On March 26 2013 13:48 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: no Varus thread, i'm gonna start practicing him. Skill order, runes/masteries suggestions? Thinking either BotRK, zeal, BF midgame core, or bt -> shiv?
after watching Thorin's latest Grilled Interview with Dyrus, I'm gonna work on a legit stable of ADs and actually focus on fitting them into lane matchups and team comps accurately, and mastering them mechanically. What do you guys think of this list?
MF, Cait, and Ashe, thenVarus or Vayne or Trist
also think people are sleeping on Ashe right now. Her base AS buff was significant, I can really feel it when I'm playing her during laning phase, and after PD/BotRK
I dont think Ashe can be a "significant" part of the meta so long as Zed and Khazix are in the game in their current forms. Also possibly even the FOTM assassins that lie in wait behind those two after the inevitable nerfs + Jarvan (even Kog is borderline in the Jarvan games).
Am I probably on the more pessimistic side? Yes. But I don't see Ashe turning into ASHE unless basically every 100-0 combo is eliminated from the game. There at too many gapclosers that make her kiting power too weak (honestly in some situations tumble is better), and she is not Kog, so you can't just "protect the Ashe". The one situation I do see Ashe as strong (and obviously stronger now) is when you see the other team is building a poke comp (I.E. They have picked Nid, Cait, etc and banned Malphite), you are at one of your later picks, and still need that hard engage because you have like Volibear/Singed or something.
how are zed khaz different from diana,akali, talon,fizz or even bruisers like irelia? assasins were always in this game and that didnt stop ashe from being viable back then
Well they are different because they are stronger. I would say Zed/Khaz is a tier right now, followed by Diana/Akali. Every champ in both those tiers makes Ashe nearly impossible (at the very least sub-optimal) to play. And, of course, the difference between all those champs and characters like Irelia/Jax is that Irelia/Jax USE AUTOATTACKS which means they need a period of time to do their damage. Time where you can CC/Kill/Kite them.
I would like to have the counterplay to Zed's REQIgniteBotRK explained.
Why is BotRK rushed on Zed? I see it so many times, not really a huge fan of it. I would think Brut+BT rush is better.
Easy buildpath makes for a smoother powercurve. Active gives a pseudo 4th damage spell and make it easier to trap runners.
There's also the inherent synergy with the way his ulti works as a delayed re-application of damage dealt. BotRK does more damage at high enemy HP and less at low enemy HP, but Zed's Death Mark triggers toward the end of your combo, finishing off the target and circumventing BotRK's "weakness".
On March 26 2013 13:48 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: no Varus thread, i'm gonna start practicing him. Skill order, runes/masteries suggestions? Thinking either BotRK, zeal, BF midgame core, or bt -> shiv?
after watching Thorin's latest Grilled Interview with Dyrus, I'm gonna work on a legit stable of ADs and actually focus on fitting them into lane matchups and team comps accurately, and mastering them mechanically. What do you guys think of this list?
MF, Cait, and Ashe, thenVarus or Vayne or Trist
also think people are sleeping on Ashe right now. Her base AS buff was significant, I can really feel it when I'm playing her during laning phase, and after PD/BotRK
I dont think Ashe can be a "significant" part of the meta so long as Zed and Khazix are in the game in their current forms. Also possibly even the FOTM assassins that lie in wait behind those two after the inevitable nerfs + Jarvan (even Kog is borderline in the Jarvan games).
Am I probably on the more pessimistic side? Yes. But I don't see Ashe turning into ASHE unless basically every 100-0 combo is eliminated from the game. There at too many gapclosers that make her kiting power too weak (honestly in some situations tumble is better), and she is not Kog, so you can't just "protect the Ashe". The one situation I do see Ashe as strong (and obviously stronger now) is when you see the other team is building a poke comp (I.E. They have picked Nid, Cait, etc and banned Malphite), you are at one of your later picks, and still need that hard engage because you have like Volibear/Singed or something.
how are zed khaz different from diana,akali, talon,fizz or even bruisers like irelia? assasins were always in this game and that didnt stop ashe from being viable back then
Well they are different because they are stronger. I would say Zed/Khaz is a tier right now, followed by Diana/Akali. Every champ in both those tiers makes Ashe nearly impossible (at the very least sub-optimal) to play. And, of course, the difference between all those champs and characters like Irelia/Jax is that Irelia/Jax USE AUTOATTACKS which means they need a period of time to do their damage. Time where you can CC/Kill/Kite them.
I would like to have the counterplay to Zed's REQIgniteBotRK explained.
Why is BotRK rushed on Zed? I see it so many times, not really a huge fan of it. I would think Brut+BT rush is better.
Easy buildpath makes for a smoother powercurve. Active gives a pseudo 4th damage spell and make it easier to trap runners.
There's also the inherent synergy with the way his ulti works as a delayed re-application of damage dealt. BotRK does more damage at high enemy HP and less at low enemy HP, but Zed's Death Mark triggers toward the end of your combo, finishing off the target and circumventing BotRK's "weakness".
Right. I'm also getting to the point where I think about SPL and think "wait does League have a team tournament in Korea?" Then facepalm so hard I end up lobotomized in my bed across the room. Sleeeeep.
On March 26 2013 17:49 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: i also think that preventing disengages is the #1 best thing arrow can do. i don't think any champion can do that better than ashe
Yeah, Ashe is amazing at that. But problem with Ashe is w.o any build in streroid she can't get enough kills to be fed in late game. Also without an escape ability, people can just all in her and she can't do anything about it. I really hope that pro teams will work out a team comp that can protect Ashe, as well as make every Ashe arrow counts. That would be a feast to watch.
On March 26 2013 14:39 UniversalSnip wrote: i still think it would be better if we didn't have OP guides from players who aren't extremely good. it's illogical to prefer bad information to no information. is it an aesthetic thing, like a thread doesn't feel right without a guide up there?
Disagree. We'd have so few guides if we're going to say "you must be this tall to write a guide." How high is high level enough? Should only pro players write guides? Only diamond elo? Only plat?
If somebody is going to put the effort into writing a good guide, update it based on the input of players better than them, keep it abreast of changes, and create a place for discussion for that champion, I don't care if they're bronze. Just because they're bronze doesn't mean the information is bad - unless the player is unwilling to take into account feedback and input. It's the effort that counts.
On March 26 2013 14:39 UniversalSnip wrote: i still think it would be better if we didn't have OP guides from players who aren't extremely good. it's illogical to prefer bad information to no information. is it an aesthetic thing, like a thread doesn't feel right without a guide up there?
Disagree. We'd have so few guides if we're going to say "you must be this tall to write a guide."
The disagreement here is that you view this as a problem, where I view it as quality control. Everything else comes out of that difference in viewpoints.
On March 26 2013 14:39 UniversalSnip wrote: i still think it would be better if we didn't have OP guides from players who aren't extremely good. it's illogical to prefer bad information to no information. is it an aesthetic thing, like a thread doesn't feel right without a guide up there?
Disagree. We'd have so few guides if we're going to say "you must be this tall to write a guide."
The disagreement here is that you view this as a problem, where I view it as quality control. Everything else comes out of that difference in viewpoints.
Don't need to be 2000+ elo to write a decent guide.
On March 26 2013 14:39 UniversalSnip wrote: i still think it would be better if we didn't have OP guides from players who aren't extremely good. it's illogical to prefer bad information to no information. is it an aesthetic thing, like a thread doesn't feel right without a guide up there?
Disagree. We'd have so few guides if we're going to say "you must be this tall to write a guide."
The disagreement here is that you view this as a problem, where I view it as quality control. Everything else comes out of that difference in viewpoints.
No, I'm saying that quality isn't a function of player skill, it's a function of effort and willingness use the input of others to improve.
On March 26 2013 10:35 VayneAuthority wrote: reginald is pretty much the only likable person on TSM, met them at pax. rest of them are losers to be frank.
terrible opinion, xpecial is one of the most likable people in league and oddone is 100% genuine 100% of the time. dude has no filter he's just like maplestreet. if he was disinterested it's probably cause he gets worn out of being swarmed by nerds every time he goes in public
regi, on the other hand, is seriously the worst
that just confirms my opinion since pretty much whatever you say is wrong, thank you
xpecial is one of the douchiest people from pre season 1 and before, up there with elementz.
good looking and friendly = douchey to a nerd, i understand it's okay
Xpecial actually was a big dick before Season 1. He had one of the biggest egos in the high ELO pool.
Back before season 1 Elementz was a dick too, but it really was a byproduct of him hanging out with Reginald and playing on his team.
lol, Dan Dinh carrying so hard as heimer, 11-4-12, he's also got like an oddly insane good teamcomp for it too, trundle+darius+hecarim+kennen, super good peel/cc comp, hold um in place while turrets go pew pew.
On March 26 2013 14:39 UniversalSnip wrote: i still think it would be better if we didn't have OP guides from players who aren't extremely good. it's illogical to prefer bad information to no information. is it an aesthetic thing, like a thread doesn't feel right without a guide up there?
Disagree. We'd have so few guides if we're going to say "you must be this tall to write a guide."
The disagreement here is that you view this as a problem, where I view it as quality control. Everything else comes out of that difference in viewpoints.
Don't need to be 2000+ elo to write a decent guide.
My feeling is - by default, the answer should be no. If you're not a proven baller, you shouldn't have the thread headlining guide.
What I think should be allowed is if you want to curate a thread. In your OP you quote other people's content that you think is particularly worthy of attention. If you want to quote your own guide, that's fine too, and it might be from a post right below the top post, but it's just one of many. You don't get to have the guide every new reader takes as representing the cream of TL lol's advice just because you started the thread and you aren't Bronze III. First come first serve makes absolutely no sense.
On March 26 2013 14:39 UniversalSnip wrote: i still think it would be better if we didn't have OP guides from players who aren't extremely good. it's illogical to prefer bad information to no information. is it an aesthetic thing, like a thread doesn't feel right without a guide up there?
Disagree. We'd have so few guides if we're going to say "you must be this tall to write a guide."
The disagreement here is that you view this as a problem, where I view it as quality control. Everything else comes out of that difference in viewpoints.
Thing is, if better players give input in the form of better information, it is quality control.
There's also the issue that nobody has put the effort into making, for example, a Varus thread. Nobody did it, I was looking for one, and so I'm going to make one so that there will be one. I'm not the best at the game, I wouldn't even say that I'm good. However, I do keep one quality throughout competitive games that I play: I bust my ass to know as much as I can about what I do. That way, when I fail, it's because of my own limitations and not because I'm working from unsteady ground.
Don't condescend to me because people like me want to do this and we're not as skilled, do it because I fail to try to provide a knowledge base that I would search for when I try to learn. Either that or make one yourself.
That will be the last I have to say on the subject, as I tried to make that last bit humorous but can only make it feel like it's personal. Well, that and I have some Korea vs. China action to go watch!
On March 26 2013 14:39 UniversalSnip wrote: i still think it would be better if we didn't have OP guides from players who aren't extremely good. it's illogical to prefer bad information to no information. is it an aesthetic thing, like a thread doesn't feel right without a guide up there?
Disagree. We'd have so few guides if we're going to say "you must be this tall to write a guide."
The disagreement here is that you view this as a problem, where I view it as quality control. Everything else comes out of that difference in viewpoints.
Thing is, if better players give input in the form of better information, it is quality control.
Right. And there it is... sitting in the thread. Instead of in the OP somewhere. Do you know what I do when I want something from a champion thread? I pop in, go to the last page, and work backwards until I find a player I know is good basically ripping up all the other content that was in there. That's my guide. If I did it from the front forward, I'd be getting... a worse guide, written by someone who doesn't know as much. It's also less likely to be up to date, which I may have to pick up from context by examining the choices and whether they make more sense now or 6 months ago.
There's also the issue that nobody has put the effort into making, for example, a Varus thread. Nobody did it, I was looking for one, and so I'm going to make one so that there will be one.
^^^^ solution in my last post.
I'm not the best at the game, I wouldn't even say that I'm good.
Well I'm certainly not. I'm not bly who you almost seem to be mixing me up with and I don't pretend to be decent like many of the posters here.
Don't condescend to me because people like me want to do this and we're not as skilled, do it because I fail to try to provide a knowledge base that I would search for when I try to learn. Either that or make one yourself.
doesn't address my point. it actually feels like bait for me to take offense at when you say these ideas are motivated by condescension.
On March 26 2013 14:39 UniversalSnip wrote: i still think it would be better if we didn't have OP guides from players who aren't extremely good. it's illogical to prefer bad information to no information. is it an aesthetic thing, like a thread doesn't feel right without a guide up there?
Disagree. We'd have so few guides if we're going to say "you must be this tall to write a guide."
The disagreement here is that you view this as a problem, where I view it as quality control. Everything else comes out of that difference in viewpoints.
Don't need to be 2000+ elo to write a decent guide.
My feeling is - by default, the answer should be no. If you're not a proven baller, you shouldn't have the thread headlining guide.
What I think should be allowed is if you want to curate a thread. In your OP you quote other people's content that you think is particularly worthy of attention. If you want to quote your own guide, that's fine too, and it might be from a post right below the top post, but it's just one of many. You don't get to have the guide every new reader takes as representing the cream of TL lol's advice just because you started the thread and you aren't Bronze III. First come first serve makes absolutely no sense.
Good thoughts behind champions is exclusive to whatever elo, you're at; and I'm pretty sure if some guy was going around touting triforce + 2pd's is a good build on hecarim, as the OP for a Hecarim guide, it'd be shutdown/revised extremely quickly.
On March 26 2013 14:39 UniversalSnip wrote: i still think it would be better if we didn't have OP guides from players who aren't extremely good. it's illogical to prefer bad information to no information. is it an aesthetic thing, like a thread doesn't feel right without a guide up there?
Disagree. We'd have so few guides if we're going to say "you must be this tall to write a guide."
The disagreement here is that you view this as a problem, where I view it as quality control. Everything else comes out of that difference in viewpoints.
Don't need to be 2000+ elo to write a decent guide.
My feeling is - by default, the answer should be no. If you're not a proven baller, you shouldn't have the thread headlining guide.
What I think should be allowed is if you want to curate a thread. In your OP you quote other people's content that you think is particularly worthy of attention. If you want to quote your own guide, that's fine too, and it might be from a post right below the top post, but it's just one of many. You don't get to have the guide every new reader takes as representing the cream of TL lol's advice just because you started the thread and you aren't Bronze III. First come first serve makes absolutely no sense.
Good thoughts behind champions is exclusive to whatever elo, you're at; and I'm pretty sure if some guy was going around touting triforce + 2pd's is a good build on hecarim, as the OP for a Hecarim guide, it'd be shutdown/revised extremely quickly.
guides written by players who are not unusually good are particularly unlikely to be themselves unusually good. You can argue otherwise, but empirically, that's what I see, and unless I see evidence otherwise, you are not going to convince me on that point. I don't think ordinary goodness is what we should be putting in the headline guides, either. If you want to just fill a page, sure, but if you want to put your best foot forward you only put the content from your community that exceeds expectations in the top slot, which, as you can see, people really want to occupy.
On March 26 2013 14:39 UniversalSnip wrote: i still think it would be better if we didn't have OP guides from players who aren't extremely good. it's illogical to prefer bad information to no information. is it an aesthetic thing, like a thread doesn't feel right without a guide up there?
Disagree. We'd have so few guides if we're going to say "you must be this tall to write a guide."
The disagreement here is that you view this as a problem, where I view it as quality control. Everything else comes out of that difference in viewpoints.
Don't need to be 2000+ elo to write a decent guide.
My feeling is - by default, the answer should be no. If you're not a proven baller, you shouldn't have the thread headlining guide.
What I think should be allowed is if you want to curate a thread. In your OP you quote other people's content that you think is particularly worthy of attention. If you want to quote your own guide, that's fine too, and it might be from a post right below the top post, but it's just one of many. You don't get to have the guide every new reader takes as representing the cream of TL lol's advice just because you started the thread and you aren't Bronze III. First come first serve makes absolutely no sense.
Good thoughts behind champions is exclusive to whatever elo, you're at; and I'm pretty sure if some guy was going around touting triforce + 2pd's is a good build on hecarim, as the OP for a Hecarim guide, it'd be shutdown/revised extremely quickly.
guides written by players who are not unusually good are particularly unlikely to be themselves unusually good. You can argue otherwise, but empirically, that's what I see, and unless I see evidence otherwise, you are not going to convince me on that point. I don't think ordinary goodness is what we should be putting in the headline guides, either. If you want to just fill a page, sure, but if you want to put your best foot forward you only put the content from your community that exceeds expectations in the top slot, which, as you can see, people really want to occupy.
That's assuming a lot, and "unlikely", doesn't mean "unable".
On March 26 2013 14:39 UniversalSnip wrote: i still think it would be better if we didn't have OP guides from players who aren't extremely good. it's illogical to prefer bad information to no information. is it an aesthetic thing, like a thread doesn't feel right without a guide up there?
Disagree. We'd have so few guides if we're going to say "you must be this tall to write a guide."
The disagreement here is that you view this as a problem, where I view it as quality control. Everything else comes out of that difference in viewpoints.
Don't need to be 2000+ elo to write a decent guide.
My feeling is - by default, the answer should be no. If you're not a proven baller, you shouldn't have the thread headlining guide.
What I think should be allowed is if you want to curate a thread. In your OP you quote other people's content that you think is particularly worthy of attention. If you want to quote your own guide, that's fine too, and it might be from a post right below the top post, but it's just one of many. You don't get to have the guide every new reader takes as representing the cream of TL lol's advice just because you started the thread and you aren't Bronze III. First come first serve makes absolutely no sense.
Good thoughts behind champions is exclusive to whatever elo, you're at; and I'm pretty sure if some guy was going around touting triforce + 2pd's is a good build on hecarim, as the OP for a Hecarim guide, it'd be shutdown/revised extremely quickly.
guides written by players who are not unusually good are particularly unlikely to be themselves unusually good. You can argue otherwise, but empirically, that's what I see, and unless I see evidence otherwise, you are not going to convince me on that point. I don't think ordinary goodness is what we should be putting in the headline guides, either. If you want to just fill a page, sure, but if you want to put your best foot forward you only put the content from your community that exceeds expectations in the top slot, which, as you can see, people really want to occupy.
That's assuming a lot, and "unlikely", doesn't mean "unable".
I'm aware it's possible. In fact in the sidebar at the moment you can go to this thread and see exactly what a guide should be. It's exactly the kind of high quality content that gives TL lol big props, and slusher and req are not in challenger. Then you look at the other guides and it's like... oh, lol. There's some other good stuff in there and I'm not going to talk shit about any one particular guide but the overall percentage is dismal.
EPT
