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On April 03 2013 01:18 AsnSensation wrote:
the funny thing is I get the impression that all those fanboys on reddit don't even realize that this is not NA vs EU only and how crucial it is to send the best team possible to even have a tiny chance of securing that extra spot.
Again, sending just 5 players from one established team (like Gambit, Curse) would surely result in the best chance to win this spot. Which makes all of this all-star talk here "fan-boyish".
What is the likelyhood that Taiwan will send the whole of TPA? If they do they will surely have the best chances of winning it. And ironically they would secure the spot of another SEA team that has nothing to do with TPA. :D
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BTW: 30 armour is worth 600 gold and 10% cdr is worth more than 300 gold so it should work out slightly better but the slot efficiency went down
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On April 03 2013 01:39 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 01:34 Redox wrote:On April 03 2013 00:26 Gahlo wrote:On April 02 2013 22:47 Redox wrote:On April 02 2013 22:42 Klive5ive wrote:On April 02 2013 22:34 Redox wrote:
I dont get why everyone is so excited about the whole all-star thing. I mean we all know that pro LoL is not about randomly throwing together some individuals, but having a real team with synergy, common strategies etc. Any real, established team should beat any "all-star" team 9 out of 10 times. So in the end this is just about which region manages to send the most amount of players from one team, ideally all players from one team.
But Europe will send a mix of Gambit/EG players, which will never ever work. Its the stupidest thing ever. I mean if they did something like that for fun, that would be cool. But mixing such show/fun games with the competetive side of things by giving out an extra spot at the finals for this is just retarded. Synergy comes from being good and it's not like they've never met each other before. How many times have we seen a sub bring an initial boost to a team - fresh strategies and ideas are often a good thing. They will feel they have a job to do and will have confidence from the fact that they've been selected. And the prize of an extra region spot is SO good that you can guarantee the players will take it dam seriously and turn up at that tournament determined to win. Personally I can't wait and I bet the games will be very high level. If you bring in one new player into an established team of 4 it can be alright. Well if that one is not the jungler. Other than that, forget about it. Especially if you think of gambit players, who are just used to listening to calls from Alex_Ich. I dont expect any synergy between EG and Gambit players. Also, why would any Gambit player care about this extra spot? Sorry, but with this extra spot been given out for such random shit the whole thing is just a mockery of competetive LoL. In the MLB, the winner of the All Star game(also voted in by fans) gets home field advantage for the finals. Well I have trouble anyway to see American professional sports as real sports and not just a show. You buy yourself into the league, cant get relegated, many meaningless games etc. Would never happen in Europe.  The amount of European sports elitism seething from this post is unprecedented.
To be fair, the MLB is kind of a big joke. They don't even have salary caps and play like 8,000 games a season.
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On April 03 2013 01:40 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 01:18 AsnSensation wrote:
the funny thing is I get the impression that all those fanboys on reddit don't even realize that this is not NA vs EU only and how crucial it is to send the best team possible to even have a tiny chance of securing that extra spot.
Again, sending just 5 players from one established team (like Gambit, Curse) would surely result in the best chance to win this spot. Which makes all of this all-star talk here "fan-boyish". What is the likelyhood that Taiwan will send the whole of TPA? If they do they will surely have the best chances of winning it. And ironically they would secure the spot of another SEA team that has nothing to do with TPA. :D
im pretty sure I read on reddit that 3 players from one team is max and I'd trust riot to tell something similar to the other regions to avoid having "allstar na/eu" vs WE or TPA
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Korean:
Madlife
Pray
Ambition
Insec
Expression/Shy
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On April 03 2013 01:56 skykh wrote:
Korean:
Madlife
Pray
Ambition(he is much better then rapidstar )
Insec
Expression/Shy
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Grats on banhammer Yango ^^
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On April 03 2013 01:34 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 00:26 Gahlo wrote:On April 02 2013 22:47 Redox wrote:On April 02 2013 22:42 Klive5ive wrote:On April 02 2013 22:34 Redox wrote:
I dont get why everyone is so excited about the whole all-star thing. I mean we all know that pro LoL is not about randomly throwing together some individuals, but having a real team with synergy, common strategies etc. Any real, established team should beat any "all-star" team 9 out of 10 times. So in the end this is just about which region manages to send the most amount of players from one team, ideally all players from one team.
But Europe will send a mix of Gambit/EG players, which will never ever work. Its the stupidest thing ever. I mean if they did something like that for fun, that would be cool. But mixing such show/fun games with the competetive side of things by giving out an extra spot at the finals for this is just retarded. Synergy comes from being good and it's not like they've never met each other before. How many times have we seen a sub bring an initial boost to a team - fresh strategies and ideas are often a good thing. They will feel they have a job to do and will have confidence from the fact that they've been selected. And the prize of an extra region spot is SO good that you can guarantee the players will take it dam seriously and turn up at that tournament determined to win. Personally I can't wait and I bet the games will be very high level. If you bring in one new player into an established team of 4 it can be alright. Well if that one is not the jungler. Other than that, forget about it. Especially if you think of gambit players, who are just used to listening to calls from Alex_Ich. I dont expect any synergy between EG and Gambit players. Also, why would any Gambit player care about this extra spot? Sorry, but with this extra spot been given out for such random shit the whole thing is just a mockery of competetive LoL. In the MLB, the winner of the All Star game(also voted in by fans) gets home field advantage for the finals. Well I have trouble anyway to see American professional sports as real sports and not just a show. You buy yourself into the league, cant get relegated, many meaningless games etc. Would never happen in Europe.
Well, an American game company is going to parrot American sports. Not much surprise there.
On April 03 2013 01:45 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 01:39 onlywonderboy wrote:On April 03 2013 01:34 Redox wrote:On April 03 2013 00:26 Gahlo wrote:On April 02 2013 22:47 Redox wrote:On April 02 2013 22:42 Klive5ive wrote:On April 02 2013 22:34 Redox wrote:
I dont get why everyone is so excited about the whole all-star thing. I mean we all know that pro LoL is not about randomly throwing together some individuals, but having a real team with synergy, common strategies etc. Any real, established team should beat any "all-star" team 9 out of 10 times. So in the end this is just about which region manages to send the most amount of players from one team, ideally all players from one team.
But Europe will send a mix of Gambit/EG players, which will never ever work. Its the stupidest thing ever. I mean if they did something like that for fun, that would be cool. But mixing such show/fun games with the competetive side of things by giving out an extra spot at the finals for this is just retarded. Synergy comes from being good and it's not like they've never met each other before. How many times have we seen a sub bring an initial boost to a team - fresh strategies and ideas are often a good thing. They will feel they have a job to do and will have confidence from the fact that they've been selected. And the prize of an extra region spot is SO good that you can guarantee the players will take it dam seriously and turn up at that tournament determined to win. Personally I can't wait and I bet the games will be very high level. If you bring in one new player into an established team of 4 it can be alright. Well if that one is not the jungler. Other than that, forget about it. Especially if you think of gambit players, who are just used to listening to calls from Alex_Ich. I dont expect any synergy between EG and Gambit players. Also, why would any Gambit player care about this extra spot? Sorry, but with this extra spot been given out for such random shit the whole thing is just a mockery of competetive LoL. In the MLB, the winner of the All Star game(also voted in by fans) gets home field advantage for the finals. Well I have trouble anyway to see American professional sports as real sports and not just a show. You buy yourself into the league, cant get relegated, many meaningless games etc. Would never happen in Europe. The amount of European sports elitism seething from this post is unprecedented. To be fair, the MLB is kind of a big joke. They don't even have salary caps and play like 8,000 games a season.
There's a soft cap where you have to pay extra over a certain amount, and it increases exponentially year after year if you stay above it, iirc. The super huge # of game is because MLB is so baylife. 8D
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United States1321 Posts
I wrote this in the Reddit thread imploring people to vote based on stats (in regards to NA). How do people here feel about it?
What I wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +For a community that after a couple of years finally realized stats don't mean anything in solo q, how can you suddenly think they mean something in a style of play (high level, organized 5s play) based even less around fairly arbitrary individual performance indicators such as KDA.
And the stats being presented here aren't even good stats. Here's why EVERY one of the stats you presented is incredibly flawed.
KDA - The classic stat that everyone can look at it and understand, but that doesn't really tell you anything. Let's take Cop, who has an incredibly high KDA while playing for the team with the best record and two of the most consistently dangerous solo lanes in LCS. Cop does not have to get kills for his team to win teamfights, is usually the secondary or even third threat in teamfights, and his team almost always wins teamfights. Makes it pretty easy to rack up tons of assists (second in assists and only fourth in kills) while not getting killed. What does this tell us about Cop? He plays for the best LCS team and manages to avoid dying because his team runs two threats from their solo lanes and have the most aggressive jungler in NA LCS. It doesn't say a thing about if he is the best AD or not.
GPM/Avg Gold - This is the same stat, just Avg Gold is biased by game length, so get rid of it. GPM is much more of a playstyle indicator/team performance indicator than a skill indicator. Excluding Wildturtle, who has an incredibly small sample size - every GPM leader plays for either Crs or Dignitas, the teams with the two best records. AKA the teams with the most map control, dragons, barons, won teamfights, etc... What is GPM telling me except that you play for a team that wins?
Versatility - Besides the fact that an All Star game doesn't require much in the way of champion diversity to excel at, (it's a format completely catered to one hit wonder strats/champion picks/etc...) you only award somebody versatility points if they won with that champion? Huh? Again, the bias towards Crs/Dig/TSM/and CLG is hilarious. But even besides the bias towards teams that win more, it just doesn't make sense. Since Doublelift's TEAM hasn't won when he played Ezreal yet, he suddenly isn't a good Ezreal player and that shouldn't be counted towards his champion pool? Absurd.
Normalised KDA - Maybe the worst stat here. Suddenly the best team in the LCS (Crs) has the worst performing players at mid, top, and the jungle. Why? Oh, because Cop doesn't die a lot and has an inflated KDA, now Voyboy, Nyjacky, and SV are THE worst "normalized" performers in LCS. It doesn't make sense to normalise KDA like this because any players KDA is a function of his teammate's play as well as his own. Why do they get punished for taking pressure off of and defending their carries well? These stats sure do want me to believe that Cop is far and away the most gifted LoL player in North America.
KDA Spread - First of all, if you wanted to display this stat, the correct way to do it would have been highlighting the players with the smallest percentage swings. Highlighting the highest and lowest KDAs of each role has nothing to do with the consistency of the players. Also, any problems with KDA or bias towards winning teams discussed earlier would apply here even if the stat was displayed correctly.
---
In summary, stats don't mean much in LoL. They don't in solo queue, they do even less in professional level competitive play.
While some stats may be able to influence our understanding of player skill, the extremely basic and biased stats provided here do very little to show you anything meaningful about the players. We just don't have intelligent, advanced statistics yet for League of Legends - and acting like KDA/Average Gold/etc... tells us anything is a detriment to ever seeing a proper usage of advanced stats.
My 2 cents.
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ppl care about this way too much, I voted for NickWu because he's my boy and I didn't want him to get 0 votes. NA is losing no matter what prepare your bodies.
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United States1321 Posts
On April 03 2013 02:07 Slusher wrote:
ppl care about this way too much, I voted for NickWu because he's my boy and I didn't want him to get 0 votes. NA is losing no matter what prepare your bodies.
Maybe. I think an All Star game is probably the best opportunity for an NA team to win anything against the Asian scene though. While Asian players do individually outclass NA players at pretty much every position, their larger advantage is in team coordination and practice. A pick up team of the best NA players competes much more favorably with a pickup team of the best Asian players than Curse does vs World Elite or some other matchup of complete rosters.
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If NA beats any team other than EU in the allstar tournament it will be the most amazing thing to happen in League history. Unless SEA is separated from Taiwan or something.
And NA will only beat EU if the voting really makes it EG+Diamond & Edward. Ugh, I'm thinking about that. yellowpete plus Edward sounds like such a shit botlane. Not that either of them is bad I just don't see any synergy in that lane at all lol.
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On April 03 2013 01:31 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 01:30 overt wrote:On April 03 2013 01:18 AsnSensation wrote:
the funny thing is I get the impression that all those fanboys on reddit don't even realize that this is not NA vs EU only and how crucial it is to send the best team possible to even have a tiny chance of securing that extra spot.
Although I have my doubts any combination of allstar would have a chance if china sends something like
pdd
illusion
zztai
weixai
fzzf If I didn't live in America I would probably put money on that team. Wx is unquestioned best ADC in the world. Zz1tai is probably the best mid laner. PDD is in the conversation for best top laner in the world. People really don't have enough respect for how much talent China has. Always paying too much attention to Korea. Well, it's really hard to get a good grasp of the Chinese scene. KR is way more accessible.
I feel this way too. My favorite teams are W.E. and TPA, but I really only see TPA players ever stream, and even that is rare now. I don't think I've ever seen the chinese players anywhere but the most important of tournaments so its hard to get their scene apart from their best teams.
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as an aside I don't really know how I feel about Pr0lly moving to CoL from his side of things. I mean to say, I feel like velocity with him on the roster feels like it has a better chance of making the summer season than CoL w/o him on the roster, like even CoL's best player NickWu(admitted bias) isn't a huge step up from Cris(talking skills only here) I just don't like the move I'd have stayed.
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On April 02 2013 14:53 gtrsrs wrote:
are you guys serious
velocity esports guys
velocity esports
and yes he is interested in joining our roster but he also told me he had a reputation in sc2 and i wanted some more info. thanks!
This should tell you all you need to know about Deezer.
You don't even have to watch the whole thing. The first 5 minutes will tell you what you need to know.
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United States1321 Posts
I really feel like the TL Asian scene fanboyism is a bit over the top. Right now, the Korean/SEA/and Chinese scenes are stronger than NA and to a lesser degree Europe. No doubt about it. However, they have not shown themselves to be worlds apart. In addition, LCS only serves to close the gap between the scenes by providing a more structured environment for NA/European scenes to practice with, something that brings them more in line with the eSports infrastructure of the East. And again, mixing up players into All Star teams helps close the gap between regions/teams by erasing much of the team skill that the Asian teams have built through incredibly amounts of practice.
I don't know if it's the Starcraft "Koreans are god" bias seeping in or just the old "we are holders of elite knowledge/opinions" TL mindset, but I think people are universally and hivemind(ally?) over-exaggerating the skill of the Asian scene.
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I feel the same Slusher. Looks like a more shortsighted money grab than anything else. Unless there's some terms we aren't aware of that changes the situation
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I really fear the combination of,
Top: PDD
Jungle: ClearLove
Middle: Zz1tai
AD Carry: Uzi
Support: Fzzf
I feel like the Chinese players in general have by far the strongest laning phase out of any of the regions. Uzi was literally the scariest thing I've ever seen, and I feel odd whenever people mention Weixiao as untouchable AD carry amongst his peers. It's true that Weixiao is a cut above most of the famous AD carries, but I genuinely felt all hope drain from me when I watched Uzi just stomp both PraY and Imp to the ground. I mean these guys went toe-to-toe with the likes of Bebe, or even came out on top, and are generally regarded as the best AD carries Korea has to offer.
Funny thing is, even if China takes that extra-spot for S3 World Championship, I don't think the rest of the world will get to see Uzi play unless he moves to a more competitive team. If Uzi doesn't get voted in for this All Stars tournament, many people will only talk about Weixiao whenever the topic of the best AD carry comes up.
I like the following line-up for Korea, knowing full well it'll never materialize since they don't have the backing of the masses,
Top: Expession
Jungle: inSec
Middle: Faker
AD Carry: Piglet
Support: PoohManDu
I just want Expession to showcase his skills to the world because his team will never surmount to anything in the near future. I'm not sure if inSec is the best jungler in the world, but he sure is the most entertaining out of the players I've seen. Ambition is probably the smarter choice for the mid-lane, but I feel Faker should be given a chance. Easyhoon would be a fun pick as well in the mid-lane.
Imp once mentioned that Piglet and PoohManDu are the strongest bottom-lane duo in Korea right now, so it'll be fun to watch them try their luck against Weixiao (I'm predicting Uzi won't get to represent his region). Weixiao slaughtered them during his ventures in the Korean solo-que, so here's there chance to take revenge.
However, I'm guessing the following line-up will represent the Korean scene,
Top: Shy
Jungle: inSec
Middle: Ambition
AD Carry: PraY
Support: Madlife
Boring.
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United States23745 Posts
On April 03 2013 01:45 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 01:39 onlywonderboy wrote:On April 03 2013 01:34 Redox wrote:On April 03 2013 00:26 Gahlo wrote:On April 02 2013 22:47 Redox wrote:On April 02 2013 22:42 Klive5ive wrote:On April 02 2013 22:34 Redox wrote:
I dont get why everyone is so excited about the whole all-star thing. I mean we all know that pro LoL is not about randomly throwing together some individuals, but having a real team with synergy, common strategies etc. Any real, established team should beat any "all-star" team 9 out of 10 times. So in the end this is just about which region manages to send the most amount of players from one team, ideally all players from one team.
But Europe will send a mix of Gambit/EG players, which will never ever work. Its the stupidest thing ever. I mean if they did something like that for fun, that would be cool. But mixing such show/fun games with the competetive side of things by giving out an extra spot at the finals for this is just retarded. Synergy comes from being good and it's not like they've never met each other before. How many times have we seen a sub bring an initial boost to a team - fresh strategies and ideas are often a good thing. They will feel they have a job to do and will have confidence from the fact that they've been selected. And the prize of an extra region spot is SO good that you can guarantee the players will take it dam seriously and turn up at that tournament determined to win. Personally I can't wait and I bet the games will be very high level. If you bring in one new player into an established team of 4 it can be alright. Well if that one is not the jungler. Other than that, forget about it. Especially if you think of gambit players, who are just used to listening to calls from Alex_Ich. I dont expect any synergy between EG and Gambit players. Also, why would any Gambit player care about this extra spot? Sorry, but with this extra spot been given out for such random shit the whole thing is just a mockery of competetive LoL. In the MLB, the winner of the All Star game(also voted in by fans) gets home field advantage for the finals. Well I have trouble anyway to see American professional sports as real sports and not just a show. You buy yourself into the league, cant get relegated, many meaningless games etc. Would never happen in Europe. The amount of European sports elitism seething from this post is unprecedented. To be fair, the MLB is kind of a big joke. They don't even have salary caps and play like 8,000 games a season.
I agree the salary cap thing is really dumb, but the number of games is just part of the sport. Of course it would be dumb to play that many games of soccer (football if you prefer) but it makes sense for baseball. More importantly now we can call get hyped for the KR v CH all-star team match.
On April 03 2013 02:07 Slusher wrote:
ppl care about this way too much, I voted for NickWu because he's my boy and I didn't want him to get 0 votes. NA is losing no matter what prepare your bodies.
Doesn't mean I don't want them to put up a fight :p
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United States47024 Posts
On April 03 2013 01:18 AsnSensation wrote:
Although I have my doubts any combination of allstar would have a chance if china sends something like
pdd
illusion
zztai
weixai
fzzf
Illusion is a weaker jungler than Clearlove. I actually think he's the weakest player on iG overall.
I'm also not sure if I'd rate Fzzf as being the best support in China. Before he retired, it'd be Tabe for sure, but even after, I don't think Fzzf is a clear #1.
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EPT
