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On March 16 2013 04:33 Bladeorade wrote:
Increased his early sustain in the jungle and reduced his teamfighting sustain. You only linked the cooldown nerf they changed the healing to 20% at all levels
Minion healing cap? Increasing healing percentage doesn't help that either, plus it's negated by the CD increase even if there was no minion healing cap.
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United States23745 Posts
On March 16 2013 04:28 Djagulingu wrote:Show nested quote +Hecarim
These changes make Hecarim’s durability more consistent by smoothing out his early game jungle clear while reducing his late game survivability in team fights.
Spirit of Dread
- Cooldown increased to 20/18.5/17/15.5/14 seconds from 14 at all ranks Can someone please tell me, please, how exactly this is going to "smoothing out his early game jungle clear" or "reduce his late game survivability in team fights". If not possible, telling me what Morello is on is enough too.
I mean it decreases his late game survivability because it greatly decreases the chance he can pop Spirit of Dread twice in a fight. Plus the healing was changed to a flat 20% when it was 30% at max rank before. Not sure how it fixes his jungle clear, I just assumed you'd always hit the healing cap on each camp. Helps with ganks though in theory, heal a little more so you don't die to a countergank?
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On March 16 2013 04:28 Djagulingu wrote:Show nested quote +Hecarim
These changes make Hecarim’s durability more consistent by smoothing out his early game jungle clear while reducing his late game survivability in team fights.
Spirit of Dread
- Cooldown increased to 20/18.5/17/15.5/14 seconds from 14 at all ranks Can someone please tell me, please, how exactly this is going to "smoothing out his early game jungle clear" or "reduce his late game survivability in team fights". If not possible, telling me what Morello is on is enough too.
The "smoothing out his early game jungle clear" referred to the buffs to hecarim's Q, while the W nerf was strictly to reduce his late game survivability and teamfighting. There wasn't much smoothing out because Hecarim clearly needed an overall nerf, and still does.
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On March 16 2013 00:00 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 18:27 iCanada wrote:
Kind of out of the blue, but I feel like Dr Mundo really really strong right now in the jungle. If you go E-W-Q, R>E>Q>W
His E is a silly strong single target DPS steroid, and was always one of the better clearing skills season 1, but no one recognized it S2. He plays in S3 much like he did in S2, except he maxes E over W; Clear at ridiculous speeds, then just overgank the hell out of mid+top. He also like only jungler right now that flat out gains nothing in terms of jungle clear/Ganks from blue buff. You can donate your first one off to your mid laner and watch them beat on, out push, and out gank their lane opponent ezpz.
Literally all the itemization changes were huge buffs to Mundo. All of them... Mundo never could start boots, needed the cloth, but movement changes means he gets boots free, much better early ganking now. Mundo always wanted to bum rush HP now HP itemization cheaper and better than ever. All the OP team items he loves, Locket especially good on him, makes his ult so strong because while they burn through shield he regen like 600+ hp. He even loves BtoRK if he getting fed enough because the attack speed is really really good with his 150+ AD steroid E..
Not to mention, the fact that every one is now building ridiculous amounts of HP and not buying anywhere near as much resists as they used to makes his cleaver much much stronger. His Q doing 25% damage of 2.5k HP minus 200 MR was only like 150 damage... now people building like 3-4k HP minus like 60 MR is like 700 damage every 4 seconds.
Aside from his first clear which is a little bit sketchy, he real strong all game. Even early levels his dueling disgusting when you have like 3 levels in his E... Basically +100 AD for free.
Try him out TL, you might be surprised. Uh? If you give away your blue buff, that's a non-negligible amount of exp you lose, though. Considering how fragile Mundo can be pre-6, and especially is very first clear which rely on his W, I wouldn't do it. Plus, with a smiteless on either blue or red, you can have that level 3-4 timing where you're still healthy enough to gank. Past that he'll usually be forced to back because of W cost and use pots till he gets level 6. Are you sure maxing E first is faster anyway? I tried leveling W to 2 only then maxing E, and I found that even on wraiths and wolves I ended up being slower than with level 3 W (and then I tend to max Q, then E, then finish W because it provides burst and poke). May be important to note that I don't upgrade Machete at all, unless I have a belt in my inventory and somehow sit on 1k against a team that requires Tenacity. With his E, and his W doing the work on small monsters Madred's feels like a waste, and early on I'd rather get HP than the regen on spirit stone.
Not first blue. I meant blue at 7 minute mark, sorry. I been going Wolves->Blue->Red->Gank then just grabbing a spirit stone. I dunno, some wasted stats, but the regen is really helpful and the clearspeed increase is really noticable. Just because mundo is hella fast, doesn't mean you should gimp him by not making him hella faster.
/shrug
Sides, then you just healthier and can overgank alot. And it feels pretty sweet having like 8 HP regen per 5 at level 4. I dunno, I know he doesn't necessarily require tenacity, but Tenacity, tenacious, and his W actives' passive makes him feel like Olaf, unpeelable basically.
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So i'm beginning to realize that all of the mids I'm good at will get me yelled at if I pick them in solo q (Brand, Viktor, Veigar) and I literally can only play Cho top. My jungle/support/adc pool looks pretty good..what are three or four mids and tops I should look to pick up?
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On March 16 2013 04:18 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 02:34 Zhiroo wrote:On March 16 2013 02:12 TheYango wrote:On March 16 2013 01:42 Zhiroo wrote:
Was Tarics Dazzle range always this big or was it changed? I thought the range was lower. 625 range isn't exactly long, and yes, it's been that long since I started playing the game at least. For some reason I always thought it was like 550 I think the long travel time; makes the range looks ridiculous. So people can effectively walk like ~100 or so range after stun cast. So it feels like 725 range, or something, instead of 625.
The thing is it's also a spell so the distance is measured from the center of Taric to the target instead of from the edge of the collision model like auto attacks are. To convert from spell to AA you basically subtract 100 (roughly). So Taric's feels like an AA range (525-550) because it *is* in the AA ranges.
edit: Shouldn't Brand be great in the HP meta? People were talking about liandry's/rylai's on him in the Brand thread and the combo sounded pretty scary to me since the items work with his passive.
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On March 16 2013 05:24 Hyren wrote:
So i'm beginning to realize that all of the mids I'm good at will get me yelled at if I pick them in solo q (Brand, Viktor, Veigar) and I literally can only play Cho top. My jungle/support/adc pool looks pretty good..what are three or four mids and tops I should look to pick up?
Xerath is a little like Brand. Otherwise you need some AD Burst champs.
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United States23745 Posts
On March 16 2013 05:25 phyvo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 04:18 wei2coolman wrote:On March 16 2013 02:34 Zhiroo wrote:On March 16 2013 02:12 TheYango wrote:On March 16 2013 01:42 Zhiroo wrote:
Was Tarics Dazzle range always this big or was it changed? I thought the range was lower. 625 range isn't exactly long, and yes, it's been that long since I started playing the game at least. For some reason I always thought it was like 550 I think the long travel time; makes the range looks ridiculous. So people can effectively walk like ~100 or so range after stun cast. So it feels like 725 range, or something, instead of 625. The thing is it's also a spell so the distance is measured from the center of Taric to the target instead of from the edge of the collision model like auto attacks are. To convert from spell to AA you basically subtract 100 (roughly). So Taric's feels like an AA range (525-550) because it *is* in the AA ranges. edit: Shouldn't Brand be great in the HP meta? People were talking about liandry's/rylai's on him in the Brand thread and the combo sounded pretty scary to me since the items work with his passive.
I was under the impression Brand has always been pretty decent but just not played a lot since he's so skillshot reliant (his stun is a skill shot and missing any part of his combo reduces his damage significantly.) There are a lot of skill shot mids, but they usually bring some sort of other utility to the table (Lux has her shield and wave clear on her ult, Morg has her shield and CC on her ult, ect)
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On March 16 2013 04:49 c.Deadly wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 04:28 Djagulingu wrote:Hecarim
These changes make Hecarim’s durability more consistent by smoothing out his early game jungle clear while reducing his late game survivability in team fights.
Spirit of Dread
- Cooldown increased to 20/18.5/17/15.5/14 seconds from 14 at all ranks Can someone please tell me, please, how exactly this is going to "smoothing out his early game jungle clear" or "reduce his late game survivability in team fights". If not possible, telling me what Morello is on is enough too. The "smoothing out his early game jungle clear" referred to the buffs to hecarim's Q, while the W nerf was strictly to reduce his late game survivability and teamfighting. There wasn't much smoothing out because Hecarim clearly needed an overall nerf, and still does.
When you travel from one camp to another, W still has half of its cooldown -> jungle clearing is very smooth now with that 20 seconds cooldown (because everyone and their moms and grandmoms max q on hecarim), they even buffed q damage by 10 (WHOA).
That cooldown nerf is fucking huge and it cripples hecarim's jungle clear.
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United States23745 Posts
On March 16 2013 05:36 Djagulingu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 04:49 c.Deadly wrote:On March 16 2013 04:28 Djagulingu wrote:Hecarim
These changes make Hecarim’s durability more consistent by smoothing out his early game jungle clear while reducing his late game survivability in team fights.
Spirit of Dread
- Cooldown increased to 20/18.5/17/15.5/14 seconds from 14 at all ranks Can someone please tell me, please, how exactly this is going to "smoothing out his early game jungle clear" or "reduce his late game survivability in team fights". If not possible, telling me what Morello is on is enough too. The "smoothing out his early game jungle clear" referred to the buffs to hecarim's Q, while the W nerf was strictly to reduce his late game survivability and teamfighting. There wasn't much smoothing out because Hecarim clearly needed an overall nerf, and still does. When you travel from one camp to another, W still has half of its cooldown -> jungle clearing is very smooth now with that 20 seconds cooldown (because everyone and their moms and grandmoms max q on hecarim), they even buffed q damage by 10 (WHOA). That cooldown nerf is fucking huge and it cripples hecarim's jungle clear.
I'd played Hec since the change and feel like that's a bit of an exaggeration. I still finish the first jungle clear with enough health to gank. Plus he's still a late game monster so you have to make some early game trade offs.
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On March 16 2013 05:24 Hyren wrote:
So i'm beginning to realize that all of the mids I'm good at will get me yelled at if I pick them in solo q (Brand, Viktor, Veigar) and I literally can only play Cho top. My jungle/support/adc pool looks pretty good..what are three or four mids and tops I should look to pick up?
for midlane i'd pick up TF, anivia and akali right now
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Brand's burst damage is designed under the assumption that you'll hit W on an ignited target and his ult will hit the target at least twice, so you rely on hitting those Es to really burst people down (or reliably Q/W them so you soften them before using your combo as a finisher).
His E is a point'n'click with pretty long wind-up and particularly wind-down frames and 625 range, so using it pretty much means that you'll eat retaliation unless you're fighting Lux with her E down or something, and against stuff like Ahri, Xerath, Morde, etc. the fact that you still need to hit a collision linear skillshot is a massive turn-down to trying to trade with them in most occasions.
His mana-clearing efficiency is also pretty low, and he doesn't have Lux's passive or Anivia's stupidly bullshit base damages to make up for the lack of damage that'll come from a catalyst or tear. A W+E is a lot of mana and isn't even sure to clear the whole wave, while a QEW combo will probably do it (ignites the whole wave for +25% W damage) but is very costly.
Nail in the coffin: his french VA is much better than the original but I don't wanna turn my game back to French. T_T
His kiting is still amazing with a rylai (boom, eat that, 5.5s 35% slow on everybody that get hit by his spells) and his poking damage is amazing once he gets some penetration. He also retains is trademark "dive me with your jungler, give me a double at tower" for a good part of the early game, and should be able to blow up squishies who make the mistake of stepping in range of his E during fights.
He lacks (or is outclassed without compensating elsewhere) most traits that make the popular mids competitively and in soloQ currently:
- mobility (Kassadin, Diana, Nidalee)
- range (Lux, Nidalee, Jayce and Kha'Zix in a way)
- tankiness (Kassadin, Diana, Kayle)
- roaming (Nidalee, Lux, Kassadin, Kha'Zix)
- unconditional burst (most ADs, especially Zed)
- clearing power for sieges (Kha'Zix, Diana, Lux... as long as he needs to E the wave to kill it, he's like Kayle: he can clear, but range too short)
So he's still good, it's just that there's better than him right now. I find interesting how he's a burst mage but his passive makes him so good at poking/kiting though.
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On March 16 2013 05:40 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 05:36 Djagulingu wrote:On March 16 2013 04:49 c.Deadly wrote:On March 16 2013 04:28 Djagulingu wrote:Hecarim
These changes make Hecarim’s durability more consistent by smoothing out his early game jungle clear while reducing his late game survivability in team fights.
Spirit of Dread
- Cooldown increased to 20/18.5/17/15.5/14 seconds from 14 at all ranks Can someone please tell me, please, how exactly this is going to "smoothing out his early game jungle clear" or "reduce his late game survivability in team fights". If not possible, telling me what Morello is on is enough too. The "smoothing out his early game jungle clear" referred to the buffs to hecarim's Q, while the W nerf was strictly to reduce his late game survivability and teamfighting. There wasn't much smoothing out because Hecarim clearly needed an overall nerf, and still does. When you travel from one camp to another, W still has half of its cooldown -> jungle clearing is very smooth now with that 20 seconds cooldown (because everyone and their moms and grandmoms max q on hecarim), they even buffed q damage by 10 (WHOA). That cooldown nerf is fucking huge and it cripples hecarim's jungle clear. I'd played Hec since the change and feel like that's a bit of an exaggeration. I still finish the first jungle clear with enough health to gank. Plus he's still a late game monster so you have to make some early game trade offs.
What's your build? Runes-Masteries-Skills? I think we can no longer go max q with 1 points on w and e. As for masteries, it looks like we have to go 9-21-0 in order to keep clear rates higher without losing HP.
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United States23745 Posts
On March 16 2013 05:54 Djagulingu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 05:40 onlywonderboy wrote:On March 16 2013 05:36 Djagulingu wrote:On March 16 2013 04:49 c.Deadly wrote:On March 16 2013 04:28 Djagulingu wrote:Hecarim
These changes make Hecarim’s durability more consistent by smoothing out his early game jungle clear while reducing his late game survivability in team fights.
Spirit of Dread
- Cooldown increased to 20/18.5/17/15.5/14 seconds from 14 at all ranks Can someone please tell me, please, how exactly this is going to "smoothing out his early game jungle clear" or "reduce his late game survivability in team fights". If not possible, telling me what Morello is on is enough too. The "smoothing out his early game jungle clear" referred to the buffs to hecarim's Q, while the W nerf was strictly to reduce his late game survivability and teamfighting. There wasn't much smoothing out because Hecarim clearly needed an overall nerf, and still does. When you travel from one camp to another, W still has half of its cooldown -> jungle clearing is very smooth now with that 20 seconds cooldown (because everyone and their moms and grandmoms max q on hecarim), they even buffed q damage by 10 (WHOA). That cooldown nerf is fucking huge and it cripples hecarim's jungle clear. I'd played Hec since the change and feel like that's a bit of an exaggeration. I still finish the first jungle clear with enough health to gank. Plus he's still a late game monster so you have to make some early game trade offs. What's your build? Runes-Masteries-Skills? I think we can no longer go max q with 1 points on w and e. As for masteries, it looks like we have to go 9-21-0 in order to keep clear rates higher without losing HP.
I've always ran 9-21-0 on Hec so maybe that's why it's not affecting me as much. Still max Q, runes I usually go move speed, AttkSp, Armor, Magic Resit per level, build Elder Lizard, IBG, and then tanky.
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On March 16 2013 05:34 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 05:25 phyvo wrote:On March 16 2013 04:18 wei2coolman wrote:On March 16 2013 02:34 Zhiroo wrote:On March 16 2013 02:12 TheYango wrote:On March 16 2013 01:42 Zhiroo wrote:
Was Tarics Dazzle range always this big or was it changed? I thought the range was lower. 625 range isn't exactly long, and yes, it's been that long since I started playing the game at least. For some reason I always thought it was like 550 I think the long travel time; makes the range looks ridiculous. So people can effectively walk like ~100 or so range after stun cast. So it feels like 725 range, or something, instead of 625. The thing is it's also a spell so the distance is measured from the center of Taric to the target instead of from the edge of the collision model like auto attacks are. To convert from spell to AA you basically subtract 100 (roughly). So Taric's feels like an AA range (525-550) because it *is* in the AA ranges. edit: Shouldn't Brand be great in the HP meta? People were talking about liandry's/rylai's on him in the Brand thread and the combo sounded pretty scary to me since the items work with his passive. I was under the impression Brand has always been pretty decent but just not played a lot since he's so skillshot reliant (his stun is a skill shot and missing any part of his combo reduces his damage significantly.) There are a lot of skill shot mids, but they usually bring some sort of other utility to the table (Lux has her shield and wave clear on her ult, Morg has her shield and CC on her ult, ect)
Brand also has to dominate lane to be effective. The problem is that there's just too many champs/ways to play extremely safe to avoid Brand's lane dominance and just simply scale harder. This is also why you don't see champs like LeBlanc as much.
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Um I have run Hecarim quite a few times since the change and I always run 9-21-0 with same runes as wonderboy and the same build.
Machete -> boots spirit stone -> Lizard+ IBG+ Belt
Max Q then depending on whether I want W cooldown or E cooldown, so Q>W=E or something
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United States37500 Posts
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On March 16 2013 05:24 Hyren wrote:
So i'm beginning to realize that all of the mids I'm good at will get me yelled at if I pick them in solo q (Brand, Viktor, Veigar) and I literally can only play Cho top. My jungle/support/adc pool looks pretty good..what are three or four mids and tops I should look to pick up?
well fuck that, those are all fine mids and if you're good play them. They do all fit one class of mid though so you should probably pick up some alternates like a high mobility/diving mid like Akali/diana/Kat/fizz/Kass, and some kind of very safe mid like Morg/Ryze/Cho/Ori if you want a nice setup.
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Vampyro is the best twitch NA. Dude's such a boss.
Also my GP is blessed. I always have the best teams possible when I play Gangplank for whatever reason.
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United States37500 Posts
On March 16 2013 06:19 Chrispy wrote:
Vampyro is the best twitch NA. Dude's such a boss.
Also my GP is blessed. I always have the best teams possible when I play Gangplank for whatever reason.
I recall that Smash loves Vampyro too.
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EPT
