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On February 20 2013 04:58 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 04:54 MoonBear wrote:
This is slightly off on a tangent, but if you read some of the posts in DotA strategy they really give you a headache. Def do not want to have that happen here. Or even worse, SC2 Strat Forum before the Great Purge of 2011. TBH it's kind of funny how quite a few people that got shouted out of this subforum went on to become regular shitposters in the DotA 2 subforum.
Are you implying that the size of the DotA2 subforum makes it harder to single out people with "bad" posting habits like them, regardless of the history/autonomy that we have here?
Also, when thinking about starting the Vi thread since she was gaining popularity and getting asked about in GD more often I already had most of the infos laid out in my mind (at least for the generic+jungle parts), so I thought most of the time involved in it would just be about making it look pretty, "luxury" so to speak.
After I spent almost 5 hours on it, a lot because of formating (getting the pictures, adding the links, etc.) but also double-checking and making sure I didn't forget anything for something as simple as a basic guide for a champ I played a lot, I sure as hell wouldn't be ready (nor want) to do it regularly.
Write-ups, as MoonBear pointed out in his "musings" blog, require creative thinking and new content, rather than just reword/write down stuff you already know, and as such certainly require much more effort. The "bigger" TL would grow for LoL, the more expectations there would also be regarding the content provided—talking about the official stuff here, write-ups, (p)reviews, etc. courtesy of the LoL staff. It's not only about "Are we big enough to make the next step?" but "Would we be ready for what that step would bring?", and I certainly wouldn't hold it against anyone in the current staff if they didn't want to open the gates to higher expectations and pressure.
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As someone who mainly lurks here, I'm perfectly happy with the way the subforum is now. I can actually learn things here, since as yango said, it isnt drowned in an immense pile of dogshit (random pokemon discussions not included  ). If the subforum expands, I don't want to have to sift through all the shitposts commonly found in other forums...
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On February 20 2013 04:54 MoonBear wrote:
This is slightly off on a tangent, but if you read some of the posts in DotA strategy they really give you a headache. Def do not want to have that happen here. Or even worse, SC2 Strat Forum before the Great Purge of 2011.
I don't think anyone of the regular good posters post in the strategy section. Well by that I mean I haven't seen Yango posts when I've occasionally popped in there ;>
I actually read/post more here even though I don't really play much LoL(ISP makes it impossible to play). Only watch tournies and read forums. Discussions just seem a lot nicer here. Parties are more willing to listen to the other side then just argue their viewpoint.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
I understand the notion of not wanting to expand and keeping things the way they are right now. But I definitely feel that with good enough moderation, the process of adding new blood might also bring in new ideas, and fresh faces with things to add. I know many people are afraid of it turning into Reddit, but in all honesty it's TL we're talking about. The day we turn into a cesspool of Leesin videos, AMAs, and TILs is going to be the day we all die. Trust and believe in what TL's all about (Neo's quite a good ol' dictator). There are a lot of things that can be improved if there were just enough people to help out.
Yes, it's easy to say "SC2 killed BW. BW was so good, and now SC2 is a heap of shit because all the forum newbies are terrible posters and killed TL". I've thought this myself, many many many times. But if you never try new things, you'll never know how they turn out.
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I would certainly love to see quality match summaries and articles like the SC2 section enjoys.
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On February 20 2013 05:03 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 04:56 TheYango wrote:
Two_down, you're making the assumption that the reason for poor coverage is the lack of information/accessibility. I don't agree with that. There's a lot of good information/discussion that is on other community channels like Reddit. It just gets drowned out in the immense amount of dogshit. Improving access by turning TL into a primary community channel isn't going to change that. This, pretty much. There is a whole bunch of quality information that passes through there from time to time, but to be honest I'm wondering how that quality information got upvoted in the first place considering the general populace and their upvote choices. If the reddit mods are truly going to be cracking down I'm not sure what kind of horseshit is going to make it to the frontpage now. Probably just the random no-name Youtube video BEEG PLAYS that randos keep posting and the "TIL/DAE" shit since I imagine a lot of the research/analysis stuff like the RoG stuff have internal vote-boosters (kinda like us...). Also AHGL will never make it to front page again. >.<
There is a secondary issue there as well. The Reddit algorithm is pretty whacked for taking into account good/ informational threads. It takes into account time thread was created and how fast it is upvoted. This is how things move up onto front page of any subreddit. So, that article people made that takes 15-30 mins to read and then upvote will not always make it to the front page. Even if these are superior quality. On the other hand, that image macro or video that takes 20-30 secs to digest and is mildly interesting? It will definitely make it to the front page.
So, you have people who are trying to get out their original content, who are proud of their work, and who want to get their information out there. The easiest way to be "competitive" is to get people to upvote it gaurenteeing the information is seen. The idea reddit is trying to do is to remove sites that use reddit as an advertising medium, but what it actually is doing is hurting this original content. I do not believe they have a good way to tell the difference between one or the other.
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I'm on my phone right now and it's all buggy and shit so I can't quite quote the person who said that on last page but I think it went like " It's not TL that isn't ready for LoL, it's LoL that isn't ready for TL "
And I couldn't agree more, this LoL subforum here is something I've never seen before on any forum, the community is exceptionally mature, discussions are almost always interesting and people even use LOGIC when arguing ( like, wtf is this ? Am I not on the internet ?! ), we have good players, good casters, good writers, and hell we even have yango, the god damn messiah of this whole subforum :D
This sub-forum is good as it is imho, I'm not against it expending, it'd be great for the staff and for TL as a whole, but growing has its downsides, and losing the overall maturity and intelligence of most of the posts in this sub forum isn't a price I'd be willingful to pay, even though I can fully understand that people would want to see the subforum grow.
Bringing new people here by expanding the sub-forum like they did for DotA is an idea, one may agree with it because they are looking for the growth of the site they love, because they want to share their interest for the game they love on this website, or because they want their work to be recognized, but others may also disagree because it would ruin the charm of this community, it would cause a horde of immature people comming here and posting shitty stuff, and in the end we're not sure it could even work, because I'm fairly sure that if TL was to be the proheminent LoL website, the LoL community would easily take over SC2, which is I think 90% of the time what brought us here, and it would go against the will of Nazgul.
No pain, no gain, but the real question is : is this gain even worth it in the grand scheme of things ?
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Is this the weekly "why does TL not officially support LoL" discussion again?
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On February 20 2013 05:32 Sufficiency wrote:
Is this the weekly "why does TL not officially support LoL" discussion again?
Wait there's a weekly discussion for that ? I never got to argue on that \o/
Guess I always miss it because european time + school + GD going fast as lightning
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United States15536 Posts
On February 20 2013 05:32 Sufficiency wrote:
Is this the weekly "why does TL not officially support LoL" discussion again?
ONE CRIT RUNE, ARPEN, HOG, JELLY, AND NUNU FLIPPED.
+ Show Spoiler +Pay no attention to the subforum behind the curtain.
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On February 20 2013 05:24 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 05:03 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 20 2013 04:56 TheYango wrote:
Two_down, you're making the assumption that the reason for poor coverage is the lack of information/accessibility. I don't agree with that. There's a lot of good information/discussion that is on other community channels like Reddit. It just gets drowned out in the immense amount of dogshit. Improving access by turning TL into a primary community channel isn't going to change that. This, pretty much. There is a whole bunch of quality information that passes through there from time to time, but to be honest I'm wondering how that quality information got upvoted in the first place considering the general populace and their upvote choices. If the reddit mods are truly going to be cracking down I'm not sure what kind of horseshit is going to make it to the frontpage now. Probably just the random no-name Youtube video BEEG PLAYS that randos keep posting and the "TIL/DAE" shit since I imagine a lot of the research/analysis stuff like the RoG stuff have internal vote-boosters (kinda like us...). Also AHGL will never make it to front page again. >.< There is a secondary issue there as well. The Reddit algorithm is pretty whacked for taking into account good/ informational threads. It takes into account time thread was created and how fast it is upvoted. This is how things move up onto front page of any subreddit. So, that article people made that takes 15-30 mins to read and then upvote will not always make it to the front page. Even if these are superior quality. On the other hand, that image macro or video that takes 20-30 secs to digest and is mildly interesting? It will definitely make it to the front page.
The main point isn't that it takes 15-30min to read + upvote. Its the fact that a good chunk of the people aren't even willing to spend 15-30min to read, despite it being potentially quality information. Compound that with the fact that the people who do read 15-30min worth of material and upvote late...then you see what happens. Which is why we get short stupid vids < 1min long and why /r/lol used to get flooded with art/cosplay/pictures in general.
I mean if we need any more proof the other day I saw an image of Miley Cyrus with Dyrus's face MSPainted on top with the image simply stating "Miley Dyrus" get to the top 10 on the front page in a matter of 10 minutes. Granted the mods took it down, but the fact that it happened should tip them off that something is flawed.
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Those last two were blazing fast to make it in. Somebody should start nitpicking on fine Pokemon details just so that poor recurrent topic doesn't feel ripped. 
Also Yango bandwagon.
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On February 20 2013 05:32 Sufficiency wrote:
Is this the weekly "why does TL not officially support LoL" discussion again?
I'll summarize my thoughts on it.
It basically boils down to this --- TL LoL needs staff.
People need to stop worrying about 'what the subforum' will turn into because it's not even close to that point. Like Roffles said, we shouldn't be afraid of what new blood will bring; if there are problems if/when we get more people then they will be dealt with. The evolution of our subforum will be a natural process either way in terms of the influx of content and users, and the guiding process of evolution, the 'natural selection' if you will, are the mods and writers who create our quality content and weed out the shit-posts.
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United States23745 Posts
On February 20 2013 05:32 Sufficiency wrote:
Is this the weekly "why does TL not officially support LoL" discussion again?
I'd say it's probably closer to monthly, this is the most in-depth it has gotten in a while.
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On February 20 2013 05:32 Sufficiency wrote:
Is this the weekly "why does TL not officially support LoL" discussion again?
Didn't we just recently got new subforums? Didn't Moonbear become a Mod? Wasn't the writing staff expanded? Aren't we getting write-ups from the LCS? There hasn't been an official anouncement that TL now supports lol, but I have the impression we have gotten gradually more and more space. It's up to us as community here to drive the process and maybe that is not a bad thing.
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United States15536 Posts
On February 20 2013 05:36 Alaric wrote:Those last two were blazing fast to make it in. Somebody should start nitpicking on fine Pokemon details just so that poor recurrent topic doesn't feel ripped. Also Yango bandwagon.
you're right.
If each Champion were a Pokemon, what would they be?
Leona would definitely be Solrock and Diana would be Lunatone.
Good luck everyone.
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+ Show Spoiler +On February 20 2013 05:45 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 05:36 Alaric wrote:Those last two were blazing fast to make it in. Somebody should start nitpicking on fine Pokemon details just so that poor recurrent topic doesn't feel ripped. Also Yango bandwagon. you're right. If each Champion were a Pokemon, what would they be? Leona would definitely be Solrock and Diana would be Lunatone. Good luck everyone.
Anivia articuno.
I'm done here.
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On February 20 2013 04:47 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 04:36 Two_DoWn wrote:
Your telling me Neo, MB and J would do all that work if 0 people were going to ever look at it?
Maybe they would, but I doubt it.
I know that personally, if I was going to put a ton of effort into putting together great content that I would have the opportunity to spread it to the widest possible audience because I believe that my message matters and helps people. I'm saying that they do it for the subforum and the subforum alone, not any promise of greater glory that might come from "official" TL sponsorship. Look, I don't mean to sound irate, but the idea that there isn't any legitimacy to the "understaffed" reasoning is just not true. And considering the call is consistently going out for more volunteers to STAFF TL LoL and we're STILL understaffed while people complain about TL LoL not being picked up is really galling. Especially when both Neo and MB have explained all this on multiple occasions.Sigh. I know everyone is just looking out for the best needs of the subforum, so I'm not annoyed at y'all. It's just frustrating for these insinuations to come out while there are still obvious problems with our in-house stuff. Even if TL were ready for us, we're not entirely ready for them.
I should think about dropping this, so I'll try to make this my last post on the issue.
It's not that there isn't any legitimacy at all to the staffing issue. It's that staffing should never have been an issue with proper support. The point I am attempting to make is that this would not have been a problem if TL were more supportive earlier on. Even a gradual and slow increase would have been nice. Right now, most people are okay with "better late than never", but I'm saying it should have happened A LOT earlier considering the quality and community here. Again, it is only recently that the LoL staff seems to have been given the go ahead to try to actively and publicly recruit people. There was no active public recruitment before this point(2013?)
I cannot imagine how much frustration the LoL staff had before. I just know it probably wasn't easy.
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On February 20 2013 05:46 Amui wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 20 2013 05:45 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 05:36 Alaric wrote:Those last two were blazing fast to make it in. Somebody should start nitpicking on fine Pokemon details just so that poor recurrent topic doesn't feel ripped. Also Yango bandwagon. you're right. If each Champion were a Pokemon, what would they be? Leona would definitely be Solrock and Diana would be Lunatone. Good luck everyone. Anivia articuno. I'm done here.
Blitzcrank - Electabuzz
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On February 20 2013 04:54 MoonBear wrote:
This is slightly off on a tangent, but if you read some of the posts in DotA strategy they really give you a headache. Def do not want to have that happen here. Or even worse, SC2 Strat Forum before the Great Purge of 2011.
Now, I haven't read the DotA2 strategy subforum, so you might be completely right, but it might also be because you might have more extensive DotA2 experience than LoL experience. A lot of things that can be read in this subforum are also capable of making your head spin.
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EPT
