EPT[Patch 3.05.2: April Fools] League of Legends General Disc…
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On April 07 2013 07:27 TheYango wrote: Korean drafts generally feel more cohesive than Western drafts, outside of a few exceptional teams (e.g. Gambit). It belies a much better overall understanding of how the game works. Right before reading this I watched IG vs WE game 1 and I'm currently quite puzzled about the "cohesive" part. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23463 Posts
lulu has a lot going for her though with all that cc and utility and wave clear and I would say the stronger pick for mid/late game overall. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Janna still has 56% winrate in ranked, #1 overall. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 07 2013 08:46 Shikyo wrote: I think Janna's pretty underappreciated. Yes, SHE cannot bully as well, but she gives the ADC the shield and the bonus damage and the movespeed to bully the opponent themselves, generally dealing more damage than if the support was the one bullying. Especially good on ADCs that are able to make things happen and don't just get backed away from(Vayne, Ashe?). However, in solo queue you need the coordination most people don't have - You can shield them and they will do nothing with it, or you shield yourself and have some mediocre harrass, or you just protect your ADC from damage with the shield. Janna still has 56% winrate in ranked, #1 overall. Yea Janna is pretty broken in soloQ. She was broken before the buffs already IMO. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
Doesn't matter if the enemy laners can't bully Janna, and plenty of AD/support combos simply cannot do a single thing against a Janna lane. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Just picked Wukong top into AD Tryndamere. I tried to engage on him before he had more than a little Fury to force heals or prevent high crit%. With a bit more than 50 Fury he did 4 crits to me in 5 autos. Sure, it's RNG, sure, he won't have that happen every game (far from it). But to be on the receiving end of this is still quite the bullshit as a player (and he didn't have crit runes either, classic AD/armour/MR/AD page). I could do another post to QQ about Wukong's animations somewhere. :< | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 07 2013 09:02 Shikyo wrote: That post's already 100% QQ so I don't see why it's posted here and why you'd need another post. If you're playing it out properly I have no idea how you're getting hit by 5 autos by him to be honest considering how Wukong's harrass works. Also I really will doubt that without a replay as I'm quite sure Riot doesn't even have a true RNG in this game. I am 99% sure Riot uses a Markov chain of some sort for computing crits - and I doubt they would make it that you have 0% chance to get X consecutive crits. | ||
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
On April 07 2013 08:46 Shikyo wrote: I think Janna's pretty underappreciated. Yes, SHE cannot bully as well, but she gives the ADC the shield and the bonus damage and the movespeed to bully the opponent themselves, generally dealing more damage than if the support was the one bullying. Especially good on ADCs that are able to make things happen and don't just get backed away from(Vayne, Ashe?). However, in solo queue you need the coordination most people don't have - You can shield them and they will do nothing with it, or you shield yourself and have some mediocre harrass, or you just protect your ADC from damage with the shield. Janna still has 56% winrate in ranked, #1 overall. Yeah, I never really saw why Janna fell out of popularity. I find Janna/MF to be pretty freaking scary, harassing almost for free, hard to engage them, etc. Apart from the wave clear argument brought up a few posts ago, Janna also has one of the best ults in the game (in/vs certain team comps). Giving everyone global ms and having a large amount of passive ms also helps for getting around the map (warding more quickly, possible ganks with Q/W/R). I don't even see how she can get bullied all that hard (minus lanes like Sona) unless you're paired with an Ad with weak early presence. Then you can just forget about having a bot lane, as your AD probably doesn't even know what you do. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
also wtf phage slows for 2 seconds and mallet only slows for 1.5, ok.... but odd | ||
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
On April 07 2013 09:10 sob3k wrote: I think janna is strong support, great shield timing and Q's will win you so many trades in lane and she counters leona and shit with obscene disengage and her lategame is so strong. I just think W max over E is flat out retarded. You should be picking another support if thats what you want, her W is really not made for harass, its range is too damn short and there are so many better options if you want to get aggressive like that in lane. also wtf phage slows for 2 seconds and mallet only slows for 1.5, ok.... but odd Agreeing with this. You pick Janna for the protection and let your strong AD do the work of harass. The rest of her kit is to make sure that your AD does that harass and other stuff uninterrupted. | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
On April 07 2013 08:38 TheYango wrote: W's range is garbage though. It has decent damage and the slow scales nicely, but 600 range is quite restrictive and puts you in certain danger. The advantage of W max is the added ms if they focus you and the slow and damage if they focus your adc, it is weak for poking but in trade scenarios it is really good. E max removes all pressure that Janna can put out and is imo the reason why she is so unpopular with all the aggressive carry fotm currently going on in bot lane. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
Just wait for people to realize Nami op as fk. People don't know about dat fish water damage. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On April 07 2013 09:02 Shikyo wrote: That post's already 100% QQ so I don't see why it's posted here and why you'd need another post. If you're playing it out properly I have no idea how you're getting hit by 5 autos by him to be honest considering how Wukong's harrass works. Also I really will doubt that without a replay as I'm quite sure Riot doesn't even have a true RNG in this game. The Wukong's animations part was a reference to Teut's post just above saying that Lulu's actually hindered by animations (Q's pretty slow and iirc W uses a projectile when cast on an enemy), since Wu's animations are amonst the worst in the game. x) As for the crit I dunno if it's strictly a Markov chain, but it's not "true" RNG, nope, and it should reduce the chances of successive crits. It's just seeing a Trynd picked reminded me of that discussion, and getting hit by so many crits a guy who had ~20% max reminded me of why it doesn't matter if the guy's smart or not, having something rely on RNG so much is bound to make bullshit happen sooner or later. x) (For example in the GP spotlight Phreak getting 2 crits with 2 back-to-back Parrrleys and destroying his opponent thanks to the 4% mastery.) About the support discussion I'm really having trouble with the non-play maker supports, like Janna. If your AD makes plays himself you can support him and stuff, that I get, but if he doesn't (or doesn't have a champ well-suited for that, for example Graves or pre-6 Trist) then what are you supposed to do to make the lane "win"? You can't engage, and you have weak poke and low-range harass, so how do you create pressure? You'd easily get thrown out of a bush if their support walks up to you and their AD isn't far, unless yours positions himself so that he'll be able to engage theirs if they waste cc/abilities on you; so in the end you're still reliant on your AD. How do you try to influence the lane by yourself? | ||
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
On April 07 2013 09:46 Alaric wrote: The Wukong's animations part was a reference to Teut's post just above saying that Lulu's actually hindered by animations (Q's pretty slow and iirc W uses a projectile when cast on an enemy), since Wu's animations are amonst the worst in the game. x) As for the crit I dunno if it's strictly a Markov chain, but it's not "true" RNG, nope, and it should reduce the chances of successive crits. It's just seeing a Trynd picked reminded me of that discussion, and getting hit by so many crits a guy who had ~20% max reminded me of why it doesn't matter if the guy's smart or not, having something rely on RNG so much is bound to make bullshit happen sooner or later. x) (For example in the GP spotlight Phreak getting 2 crits with 2 back-to-back Parrrleys and destroying his opponent thanks to the 4% mastery.) About the support discussion I'm really having trouble with the non-play maker supports, like Janna. If your AD makes plays himself you can support him and stuff, that I get, but if he doesn't (or doesn't have a champ well-suited for that, for example Graves or pre-6 Trist) then what are you supposed to do to make the lane "win"? You can't engage, and you have weak poke and low-range harass, so how do you create pressure? You'd easily get thrown out of a bush if their support walks up to you and their AD isn't far, unless yours positions himself so that he'll be able to engage theirs if they waste cc/abilities on you; so in the end you're still reliant on your AD. How do you try to influence the lane by yourself? I realized this recently, but if you're the support, it's your job to dictate how the lane will play out. What this means is that either during champ select or at the start of the game you tell them what you expect them to do. You look at the opponent's lane and decide what kind of playstyle to adapt based on your bot lane. Sure, it's possible that he'll ignore what you say, or fail at harassing, but you're much more likely to have cooperation if he does listen (and I find it much more likely that he'll listen, when a support takes charge I've noticed that people will listen quite a bit). | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On April 07 2013 09:46 Alaric wrote: About the support discussion I'm really having trouble with the non-play maker supports, like Janna. If your AD makes plays himself you can support him and stuff, that I get, but if he doesn't (or doesn't have a champ well-suited for that, for example Graves or pre-6 Trist) then what are you supposed to do to make the lane "win"? You can't engage, and you have weak poke and low-range harass, so how do you create pressure? You'd easily get thrown out of a bush if their support walks up to you and their AD isn't far, unless yours positions himself so that he'll be able to engage theirs if they waste cc/abilities on you; so in the end you're still reliant on your AD. How do you try to influence the lane by yourself? You tell them to harass if they should be harassing. Other than that you dont. You play reactively, shield all incoming damage, maybe get some auto harass in if its safe, and then you just support/disrupt ganks and engages. You dont make plays unless you see like a flash monsoon into your tower. You just have to go with what the jungler and AD are doing and make it work. Later game you can catch people out with Q or hold people with permaslow until your team can pick them, but you really are support. You play based on how everyone else plays. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Oh, he just did it again. If you stun Zac during his ult, he'll keep on moving. Not just vertically, but horizontally as well (he went out of the turret range like that). Strange. Edit: to be clearer, he has 75% Tenacity during his ult (what kind of bullshit is that? O_o), but even during the cc, he'll keep moving. I think I'll start hating on that champ, just because he's stomping all over Olaf's niche of "build tanky and rely on base damage and CC immunity to dive their team", except he has gap closers, cc, and initiation power on top of it. Poor Olaf has been raped hard enough as is with the ult and Q nerfs, no need to worsen it with a champ that fulfills his role better in every domain 'cept for early/midgame burst. :< | ||
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Tal
United Kingdom1018 Posts
On April 07 2013 06:12 ticklishmusic wrote: Support is annoying for me because I feel like I have a good grasp of when to go in and where not to go in but my ad's often don't, or they just don't know how two champs work together. Like yesterday we were Thresh/Varus, and I spotted the enemy MF/Taric in the riverbrush. So I throw the lantern by my AD, and Q at the same time, yank MF out and drop the box. Obviously Taric stuns me... and then I die. Varus autos once or twice, then dies. The AD complains "why did you go in". I have to explain it literally step by step. I grab MF, Taric reflexively burns his stun on me, wasting their only CC. Varus can fire off a pointblank ulti and W at MF and then just kill her. I shielded Varus preemptively, and he can reposition from danger by grabbing it as well.I saved my E in case MF ults, or to slow her once she begins to escape. My old AD DuoQ partner and I were so in sync as Leona/ someone else that wen I went in for my WEQ combo he'd be able to proc sunlight all 3 times. The extra 100+ damage from the 3rd proc/ auto was so fucking good. Don't get that kind of awesomeness much anymore. :/ Also, I get really annoyed when AD starts telling me when to do my job-- ward this, ward that, go stand in that bush, etc. I DON'T TELL YOU WHAT DO, SO STOP BOTHERING ME. In that situation I would have pinged MF twice. Your AD might still have ignored you, but its amazing the difference it makes. About the Thresh discussion, I think he's a bit too good. I feel like I can make mistakes (missing skills, bad positioning), or my team can make mistakes (not using the lantern), and things still go pretty well. Whereas if I play someone like Sona I am always a split second from letting my whole team down. | ||
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