EPT[Patch 3.04: Zac] General Discussion - Page 50
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Slayer91
Ireland23394 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On March 23 2013 01:53 Slayer91 wrote: LOL that black cleaver stacking from tiger dot is pretty crazy actually. BC udyr might be really strong from top but you'll need another source of mana (mana pots or chalice or something) Tear probably wouldn't be too bad since you can just spam switching stances. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On March 22 2013 23:42 Cloud9157 wrote: Can they just give Udyr Quinn's ult? Instead of phoenix stance now, make it so he turns into a phoenix and flies at someone. Make sure its a gap closer, because you need one to be relevant. /toometa Udyr has a gap closer now: Change is intended, when I played him I hardly noticed but I guess it helps. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On March 23 2013 01:57 onlywonderboy wrote: Tear probably wouldn't be too bad since you can just spam switching stances. I could see Tiger udyr benefitting pretty reasonably from Muramana, too, with the amount of free attack speed you get. Chalice or (Glacial -> IBG) might work well too. Chalice feels a little awkward cause it kinda deadends for Udyr though... How MUCH mana regen do you REALLY need though? Can you perhaps get away with just a Philo stone or something? ...now i'm picturing a wonky udyr build that gets Elisia's Miracle and runs Heal. (Shurelya's would be more standard and is pretty reasonable to get on Udyr, especially with supports leaning strongly towards Locket as their first major item) | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
but landing a harrier-vault-harrier combo feels awesome or hell just vault-harrier feels good | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On March 23 2013 02:10 kainzero wrote: i dunno about quinn being good or not but landing a harrier-vault-harrier combo feels awesome or hell just vault-harrier feels good Hey, if it's fun, play it. That having been said, I've never had trouble stomping Quinns as MF/Graves. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23394 Posts
On March 23 2013 02:08 sylverfyre wrote: I could see Tiger udyr benefitting pretty reasonably from Muramana, too, with the amount of free attack speed you get. Chalice or (Glacial -> IBG) might work well too. Chalice feels a little awkward cause it kinda deadends for Udyr though... How MUCH mana regen do you REALLY need though? Can you perhaps get away with just a Philo stone or something? ...now i'm picturing a wonky udyr build that gets Elisia's Miracle and runs Heal. (Shurelya's would be more standard and is pretty reasonable to get on Udyr, especially with supports leaning strongly towards Locket as their first major item) tear ideas are all really dumb. Once you get high level mana costs are small and you can just base for a full pool and be fine, especially with sheen or glacial items. Chalice is enough mana regen probably, or else a flat mana item like a quick glacial against armour guys, philo works if you want to play a bit more passive I guess but shurelyas sucks now so you will end up selling it I think. chalice isn't bad because magic resist is good and you can always sell it and only lose like 250 gold and the large majority of the time you can just leave it in your inventory and it doesnt cause any problems unless you bought 2 dorans as well. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On March 23 2013 02:10 kainzero wrote: i dunno about quinn being good or not but landing a harrier-vault-harrier combo feels awesome or hell just vault-harrier feels good I feel like a lot of her weakness stems from the predictability of Vault (I've landed a lot of easy skillshots by putting them approx where vault will land her, and I'm not even that good) and the ability to make her lose her steroid by staying away from her for such a short window. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On March 23 2013 02:08 sylverfyre wrote: I could see Tiger udyr benefitting pretty reasonably from Muramana, too, with the amount of free attack speed you get. Chalice or (Glacial -> IBG) might work well too. Chalice feels a little awkward cause it kinda deadends for Udyr though... How MUCH mana regen do you REALLY need though? Can you perhaps get away with just a Philo stone or something? ...now i'm picturing a wonky udyr build that gets Elisia's Miracle and runs Heal. (Shurelya's would be more standard and is pretty reasonable to get on Udyr, especially with supports leaning strongly towards Locket as their first major item) udyr doesnt need manamune to stack a tear so its ok to build tear and then proceed with other stuff until you have room to build offense. in the other hand it would be ridiculous to build muramana and BC on a easily kitable bruiser. shureilas seems to be the most fitting item if you need constant manaregen + has the best active in the game. on a toplane udyr: shureilas bc mercs randuins seems to be a strong lategame build and has useful parts in all directions. @teut: shureilas does not suck now. you just dont get free stats besides the active anymore, which is very reasonable for having that active. you still profit from shureilas on a ton of champs and setups. like in a kite vs engage comp the one that has more shureilas has a huge advantage. I'am starting to buy it more and more again on initiators like taric/sona/voli/mao etc and i almost allways feel stronger/more usefull during lategame fights witht that item. maybe its just because ppl arent used to position against it anymore. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23394 Posts
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On March 23 2013 02:27 Slayer91 wrote: Shurelyas mercs BC Locket/glacial sounds better. From my experience on tiger udyr frozen heart works a lot better than randuins. CDR is just really good on both Q and W and not bad on E either. agree. cdr seems to be very important and you are one of the best udyr players I know. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
My trouble with playing against Udyr top isn't that he has some unbreakable shield but rather it's the lag and fps drops and server issues that let Udyr get close to me top lane. All shields are breakable, even Udyrs. When I play Udyr top I usually just kill people or zone them. There aren't many champions that can duel Udyr. I don't agree with the motivation for the nerfs "Udyr is unfun top because all he does is shield or be useless". At higher levels people have less lag issues and better computers so staying away from Udyr as ranged is easier. But even without turtle, you can often just shove the lane and back ala singed mode. Other people claim in the Udyr thread that he has a monstrous level 1 all in but that wasn't targeted either. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On March 23 2013 02:22 Slayer91 wrote: That's why I threw the Elisia's idea out there - the item vanishes and you keep the stats. I'd imagine you would upgrade it in the level ~10 range (it costs 440 to upgrade and bumps the regen to 10hp5 / 15mp5) The heal idea is kinda goofy though, just a cute idea to abuse the 30% summoner CDR.tear ideas are all really dumb. Once you get high level mana costs are small and you can just base for a full pool and be fine, especially with sheen or glacial items. Chalice is enough mana regen probably, or else a flat mana item like a quick glacial against armour guys, philo works if you want to play a bit more passive I guess but shurelyas sucks now so you will end up selling it I think. chalice isn't bad because magic resist is good and you can always sell it and only lose like 250 gold and the large majority of the time you can just leave it in your inventory and it doesnt cause any problems unless you bought 2 dorans as well. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 22 2013 21:25 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Because he sucks and has for a long time. One gambit game doesn't change that. The thing is Diamondprox's Udyr and Nasus jungle highlight a way of thinking that has traditionally been ignored with regard to melee champs with weak engagement ability (no gap closers, etc.)--which is that if you bring enough team utility to the table, and make yourself "valuable" in enhancing the combat power of the other 4 members of the team, you don't need to worry about having trouble engaging the enemy back line or doing heroes. You can fight primarily as a utility hero primarily aimed toward specific utility (Bear Stance, Wither, Locket + Aegis aura/active) and as a counter-engagement threat against melees (Phoenix close-range damage, Nasus ulti). On March 23 2013 02:25 clickrush wrote: @teut: shureilas does not suck now. you just dont get free stats besides the active anymore, which is very reasonable for having that active. you still profit from shureilas on a ton of champs and setups. like in a kite vs engage comp the one that has more shureilas has a huge advantage. I'am starting to buy it more and more again on initiators like taric/sona/voli/mao etc and i almost allways feel stronger/more usefull during lategame fights witht that item. maybe its just because ppl arent used to position against it anymore. The problem with Shurelya's is that unless you have the stats to be able to win a heads-up fight, it's only useful as a disengaging tool, as an engaging tool is only really useful when you can win the fight you're engaging. Pre-nerf Shurelya's gave enough stats to contribute to that, so even if you rushed Shurelya's you had enough survivability to engage a fight and if you were ahead. But as of right now, Shurelya's sacrifices so many combat stats that if you buy a Shurelya's and the other team buys fighting stat items (Locket), you're more or less going to engage fights you can't win because Shurelya's doesn't give you enough combat stats. So while the item is situationally useful, it requires that you buffer your combat stats to the necessary levels first, making it unappealing as a first item. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23394 Posts
Nasus is slightly different in that he IS good at fighting tanks but he can easily be harassed down so you rely on your W reduce their ADs damage but he isnt as mobile as udyr in terms of reacting to situations since with udyr at any time can switch from diving to defending since he has no long cds. Eleisas kinda sucks because the main attraction is philo stone is that the regen which sucks later on is compensated by the gold/5 which pays you off. Buying eliesas is just throwing away all that money for slightly better stats. | ||
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Vlanitak
Norway3045 Posts
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Phunkapotamus
United States496 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On the other hand, Stuff like BC+BotRK and heading into FH+SV as defenses (allows early chainvest or negatron depending on lane, also allows early HP and CDR with kindlegem and glacial, so you're flexible and don't need the full 5.5k gold) would be even better now since Tiger's DoT would benefit from the ArPen too. Still, I don't think I'll like what it implies for his laning. :/ "We don't like his current laning because it's stale, so instead we make him even weaker so you won't want to lane him and there won't be any problem." Yeah, for the designer I guess it solves it... but from the PoV of the guy who likes to play it? :/ (I play stuff like Udyr, Mundo or Shen only because I can do plays like the one in the video, so... ) | ||
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
On March 23 2013 03:11 Vlanitak wrote: playing eve online... trying to get into Lumi (system) to defend motherland. Dirty galente scum sitting at gate trying to get in to kill my countrymen. When no one gets in (1k people sitting at the gate) people start posting TSM! in local chat. wat... Playing gw2 camping Shadow Behemoth(Think nocturne the world boss only not as cool sounding) and suddenly a Lux starts talking in map chat, next thing I know TSM was being shouted out and discussions on how awesome X champion was. | ||
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
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