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[Patch 3.03: Quinn] General Discussion - Page 157

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NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-15 21:23:42
March 15 2013 21:23 GMT
#3121
[image loading][image loading]


When you didn't think our Super Week write-ups could get any longer...
Come take a read before NA LCS starts in a few hours.
For TeamLiquid~
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
March 15 2013 21:27 GMT
#3122
On March 16 2013 06:11 NeoIllusions wrote:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=35623691#post35623691

New Karma remake details. :O :O

I don't really play Karma now, so I don't know how different it is, but this seems like a decent support/AP kit. Numbers are really what will tell in the end though.
It's your boy Guzma!
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
March 15 2013 21:30 GMT
#3123
On March 16 2013 06:11 NeoIllusions wrote:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=35623691#post35623691

New Karma remake details. :O :O

So.. Leblanc W?
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-15 21:40:18
March 15 2013 21:34 GMT
#3124
On March 16 2013 06:27 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2013 06:11 NeoIllusions wrote:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=35623691#post35623691

New Karma remake details. :O :O

I don't really play Karma now, so I don't know how different it is, but this seems like a decent support/AP kit. Numbers are really what will tell in the end though.

It should impact a lot on her "sustained tankiness", as the use of CDR and mantra management to get out as many heals and shields as possible in a short time frame made her godly at keeping someone alive if he couldn't get 100-0'd by the enemy team. The new mechanism for her mantra recharge probably won't allow that—which isn't necessarily a good/bad thing, it'll just be... different.

And yeah, Riot envisions her as a support, the way Nami/Morgana/Orianna are supports: "my abilities are here to help/enhance my team", but this doesn't mean they don't want her to be able to solo lane (iirc they specifically said that they wanted her to be able to solo lane).

I'm sad about the loss of her old passive, though. I thought it fitted very well with her "inner strength" and "determination" themes and heal/shield-based kit.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Arekan
Profile Joined February 2011
United States248 Posts
March 15 2013 21:36 GMT
#3125
On March 16 2013 06:11 NeoIllusions wrote:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=35623691#post35623691

New Karma remake details. :O :O


The kit seems like it will be cool for a supporty AP, but the kit doesn't really feel like Karma to me.
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
March 15 2013 21:36 GMT
#3126
On March 16 2013 06:30 xes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2013 06:11 NeoIllusions wrote:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=35623691#post35623691

New Karma remake details. :O :O

So.. Leblanc W?

It's targeted though. Plus the mantra bonus.

I think the number one spot for "most similar abilities when compared in a vacuum" has to be given to Annie's E/Rammus's W.
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-15 21:39:44
March 15 2013 21:37 GMT
#3127
On March 16 2013 06:30 xes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2013 06:11 NeoIllusions wrote:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=35623691#post35623691

New Karma remake details. :O :O

So.. Leblanc W?

Thought the exact same thing, except it's probably a targeted spell instead of a skillshot and has the DoT instead of two pops of damage.

Edit: Mantra E could be really strong depending on the size of the AoE and shield, just makes me think of Locket.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
March 15 2013 21:41 GMT
#3128
On March 16 2013 06:37 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2013 06:30 xes wrote:
On March 16 2013 06:11 NeoIllusions wrote:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=35623691#post35623691

New Karma remake details. :O :O

So.. Leblanc W?

Thought the exact same thing, except it's probably a targeted spell instead of a skillshot and has the DoT instead of two pops of damage.

Edit: Mantra E could be really strong depending on the size of the AoE and shield, just makes me think of Locket.

Screams "shurelya+locket initiation" if the speed boost is strong enough, to me.
The loss of her passive and ability to heal others are the biggest changes I think.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Arekan
Profile Joined February 2011
United States248 Posts
March 15 2013 21:44 GMT
#3129
On March 16 2013 06:37 onlywonderboy wrote:

Thought the exact same thing, except it's probably a targeted spell instead of a skillshot and has the DoT instead of two pops of damage.

Edit: Mantra E could be really strong depending on the size of the AoE and shield, just makes me think of Locket.


Mantra E seems like a harder to use combo of Locket and Shurelia's between the AoE shield and speed boost.
Cr4zyH0r5e
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Peru1308 Posts
March 15 2013 21:45 GMT
#3130
On March 16 2013 05:54 Djagulingu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2013 05:40 onlywonderboy wrote:
On March 16 2013 05:36 Djagulingu wrote:
On March 16 2013 04:49 c.Deadly wrote:
On March 16 2013 04:28 Djagulingu wrote:
Hecarim

These changes make Hecarim’s durability more consistent by smoothing out his early game jungle clear while reducing his late game survivability in team fights.

Spirit of Dread
- Cooldown increased to 20/18.5/17/15.5/14 seconds from 14 at all ranks

Can someone please tell me, please, how exactly this is going to "smoothing out his early game jungle clear" or "reduce his late game survivability in team fights". If not possible, telling me what Morello is on is enough too.


The "smoothing out his early game jungle clear" referred to the buffs to hecarim's Q, while the W nerf was strictly to reduce his late game survivability and teamfighting. There wasn't much smoothing out because Hecarim clearly needed an overall nerf, and still does.

When you travel from one camp to another, W still has half of its cooldown -> jungle clearing is very smooth now with that 20 seconds cooldown (because everyone and their moms and grandmoms max q on hecarim), they even buffed q damage by 10 (WHOA).

That cooldown nerf is fucking huge and it cripples hecarim's jungle clear.

I'd played Hec since the change and feel like that's a bit of an exaggeration. I still finish the first jungle clear with enough health to gank. Plus he's still a late game monster so you have to make some early game trade offs.

What's your build? Runes-Masteries-Skills? I think we can no longer go max q with 1 points on w and e. As for masteries, it looks like we have to go 9-21-0 in order to keep clear rates higher without losing HP.


????????
You're exaggerating dude.
Try casting q twice before popping w when clearing camps, you'll get twice the q dmg for the heal.

I still run 0/9/21 on Hecarim, I still have a KDA over 16 with him in ranked, and he's still one of the strongest if not the strongest jungler around.
The only thing that's slowed is his first clear and not significantly enough to make anyone cry about it. If I'm not first pick (blue side) I make sure the horse is banned every game.
Diamond 4 Jungle/Support - http://www.twitch.tv/cr4zyh0r5e/c/3051057 Zyra support 101
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
March 15 2013 21:47 GMT
#3131
On March 16 2013 06:45 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2013 05:54 Djagulingu wrote:
On March 16 2013 05:40 onlywonderboy wrote:
On March 16 2013 05:36 Djagulingu wrote:
On March 16 2013 04:49 c.Deadly wrote:
On March 16 2013 04:28 Djagulingu wrote:
Hecarim

These changes make Hecarim’s durability more consistent by smoothing out his early game jungle clear while reducing his late game survivability in team fights.

Spirit of Dread
- Cooldown increased to 20/18.5/17/15.5/14 seconds from 14 at all ranks

Can someone please tell me, please, how exactly this is going to "smoothing out his early game jungle clear" or "reduce his late game survivability in team fights". If not possible, telling me what Morello is on is enough too.


The "smoothing out his early game jungle clear" referred to the buffs to hecarim's Q, while the W nerf was strictly to reduce his late game survivability and teamfighting. There wasn't much smoothing out because Hecarim clearly needed an overall nerf, and still does.

When you travel from one camp to another, W still has half of its cooldown -> jungle clearing is very smooth now with that 20 seconds cooldown (because everyone and their moms and grandmoms max q on hecarim), they even buffed q damage by 10 (WHOA).

That cooldown nerf is fucking huge and it cripples hecarim's jungle clear.

I'd played Hec since the change and feel like that's a bit of an exaggeration. I still finish the first jungle clear with enough health to gank. Plus he's still a late game monster so you have to make some early game trade offs.

What's your build? Runes-Masteries-Skills? I think we can no longer go max q with 1 points on w and e. As for masteries, it looks like we have to go 9-21-0 in order to keep clear rates higher without losing HP.


????????
You're exaggerating dude.
Try casting q twice before popping w when clearing camps, you'll get twice the q dmg for the heal.

I still run 0/9/21 on Hecarim, I still have a KDA over 16 with him in ranked, and he's still one of the strongest if not the strongest jungler around.
The only thing that's slowed is his first clear and not significantly enough to make anyone cry about it. If I'm not first pick (blue side) I make sure the horse is banned every game.

We should probably take this to the Hec thread, but what are the benefits of 0-9-21 over 9-21-0?
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Mondeezy
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1938 Posts
March 15 2013 21:50 GMT
#3132
Wow, like the Karma rework. Solid kit, and targetable Leblanc E. She'll finally feel like a solid support, depending on her numbers I could see her being a pain to lane against.
LoL NA: Mondeezy - TL - Riven <3
Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
March 15 2013 21:54 GMT
#3133
Weird that a support has a mechanism that relies on dealing damage, but I will wait to see what the complete skill description is. Also, she looks a lot more boring than before >.>
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
March 15 2013 21:56 GMT
#3134
On March 16 2013 06:54 Juicyfruit wrote:
Weird that a support has a mechanism that relies on dealing damage, but I will wait to see what the complete skill description is. Also, she looks a lot more boring than before >.>

They said they want her to be able to still be ran mid or support.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Eiii
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2566 Posts
March 15 2013 21:57 GMT
#3135
To be honest, I don't really get what was wrong with karma's original kit in the first place She seems like a really hard champ to do well with, but I guess I just never understood why her kit was inherently bad in a way unfixable by smaller changes.

It's a shame that she still seems unexplored (to me at least), but it'll be nice to see more of her after the remake.
:3
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
March 15 2013 21:58 GMT
#3136
On March 16 2013 06:54 Juicyfruit wrote:
Weird that a support has a mechanism that relies on dealing damage, but I will wait to see what the complete skill description is. Also, she looks a lot more boring than before >.>

Support Leona, Lux, Zyra, Lulu, Nunu haves passive that refer to dealing damage too. A Riot support is different from a meta support, as was said.

But yeah, the loss of her old passive will possibly make her feel a lot less clutch, along with the loss of her AoE heal. Her "stack resistances and CDR, grab blue and pretend you're the delicate and refined version of Mundo" style may be obsolete, sadly.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
March 15 2013 22:00 GMT
#3137
the only old karma spell i hated was spirit bond, it never seemed fast or slow enough.

not a fan of the passive either, generally i dislike abilities that rely on maintaining low health since i don't feel like the benefits are that worth it unless it's final fantasy 8 and you can spam skip turn to get limit breaks. in a game like lol (or dota with huskar) it is extremely difficult to balance the effectiveness of a skill when you have to be at low health.
Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-15 22:04:57
March 15 2013 22:04 GMT
#3138
On March 16 2013 06:58 Alaric wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2013 06:54 Juicyfruit wrote:
Weird that a support has a mechanism that relies on dealing damage, but I will wait to see what the complete skill description is. Also, she looks a lot more boring than before >.>

Support Leona, Lux, Zyra, Lulu, Nunu haves passive that refer to dealing damage too. A Riot support is different from a meta support, as was said.

But yeah, the loss of her old passive will possibly make her feel a lot less clutch, along with the loss of her AoE heal. Her "stack resistances and CDR, grab blue and pretend you're the delicate and refined version of Mundo" style may be obsolete, sadly.


I mean, it's fine, it's not going to get in the way of her being played as a support, but it's kinda lacking in creativity. This seriously the best they could have come up with? Should have just left her with her old passive and stick the new passive as part of the mantra skill itself, bleh.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
March 15 2013 22:09 GMT
#3139
Olaf likes low health. Granted, he just stacks HP so "low health" is still 500+ HP for him, but then he presses W and gets to stay low to punch your face at 1.5 AS without having to fear death from your blows.

On March 16 2013 07:04 Juicyfruit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2013 06:58 Alaric wrote:
On March 16 2013 06:54 Juicyfruit wrote:
Weird that a support has a mechanism that relies on dealing damage, but I will wait to see what the complete skill description is. Also, she looks a lot more boring than before >.>

Support Leona, Lux, Zyra, Lulu, Nunu haves passive that refer to dealing damage too. A Riot support is different from a meta support, as was said.

But yeah, the loss of her old passive will possibly make her feel a lot less clutch, along with the loss of her AoE heal. Her "stack resistances and CDR, grab blue and pretend you're the delicate and refined version of Mundo" style may be obsolete, sadly.


I mean, it's fine, it's not going to get in the way of her being played as a support, but it's kinda lacking in creativity. This seriously the best they could have come up with? Should have just left her with her old passive and stick the new passive as part of the mantra skill itself, bleh.

Same could be said with Syndra. I don't remember who, but somebody said regarding her that putting such things in the passive is a way to keep the skills themselves strong to compensate for it. I don't know to which extent it follows Riot's design practices, but I guess it makes sense ("Udyr has no ult and gap closer, so let's give him better base stats and strong spells").
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
beefhamburger
Profile Joined December 2007
United States3962 Posts
March 15 2013 22:16 GMT
#3140
Do you still get the free Karma skin if you buy her now or did that end?
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