriented champions, there are also counterjunglers whose entire purpose is to set back/kill the enemy jungler and destroy his pressure. This style of jungle play isn't as strong as it use to be from its heyday in S1 (where you could liberally screw over the enemy jungler with Nunu from level 1 onwards and keep him down the entire game, while scaling insanely better then them because you're a support-jungler who need no gold), but it's still a viable form of play, especially against weak/fragile early-game junglers like Nautilus. Playing Lee Sin vs Naut for instance, you can spend your early game killing/pressuring him off his camps and keeping him from doing anything. These days, counterjungling is most prominently about stealing the major buffs (blue/red) given the relatively quick respawn timer of the smaller camps, but you can still go about taking the enemy camps if you have proper warding and lane pressure (and feel like you can donate all your camps to your laners). In silver soloQ, enemy lanes don't react very quickly to jungle invades. In general, if you don't have strong lane cooperation for ganks, showing pressure is more then enough (if the enemy lanes are afraid of being ganked, you're still setting them back), or else crippling the enemy jungler, which many early game junglers can do. You can farm if you're a carry jungler (Noc, Xin, Nasus), but I would recommend learning how to counterjungle. As for possible junglers that sorta fall into both: Vi, Hecarim, Trundle (highly situational given CDR+his pillar is his main selling point now [since they removed shred on Baron and Dragon], which makes him great for poke comps), Fiddlesticks, Diana (yes she can), Skarner, Shyvanna, and Dr. Mundo (though early Mundo clear is rather risky). Oh, and Udyr. You might even try out Taric in the jungle. He's actually hilariously good at it once you get through the initial clear and pick up some mana items.
I would even expand this to four types of junglers, though these usually can be one of the other kinds as well. Objective-oriented junglers. People play Nasus a lot like this, but Elise or Vi or Zac could be used similarly. Anything that can take down Dragon/Baron very quickly could fall under this category.
Unless this is what you mean by farm-oriented. Then I'm just saying the same thing as that. =P
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On April 28 2013 05:59 kongoline wrote:
are there any tests done botrk vs trinity? im curious which item is overall stronger for bruisers
you can't do tests trinity gives stats which you can't give a solid gold value because of the rarity of the stats (sheen proc, slow, movement speed)
trinity is more cost effective but gives a wider range of stats meaning its actual value could be less, its also hard to value the botrk active and passive on hit effects.
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On April 28 2013 05:46 Celestia wrote:
This thread is so random, WTH?
This is how general discussions thread should be. Welcome!
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On April 28 2013 05:09 Zizoz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 01:32 obesechicken13 wrote:On April 27 2013 19:18 Mondieu wrote:On April 27 2013 18:02 kongoline wrote:
kennen is like teemo 2.0, hope he wont become popular again (which is unlikely considering hes perma ban in korea right now) How is he teemo 2.0 ? He has good team fight power, but without his ultimate he's a bit of a joke unfortunately. And he has no team fighting without his ultimate either. With Vanguard being as powerfful as it is it is also unlikey that we'll see double AP making a comeback, and that's where Kennen was actually very good at. DotA spy sptted! I'm honestly confused -- what was meant by Vanguard? The only Vanguard in LoL is Skarner, the Crystal Vanguard, and I don't recall people saying he's strong, plus doesn't he go well with double AP? I also thought it might be a mistake for Armguard but that also helps APs...
Vanguard and Aegis look very similar. They are both shields. Hence the newb to LoL mistake.
There is data on win rates with BotRK and TriForce on lolking. You can filter it by Jarvan. But the problem is that TF is more expensive therefore it's likely that if you can afford to finish it you've already won.
In general I think the items you get can depend on the situation, the lane opponent, what kind of player you are, and even how the game is going. If the top guides in the game says to max Q on blitz but you feel max W is stronger then max W.
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On April 28 2013 05:09 Zizoz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 01:32 obesechicken13 wrote:On April 27 2013 19:18 Mondieu wrote:On April 27 2013 18:02 kongoline wrote:
kennen is like teemo 2.0, hope he wont become popular again (which is unlikely considering hes perma ban in korea right now) How is he teemo 2.0 ? He has good team fight power, but without his ultimate he's a bit of a joke unfortunately. And he has no team fighting without his ultimate either. With Vanguard being as powerfful as it is it is also unlikey that we'll see double AP making a comeback, and that's where Kennen was actually very good at. DotA spy sptted! I'm honestly confused -- what was meant by Vanguard? The only Vanguard in LoL is Skarner, the Crystal Vanguard, and I don't recall people saying he's strong, plus doesn't he go well with double AP? I also thought it might be a mistake for Armguard but that also helps APs...
I think he meant bulwark. Both are shield type items according to the image.
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Mancloud doesn't look that impressive when he's not donated the blue right off the bat. This looked similar to game 2 where Link just straight up outplays Mancloud the entire game starting from the FB. (Where mancloud actually had blue lvl 1 but was Karthus)
He's still very consistent but I wouldn't call him "the best NA" just yet.
NA also seems to play terribly against pokes.
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On April 28 2013 06:46 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 05:59 kongoline wrote:
are there any tests done botrk vs trinity? im curious which item is overall stronger for bruisers you can't do tests trinity gives stats which you can't give a solid gold value because of the rarity of the stats (sheen proc, slow, movement speed) trinity is more cost effective but gives a wider range of stats meaning its actual value could be less, its also hard to value the botrk active and passive on hit effects.
http://lol.askmrrobot.com/tools/builder/jarvaniv-vs-targetdummy#r=Damage,t=TargetDummy,d=Dps
according to this botrk is superior dps wise and its without adding extra stats u could get for 600g u pay less for it.
(i dont have account there so i couldnt save it fk it i cba to make everything again just to paste link ;/)
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On April 28 2013 07:36 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 06:46 Slayer91 wrote:On April 28 2013 05:59 kongoline wrote:
are there any tests done botrk vs trinity? im curious which item is overall stronger for bruisers you can't do tests trinity gives stats which you can't give a solid gold value because of the rarity of the stats (sheen proc, slow, movement speed) trinity is more cost effective but gives a wider range of stats meaning its actual value could be less, its also hard to value the botrk active and passive on hit effects. http://lol.askmrrobot.com/tools/builder/jarvaniv-vs-targetdummy#r=Damage,t=TargetDummy,d=Dpsaccording to this botrk is superior dps wise and its without adding extra stats u could get for 600g u pay less for it. (i dont have account there so i couldnt save it fk it i cba to make everything again just to paste link ;/)
bit of a dick move but
On April 28 2013 04:55 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 04:49 kongoline wrote:
whats better for a single dmg item on j4 trinity or botrk ? trinity isnt a single target damage item it provides mobility burst damage and a slow for chasing power as well as some hp and mana (sometimes useful) botrk is way better for single target damage but I'd say trinity is a better item for a fed jarvan in general (if theres lots of skirmishes and chases its significantly better but in all in dives in teamfights its probably about the same because the active is so good over a short time)
edit: not sure if i did it right but if i did the dps tester doesnt even take into account sheen proc l0ls
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On April 28 2013 07:41 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 07:36 kongoline wrote:On April 28 2013 06:46 Slayer91 wrote:On April 28 2013 05:59 kongoline wrote:
are there any tests done botrk vs trinity? im curious which item is overall stronger for bruisers you can't do tests trinity gives stats which you can't give a solid gold value because of the rarity of the stats (sheen proc, slow, movement speed) trinity is more cost effective but gives a wider range of stats meaning its actual value could be less, its also hard to value the botrk active and passive on hit effects. http://lol.askmrrobot.com/tools/builder/jarvaniv-vs-targetdummy#r=Damage,t=TargetDummy,d=Dpsaccording to this botrk is superior dps wise and its without adding extra stats u could get for 600g u pay less for it. (i dont have account there so i couldnt save it fk it i cba to make everything again just to paste link ;/) bit of a dick move but Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 04:55 Slayer91 wrote:On April 28 2013 04:49 kongoline wrote:
whats better for a single dmg item on j4 trinity or botrk ? trinity isnt a single target damage item it provides mobility burst damage and a slow for chasing power as well as some hp and mana (sometimes useful) botrk is way better for single target damage but I'd say trinity is a better item for a fed jarvan in general (if theres lots of skirmishes and chases its significantly better but in all in dives in teamfights its probably about the same because the active is so good over a short time) edit: not sure if i did it right but if i did the dps tester doesnt even take into account sheen proc l0ls
click "show more details" button it adds sheen
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You young'uns and your having roommates.
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United States47024 Posts
The other thing about Trinity is that it has rounded stats and better buildup, which fundamentally makes it better for the kind of games where you're constantly pressuring and fighting. BotRK has gaps in the progression towrad it and naked Daggers aren't as good as the Triforce pieces (Sheen/Zeal/Phage) in providing incremental stats, so you generally need a certain amount of time to properly finish it, whereas Triforce is more or less "good" the whole time you're making it.
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On April 28 2013 07:57 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 07:41 Slayer91 wrote:On April 28 2013 07:36 kongoline wrote:On April 28 2013 06:46 Slayer91 wrote:On April 28 2013 05:59 kongoline wrote:
are there any tests done botrk vs trinity? im curious which item is overall stronger for bruisers you can't do tests trinity gives stats which you can't give a solid gold value because of the rarity of the stats (sheen proc, slow, movement speed) trinity is more cost effective but gives a wider range of stats meaning its actual value could be less, its also hard to value the botrk active and passive on hit effects. http://lol.askmrrobot.com/tools/builder/jarvaniv-vs-targetdummy#r=Damage,t=TargetDummy,d=Dpsaccording to this botrk is superior dps wise and its without adding extra stats u could get for 600g u pay less for it. (i dont have account there so i couldnt save it fk it i cba to make everything again just to paste link ;/) bit of a dick move but On April 28 2013 04:55 Slayer91 wrote:On April 28 2013 04:49 kongoline wrote:
whats better for a single dmg item on j4 trinity or botrk ? trinity isnt a single target damage item it provides mobility burst damage and a slow for chasing power as well as some hp and mana (sometimes useful) botrk is way better for single target damage but I'd say trinity is a better item for a fed jarvan in general (if theres lots of skirmishes and chases its significantly better but in all in dives in teamfights its probably about the same because the active is so good over a short time) edit: not sure if i did it right but if i did the dps tester doesnt even take into account sheen proc l0ls click "show more details" button it adds sheen
I don't think it takes into account using abilities on cooldown to keep proccing it thought
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Ask Mr robot has many assumptions that Makes it unrealistic. By its measures every fight is a 1v1 with no flashes or retreats. Abilities have no animations, there is no such thing as range and stacks always start at 0.
Also your link is to a generic jarvan build. You have to save builds to link them to others. In addition ask has unrealistic dummy targets and nonsensical buy times. Eg. You can have one build get botrk at 15 mins vs a 50 armor opponent and the other get TF at 24 minutes against a 90 armor target.
Something this complicated is not easy to math out.
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I just got a shake impersonator in my game o_O
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On April 28 2013 08:42 Nos- wrote:
I just got a shake impersonator in my game o_O
Snakebrizzle
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On April 28 2013 05:47 Numy wrote:
Why do you guys put up with roommates that do that? Guess I'm in unique situation where my cousin is my flatmate and we always been close so easy to sort issues out.
The RA knew everything about it. Literally me and my 2 suite-mates complained about him constantly because he annoyed all of us. Nothing was done. We had no clue what to do because we were always told just to "deal with it" regardless of how many people and how often we filed complaints and bothered our RA. Nearly everyone we were friends with knew all about him watching beastiality and other porn in the lounges all over campus, yet for some reason the college doesn't block that shit. My one suitemate lived not too far from the college, but did a dorm room for the "college experience." He ended up living at home for the last 2 months because he got fed up with my roommate lol.
It was only 1 year at least with him. Got an apartment after that shit.
On April 28 2013 05:56 greggy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 05:28 BlackPaladin wrote:
Better than waking up to your roommate's morning wood 5 feet from your face. Every. Fucking. Day. please tell us some more
All my friends first time meeting him was when he was in his underwear (tighty whiteys). He has c cup man boobs. G_G
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On April 28 2013 06:03 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 03:38 Lord Tolkien wrote:On April 27 2013 23:58 jliu wrote:
Hi all, I love TL and recently have switched over to playing league from sc2, and I just started playing ranked in silver 5. I've mostly play jungle in soloq, and had a question about jungling at my level in soloq.
From what I understand, there are two main types of jungle playstyles; gank-dependent and farm-dependent. I either play a champ with the ability to snowball and attempt to secure early game kills and assists, or sit back, farm, and help defend towers. I often hear that a jungler is meant to help lanes get fed, and not necessarily carry themselves. I understand this at high elos and in competitive play. In silver, however, most people don't know how to control their lanes or how to capitalize on successful no-kill ganks (e.g. burning summoners, etc...). I also am not knowledgeable enough about the game to pull of successful tower dives when players constantly push towers. That being said, I'm often confused about how to play in solo q when there is little cooperation from lanes.
I love to be a playmaker and to be ganking often, so my favorite and main junglers are high-skillcap champs like Zed and Lee Sin, but they tend to be dependent on early game kills. Does anyone have suggestions of how to play those junglers in soloQ when your lanes play as if there is no jungler? All other things aside, should I sit back and farm, or keep trying to create opportunities in lane? Are there any other fun middle of the road junglers that will let me be an aggressive jungler that scale well off farm into mid-game? I play Jarvan and Nasus occassionally, and I think they fall into that category, but honesty I find them pretty boring in terms of mechanical difficulty. Thanks for any help xD There's actually 3 types of junglers; in addition to gank/farm oriented champions, there are also counterjunglers whose entire purpose is to set back/kill the enemy jungler and destroy his pressure. This style of jungle play isn't as strong as it use to be from its heyday in S1 (where you could liberally screw over the enemy jungler with Nunu from level 1 onwards and keep him down the entire game, while scaling insanely better then them because you're a support-jungler who need no gold), but it's still a viable form of play, especially against weak/fragile early-game junglers like Nautilus. Playing Lee Sin vs Naut for instance, you can spend your early game killing/pressuring him off his camps and keeping him from doing anything. These days, counterjungling is most prominently about stealing the major buffs (blue/red) given the relatively quick respawn timer of the smaller camps, but you can still go about taking the enemy camps if you have proper warding and lane pressure (and feel like you can donate all your camps to your laners). In silver soloQ, enemy lanes don't react very quickly to jungle invades. In general, if you don't have strong lane cooperation for ganks, showing pressure is more then enough (if the enemy lanes are afraid of being ganked, you're still setting them back), or else crippling the enemy jungler, which many early game junglers can do. You can farm if you're a carry jungler (Noc, Xin, Nasus), but I would recommend learning how to counterjungle. As for possible junglers that sorta fall into both: Vi, Hecarim, Trundle (highly situational given CDR+his pillar is his main selling point now [since they removed shred on Baron and Dragon], which makes him great for poke comps), Fiddlesticks, Diana (yes she can), Skarner, Shyvanna, and Dr. Mundo (though early Mundo clear is rather risky). Oh, and Udyr. You might even try out Taric in the jungle. He's actually hilariously good at it once you get through the initial clear and pick up some mana items. I would even expand this to four types of junglers, though these usually can be one of the other kinds as well. Objective-oriented junglers. People play Nasus a lot like this, but Elise or Vi or Zac could be used similarly. Anything that can take down Dragon/Baron very quickly could fall under this category. Unless this is what you mean by farm-oriented. Then I'm just saying the same thing as that. =P
Thanks for all the really helpful advice so far, I read every post up to this one. I guess I need to improve on being more efficient with my jungling and decision making. My champion pool for jungling is around 10, but I'll pick 2-3 different ones to really focus on. I guess I'll start buying more wards too, so I can learn to counterjungle. thanks xd
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EPT
