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[Patch 3.02: Fake Quinn] General Discussion - Page 127

Forum Index > LoL General
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Mensol
Profile Joined September 2012
14536 Posts
February 24 2013 11:46 GMT
#2521
www.twitch.tv/darkforce314 ex-sc2 player darkforce, he is platinium V already, impressive.

If you don't know what the fuck you are doing, how are your enemies supposed to know what the fuck you are doing. - imaqtpie on NA teams at Worlds.
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
February 24 2013 11:51 GMT
#2522
On February 24 2013 20:26 iCanada wrote:
Okay, so I just got yelled at pretty hardcore in game. Long story short, we got rolled, but I kept trying to make plays because I as the jungler was pretty big. Top lane and mid lane both got crushed, so I inherited a lot of creeps after my laners died. I'd say we were about 5k gold behind, no outter towers.

So, i figured to get back in game we had to take some risks, because if we just let them push there advantage we'd lose. So like I said, I was trying to make plays, trying to catch people in transition etc. My team on said that because it solo queue we should just let them throw. I found a few pick plays, caught people in transition, but basically my team didn't help because I was "being too aggressive".

I curious, what is the general consensus? What is better to do when you are behind?

I usually ignore those people in soloQ too, because 95% of the times, it's somebody that's terrible and doesn't understand the term "disadvantage" and tries to towerdive fed enemies and shit.

If waiting for throws works 20% of the times, I'd take it over the 5% chance that (overly-)agressive-dude knows what he's doing.
A backwards poet writes inverse.
Phunkapotamus
Profile Joined April 2010
United States496 Posts
February 24 2013 12:00 GMT
#2523
Spectating Clakey D game. Fiora is a hard counter to Udyr. W the attack out of an Udyr stance. Blocks everything. Silly to watch.
"Do a barrel roll"
RuskiPanda
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2906 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-24 12:20:41
February 24 2013 12:18 GMT
#2524
Do people even still pick udyr? Didn't think that hard countering was ever really a concern.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11988 Posts
February 24 2013 12:58 GMT
#2525
On February 24 2013 20:51 Dandel Ion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2013 20:26 iCanada wrote:
Okay, so I just got yelled at pretty hardcore in game. Long story short, we got rolled, but I kept trying to make plays because I as the jungler was pretty big. Top lane and mid lane both got crushed, so I inherited a lot of creeps after my laners died. I'd say we were about 5k gold behind, no outter towers.

So, i figured to get back in game we had to take some risks, because if we just let them push there advantage we'd lose. So like I said, I was trying to make plays, trying to catch people in transition etc. My team on said that because it solo queue we should just let them throw. I found a few pick plays, caught people in transition, but basically my team didn't help because I was "being too aggressive".

I curious, what is the general consensus? What is better to do when you are behind?

I usually ignore those people in soloQ too, because 95% of the times, it's somebody that's terrible and doesn't understand the term "disadvantage" and tries to towerdive fed enemies and shit.

If waiting for throws works 20% of the times, I'd take it over the 5% chance that (overly-)agressive-dude knows what he's doing.


Best way to encourage throws is to ward shit up, and get an oracles too. That knowledge inequality is the best way for them to do stupid stuff that lets you back. If you KNOW there are only 3 guys there because one backed and the other had to farm wraiths, you can just kill those three guys. They will probably not notice that they are throwing until you are at least equal.
Serelitz
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands2895 Posts
February 24 2013 13:39 GMT
#2526
On February 24 2013 21:18 RuskiPanda wrote:
Do people even still pick udyr? Didn't think that hard countering was ever really a concern.


M5 jungled him a week ago or so in LCS so he's had a slight surge in popularity.
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
February 24 2013 13:46 GMT
#2527
On February 24 2013 19:23 Two_DoWn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2013 13:06 Scip wrote:
On February 24 2013 12:40 Two_DoWn wrote:
Vlad would easily work as a mana champion, and would actually likely be BETTER if he was one.

You would be able to put more power into his Q, lower the CD, and possibly even jack up the healing it gives. The difference would be that instead of being able to perpetually spam it, you would be limited to 3-4 casts before running OOM in lane.

yeah, I mean you could make Vladimir work with mana by completely reworking him and chaging everything about him. However, I don't see how that shows that manaless champions don't increase diversity.

I don't see how Vlad is a mess either. His mid and lategame is very interesting as he is a short-ranged DPS-ey AP, but despite that he is very safe in teamfights thanks to pool. We've seen him used effectivelly in the past most intriguingly in Kog'Maw based teamcomps because of this unique role. Early game his sustain is mostly cooldown and partially aggresiveness dependant, which I think is very interesting and creates an interesting dynamic especially when junglers are involved (in top lane).

Mana on Vlad would actually allow you to push him closer to what he really is. Basically, you would be able to cut the frankly shitty 1-9 and put him closer to the point that people enjoy playing him at much faster.

As for why he is a mess, I guarantee you Vlad would be in the top 5 if you asked anyone who has been around long enough (and probably riot themselves) of champions who have been the most problematic in terms of balance, and that he still isnt in a great spot.

P.S. other champs that would make that list: Pantheon, Ezreal, Eve.

Shaco Jax Trynd
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
LightRailCoyote
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States982 Posts
February 24 2013 14:15 GMT
#2528
On February 24 2013 22:39 Serelitz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2013 21:18 RuskiPanda wrote:
Do people even still pick udyr? Didn't think that hard countering was ever really a concern.


M5 jungled him a week ago or so in LCS so he's had a slight surge in popularity.


Shitty champion counters extremely nice mostly shitty champion

news at eleven D:
AKA SurfSolar ----- This is the product of a DIY inadequate home
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
February 24 2013 14:26 GMT
#2529
On February 24 2013 20:26 iCanada wrote:
Okay, so I just got yelled at pretty hardcore in game. Long story short, we got rolled, but I kept trying to make plays because I as the jungler was pretty big. Top lane and mid lane both got crushed, so I inherited a lot of creeps after my laners died. I'd say we were about 5k gold behind, no outter towers.

So, i figured to get back in game we had to take some risks, because if we just let them push there advantage we'd lose. So like I said, I was trying to make plays, trying to catch people in transition etc. My team on said that because it solo queue we should just let them throw. I found a few pick plays, caught people in transition, but basically my team didn't help because I was "being too aggressive".

I curious, what is the general consensus? What is better to do when you are behind?

It depend on the game, but I'd say taking some risks and forcing advantageous fights to get back into the game is a good mentally. Staying back and farming to get back is most of the time a waste of time since your team will end up getting caught one by one.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
Zdrastochye
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
February 24 2013 14:46 GMT
#2530
On February 24 2013 23:26 WhiteDog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2013 20:26 iCanada wrote:
Okay, so I just got yelled at pretty hardcore in game. Long story short, we got rolled, but I kept trying to make plays because I as the jungler was pretty big. Top lane and mid lane both got crushed, so I inherited a lot of creeps after my laners died. I'd say we were about 5k gold behind, no outter towers.

So, i figured to get back in game we had to take some risks, because if we just let them push there advantage we'd lose. So like I said, I was trying to make plays, trying to catch people in transition etc. My team on said that because it solo queue we should just let them throw. I found a few pick plays, caught people in transition, but basically my team didn't help because I was "being too aggressive".

I curious, what is the general consensus? What is better to do when you are behind?

It depend on the game, but I'd say taking some risks and forcing advantageous fights to get back into the game is a good mentally. Staying back and farming to get back is most of the time a waste of time since your team will end up getting caught one by one.


Yeah when the other team has an advantage, if you sit back and play static you'll concede more of a gold lead unless your team is actually coordinated enough to break up sieges and come out ahead in team fights underneath your towers. I like do to the league equivalent of dota (smoking up) and just having all 5 roam around (with oracles, super important) and try to pick someone off. If you're behind, it's your best chance to get a foothold back into the game, but is by no means a solid plan. It's all relative to the game you're playing, but that's my strategy if I can get everyone on board.
Hey! How you doin'?
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
February 24 2013 14:52 GMT
#2531
On February 24 2013 23:46 Zdrastochye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2013 23:26 WhiteDog wrote:
On February 24 2013 20:26 iCanada wrote:
Okay, so I just got yelled at pretty hardcore in game. Long story short, we got rolled, but I kept trying to make plays because I as the jungler was pretty big. Top lane and mid lane both got crushed, so I inherited a lot of creeps after my laners died. I'd say we were about 5k gold behind, no outter towers.

So, i figured to get back in game we had to take some risks, because if we just let them push there advantage we'd lose. So like I said, I was trying to make plays, trying to catch people in transition etc. My team on said that because it solo queue we should just let them throw. I found a few pick plays, caught people in transition, but basically my team didn't help because I was "being too aggressive".

I curious, what is the general consensus? What is better to do when you are behind?

It depend on the game, but I'd say taking some risks and forcing advantageous fights to get back into the game is a good mentally. Staying back and farming to get back is most of the time a waste of time since your team will end up getting caught one by one.


Yeah when the other team has an advantage, if you sit back and play static you'll concede more of a gold lead unless your team is actually coordinated enough to break up sieges and come out ahead in team fights underneath your towers. I like do to the league equivalent of dota (smoking up) and just having all 5 roam around (with oracles, super important) and try to pick someone off. If you're behind, it's your best chance to get a foothold back into the game, but is by no means a solid plan. It's all relative to the game you're playing, but that's my strategy if I can get everyone on board.


Yeah, see this is what I have always thought too.
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-24 15:22:53
February 24 2013 15:22 GMT
#2532
On February 24 2013 23:46 Zdrastochye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2013 23:26 WhiteDog wrote:
On February 24 2013 20:26 iCanada wrote:
Okay, so I just got yelled at pretty hardcore in game. Long story short, we got rolled, but I kept trying to make plays because I as the jungler was pretty big. Top lane and mid lane both got crushed, so I inherited a lot of creeps after my laners died. I'd say we were about 5k gold behind, no outter towers.

So, i figured to get back in game we had to take some risks, because if we just let them push there advantage we'd lose. So like I said, I was trying to make plays, trying to catch people in transition etc. My team on said that because it solo queue we should just let them throw. I found a few pick plays, caught people in transition, but basically my team didn't help because I was "being too aggressive".

I curious, what is the general consensus? What is better to do when you are behind?

It depend on the game, but I'd say taking some risks and forcing advantageous fights to get back into the game is a good mentally. Staying back and farming to get back is most of the time a waste of time since your team will end up getting caught one by one.


Yeah when the other team has an advantage, if you sit back and play static you'll concede more of a gold lead unless your team is actually coordinated enough to break up sieges and come out ahead in team fights underneath your towers. I like do to the league equivalent of dota (smoking up) and just having all 5 roam around (with oracles, super important) and try to pick someone off. If you're behind, it's your best chance to get a foothold back into the game, but is by no means a solid plan. It's all relative to the game you're playing, but that's my strategy if I can get everyone on board.

The only problem is making people stick together in solo q when you are behind.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
ArchAngelSC
Profile Joined April 2012
England706 Posts
February 24 2013 15:27 GMT
#2533
On February 25 2013 00:22 WhiteDog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2013 23:46 Zdrastochye wrote:
On February 24 2013 23:26 WhiteDog wrote:
On February 24 2013 20:26 iCanada wrote:
Okay, so I just got yelled at pretty hardcore in game. Long story short, we got rolled, but I kept trying to make plays because I as the jungler was pretty big. Top lane and mid lane both got crushed, so I inherited a lot of creeps after my laners died. I'd say we were about 5k gold behind, no outter towers.

So, i figured to get back in game we had to take some risks, because if we just let them push there advantage we'd lose. So like I said, I was trying to make plays, trying to catch people in transition etc. My team on said that because it solo queue we should just let them throw. I found a few pick plays, caught people in transition, but basically my team didn't help because I was "being too aggressive".

I curious, what is the general consensus? What is better to do when you are behind?

It depend on the game, but I'd say taking some risks and forcing advantageous fights to get back into the game is a good mentally. Staying back and farming to get back is most of the time a waste of time since your team will end up getting caught one by one.


Yeah when the other team has an advantage, if you sit back and play static you'll concede more of a gold lead unless your team is actually coordinated enough to break up sieges and come out ahead in team fights underneath your towers. I like do to the league equivalent of dota (smoking up) and just having all 5 roam around (with oracles, super important) and try to pick someone off. If you're behind, it's your best chance to get a foothold back into the game, but is by no means a solid plan. It's all relative to the game you're playing, but that's my strategy if I can get everyone on board.

The only problem is making people stick together in solo q when you are behind.

LOL. Good luck doing that.
h3r1n6
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Iceland2039 Posts
February 24 2013 16:06 GMT
#2534
Does anyone play 3v3?

We messed around a bunch in them last night and they are actually pretty fun. People pick very bruiser-centric and we have basically been playing Xin every game, as none of our opponents bothered to ban him. Other typical picks/bans seem to be Darius/Jarvan/Vi/Jax/Amumu/Malphite/Singed. A lot of teams picked Garen, but none of the Garens did anything useful. Globals seemed weak, since the map is so small, they don't make all that much difference.

I still am confused about how level 1 should play out. Apart from any invade shenanigans, we are sending one person to jungle without smite, helping him at wolves. Objective control doesn't seem as big, as all games were pretty much decided before attempting the spider, so smite doesn't seem to be as helpful as a combat summoner.

From my go-to picks from summoners rift, Ryze seems viable, although I don't feel like playing him there, Ori and Karthus not so much, although Ori could be alright, as she supports bruisers well and is very safe. I have found Rumble to be absurdly strong though, even though I can't play him very well. All the tight corridors in the jungle make the ult really easy to land. The map is also small enough that the ult can pretty much be counted as global, walk 2 steps from bot and it's possible to ult toplane.

AD carries don't seem good, apart from Ezreal and Cait, since both are very safe on their own. In a gamemode without wards, Teemo shrooms are absurdly strong. Cait traps can fill that role too. I also liked Jayce for his poke/pushing power/utility, while still being good in actual engages.

Buying at the start is really awkward, I have no idea what to do with the 825 gold. I'm so used to consumables from Summoners Rift now, but there are no wards anyway. Boots+Dorans gives no pots, not opening boots is kind of slow, especially since everyone on the opponent team will probably have boots.

No idea how strong Blackfire Torch actually is, the Witchcap is really good though.
schmutttt
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia3856 Posts
February 24 2013 16:38 GMT
#2535
So does everyone agree that Randuins is retarded right now? I'm retarded and didn't realize that it not only slows attack speed but also movement speed, wtf is with that? I thought Riot hated 0 counterplay situations...
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14208 Posts
February 24 2013 16:57 GMT
#2536
On February 24 2013 20:46 Mensol wrote:
www.twitch.tv/darkforce314 ex-sc2 player darkforce, he is platinium V already, impressive.


I remember him posting here shortly after him retireing about some common lol stuff I think. Claim him as another tl.lol sucess story? I think yes.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14208 Posts
February 24 2013 17:02 GMT
#2537
On February 25 2013 01:06 h3r1n6 wrote:
Does anyone play 3v3?

We messed around a bunch in them last night and they are actually pretty fun. People pick very bruiser-centric and we have basically been playing Xin every game, as none of our opponents bothered to ban him. Other typical picks/bans seem to be Darius/Jarvan/Vi/Jax/Amumu/Malphite/Singed. A lot of teams picked Garen, but none of the Garens did anything useful. Globals seemed weak, since the map is so small, they don't make all that much difference.

I still am confused about how level 1 should play out. Apart from any invade shenanigans, we are sending one person to jungle without smite, helping him at wolves. Objective control doesn't seem as big, as all games were pretty much decided before attempting the spider, so smite doesn't seem to be as helpful as a combat summoner.

From my go-to picks from summoners rift, Ryze seems viable, although I don't feel like playing him there, Ori and Karthus not so much, although Ori could be alright, as she supports bruisers well and is very safe. I have found Rumble to be absurdly strong though, even though I can't play him very well. All the tight corridors in the jungle make the ult really easy to land. The map is also small enough that the ult can pretty much be counted as global, walk 2 steps from bot and it's possible to ult toplane.

AD carries don't seem good, apart from Ezreal and Cait, since both are very safe on their own. In a gamemode without wards, Teemo shrooms are absurdly strong. Cait traps can fill that role too. I also liked Jayce for his poke/pushing power/utility, while still being good in actual engages.

Buying at the start is really awkward, I have no idea what to do with the 825 gold. I'm so used to consumables from Summoners Rift now, but there are no wards anyway. Boots+Dorans gives no pots, not opening boots is kind of slow, especially since everyone on the opponent team will probably have boots.

No idea how strong Blackfire Torch actually is, the Witchcap is really good though.

Brusier/teemo meta is pretty strong from what I hear. The thister replacement that gives more ad and lifesteal the more you attack is pretty nice too. Yorrick cassio and lux zyra are also really strong.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
February 24 2013 17:50 GMT
#2538
On February 25 2013 01:38 schmutttt wrote:
So does everyone agree that Randuins is retarded right now? I'm retarded and didn't realize that it not only slows attack speed but also movement speed, wtf is with that? I thought Riot hated 0 counterplay situations...

afaik its weaker than s2 randuins
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
February 24 2013 17:57 GMT
#2539
On February 25 2013 01:06 h3r1n6 wrote:
Does anyone play 3v3?

We messed around a bunch in them last night and they are actually pretty fun. People pick very bruiser-centric and we have basically been playing Xin every game, as none of our opponents bothered to ban him. Other typical picks/bans seem to be Darius/Jarvan/Vi/Jax/Amumu/Malphite/Singed. A lot of teams picked Garen, but none of the Garens did anything useful. Globals seemed weak, since the map is so small, they don't make all that much difference.

I still am confused about how level 1 should play out. Apart from any invade shenanigans, we are sending one person to jungle without smite, helping him at wolves. Objective control doesn't seem as big, as all games were pretty much decided before attempting the spider, so smite doesn't seem to be as helpful as a combat summoner.

From my go-to picks from summoners rift, Ryze seems viable, although I don't feel like playing him there, Ori and Karthus not so much, although Ori could be alright, as she supports bruisers well and is very safe. I have found Rumble to be absurdly strong though, even though I can't play him very well. All the tight corridors in the jungle make the ult really easy to land. The map is also small enough that the ult can pretty much be counted as global, walk 2 steps from bot and it's possible to ult toplane.

AD carries don't seem good, apart from Ezreal and Cait, since both are very safe on their own. In a gamemode without wards, Teemo shrooms are absurdly strong. Cait traps can fill that role too. I also liked Jayce for his poke/pushing power/utility, while still being good in actual engages.

Buying at the start is really awkward, I have no idea what to do with the 825 gold. I'm so used to consumables from Summoners Rift now, but there are no wards anyway. Boots+Dorans gives no pots, not opening boots is kind of slow, especially since everyone on the opponent team will probably have boots.

No idea how strong Blackfire Torch actually is, the Witchcap is really good though.

Haha, I actually started playing it again since a couple days since 2 friends got back into lol after a collective PoE stint.

Bruisers definetly still dominate, in all forms. Most usual are AD bruisers (Xin is fkn OP, ban or firstpick every game), but AP bruisers also real strong.

Ofc counter-bruisers are strong because of that (téemo -added "free" wards too, malphite, swain situationally)

Cait is not actually that good imo, Ez is pretty much only ADC you can run comfortably.

Because of all the defense/health stacking on the bruisers, BotRK is mostly enough as a damage item on any champ that even resembles an autoattacker. Warwick is actually REALLY strong if you babysit him to pass a certain point, and can farm jungle decently on the side.


Most AP champs (aside from the tanky/counter-bruiser ones) are just not worth picking imo. Your best compromise would be kayle going nash->blackfire torch, which is also really strong vs all the bruise lees jumping around.

Basically, if your AP does not synergize decently well with bf torch, don't bother picking it. CC/utility is not worth having a squishy on your team, since fights are far more prolonged (due to everyone and their mother being a bruiser)
A backwards poet writes inverse.
GARO
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2255 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-24 18:27:14
February 24 2013 18:18 GMT
#2540
On February 25 2013 01:38 schmutttt wrote:
So does everyone agree that Randuins is retarded right now? I'm retarded and didn't realize that it not only slows attack speed but also movement speed, wtf is with that? I thought Riot hated 0 counterplay situations...

The thing has the same function as it's always had before, and people act like the anti-kite ability on it is something retarded now? ROFL
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