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[Patch 3.02: Fake Quinn] General Discussion - Page 125

Forum Index > LoL General
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UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
February 24 2013 03:26 GMT
#2481
On February 24 2013 10:24 Scip wrote:
It does create different gameplay, but it's often the grand strategy that gets affected (items, prioritizing blue buff which affects the jungler etc.). That is mostly due to the existence of Tear of Goddess and Chalice. While the difference is subtle, it is not at all uninteresting or something to be downplayed.

And yes, it is mostly the kit that creates distinguishing gameplay, but some kits are just more "clean" without mana. Best example here would be Vladimir, a champion whose (incredibly good) sustain and damage are both limited by cooldowns and aggresivity. This concept either requires manalessness or being effectively manaless (almost 0 mana costs).

The fact that vlad only works as a manaless champion is not exactly a credit to the idea of manaless design. Vlad is a mess.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
February 24 2013 03:37 GMT
#2482
Can somebody explain to me how to play renekton vs riven lane?

Why doesnt my stun...actually stun him? Like he jsut keeps jumping with ihs Q after I stun and and i get fucked.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
February 24 2013 03:40 GMT
#2483
Vlad would easily work as a mana champion, and would actually likely be BETTER if he was one.

You would be able to put more power into his Q, lower the CD, and possibly even jack up the healing it gives. The difference would be that instead of being able to perpetually spam it, you would be limited to 3-4 casts before running OOM in lane.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
February 24 2013 03:47 GMT
#2484
oh yeh. I shoulda said "the claim that" or something.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
WiseBagus
Profile Joined September 2011
Canada452 Posts
February 24 2013 03:48 GMT
#2485
Thoughts on Leona Jungle? I have had an urge to try it but I can't come up with a satisfactory build.
"When you come at the King, you best not miss"
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17281 Posts
February 24 2013 03:53 GMT
#2486
On February 24 2013 12:48 WiseBagus wrote:
Thoughts on Leona Jungle? I have had an urge to try it but I can't come up with a satisfactory build.

It's pretty lackluster. Clear speed is bad, ganks are OK (you have no damage, but your CC/passive makes up for some of it). You don't end up all that much stronger come lategame (i.e. other tank junglers scale much more effectively).
twitch.tv/cratonz
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-24 04:10:40
February 24 2013 04:06 GMT
#2487
On February 24 2013 12:40 Two_DoWn wrote:
Vlad would easily work as a mana champion, and would actually likely be BETTER if he was one.

You would be able to put more power into his Q, lower the CD, and possibly even jack up the healing it gives. The difference would be that instead of being able to perpetually spam it, you would be limited to 3-4 casts before running OOM in lane.

yeah, I mean you could make Vladimir work with mana by completely reworking him and chaging everything about him. However, I don't see how that shows that manaless champions don't increase diversity.

I don't see how Vlad is a mess either. His mid and lategame is very interesting as he is a short-ranged DPS-ey AP, but despite that he is very safe in teamfights thanks to pool. We've seen him used effectivelly in the past most intriguingly in Kog'Maw based teamcomps because of this unique role. Early game his sustain is mostly cooldown and partially aggresiveness dependant, which I think is very interesting and creates an interesting dynamic especially when junglers are involved (in top lane).
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
Terranasaur
Profile Joined May 2011
United States2085 Posts
February 24 2013 04:11 GMT
#2488
Manaless isn't the problem. Free spells is the problem. Vlad and Morde and others with health costs don't bother me as much as Kat. Screw her.
Decisions Determine Destiny - Terranasaur#1719 D3 #557 SC2 3DS FC: 2423-3623-8068
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
February 24 2013 04:59 GMT
#2489
On February 24 2013 13:06 Scip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2013 12:40 Two_DoWn wrote:
Vlad would easily work as a mana champion, and would actually likely be BETTER if he was one.

You would be able to put more power into his Q, lower the CD, and possibly even jack up the healing it gives. The difference would be that instead of being able to perpetually spam it, you would be limited to 3-4 casts before running OOM in lane.

yeah, I mean you could make Vladimir work with mana by completely reworking him and chaging everything about him. However, I don't see how that shows that manaless champions don't increase diversity.

I don't see how Vlad is a mess either. His mid and lategame is very interesting as he is a short-ranged DPS-ey AP, but despite that he is very safe in teamfights thanks to pool. We've seen him used effectivelly in the past most intriguingly in Kog'Maw based teamcomps because of this unique role. Early game his sustain is mostly cooldown and partially aggresiveness dependant, which I think is very interesting and creates an interesting dynamic especially when junglers are involved (in top lane).


I actually think Vladimir is fine being a manaless champion, because two of his spells require his health to cast and they are actually quite costly for his health pool. Dr Mundo, imo, is also fine for similar reasons.

I also think Rumble is fine, because his resource system is actually quite intricate.

What I think are not fine:

1. Garen. There is absolutely NO REASON at all why he should not have mana. Seriously. You can also make his passive give extra mana regen based on max mana in addition to health - he will be perfectly fine and easier to balance as a mana champion.
2. Akali. Energy + ammo. WTF is this.
3. Lee Sin. Passive regenerates Energy + spammable shield. WTF is this.
4. Riven. See 3, except even worse.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
February 24 2013 05:15 GMT
#2490
wow, such great news and good fortune today
DnG will be attending ipl6, we qualified today through the TSM tourney
with curse academy and cloud9 being the 2 remaining teams in the loser's bracket, and both having already qualified for ipl6, regardless of how we place, both DnG and Square Duck will get the other 2 IPL6 invites

any TLers going to ipl6? meet up with me?
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-24 05:40:34
February 24 2013 05:24 GMT
#2491
On February 24 2013 13:59 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2013 13:06 Scip wrote:
On February 24 2013 12:40 Two_DoWn wrote:
Vlad would easily work as a mana champion, and would actually likely be BETTER if he was one.

You would be able to put more power into his Q, lower the CD, and possibly even jack up the healing it gives. The difference would be that instead of being able to perpetually spam it, you would be limited to 3-4 casts before running OOM in lane.

yeah, I mean you could make Vladimir work with mana by completely reworking him and chaging everything about him. However, I don't see how that shows that manaless champions don't increase diversity.

I don't see how Vlad is a mess either. His mid and lategame is very interesting as he is a short-ranged DPS-ey AP, but despite that he is very safe in teamfights thanks to pool. We've seen him used effectivelly in the past most intriguingly in Kog'Maw based teamcomps because of this unique role. Early game his sustain is mostly cooldown and partially aggresiveness dependant, which I think is very interesting and creates an interesting dynamic especially when junglers are involved (in top lane).


I actually think Vladimir is fine being a manaless champion, because two of his spells require his health to cast and they are actually quite costly for his health pool. Dr Mundo, imo, is also fine for similar reasons.

I also think Rumble is fine, because his resource system is actually quite intricate.

What I think are not fine:

1. Garen. There is absolutely NO REASON at all why he should not have mana. Seriously. You can also make his passive give extra mana regen based on max mana in addition to health - he will be perfectly fine and easier to balance as a mana champion.
2. Akali. Energy + ammo. WTF is this.
3. Lee Sin. Passive regenerates Energy + spammable shield. WTF is this.
4. Riven. See 3, except even worse.

In regards to Vlad, sure you notice the health cost early game, but mid game and on he gets to the point it doesn't even matter, especially where Q starts to heal for a decent chunk.

Edit: Uhg don't get me started on Akali
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Deleted User 173346
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
16169 Posts
February 24 2013 05:25 GMT
#2492
--- Nuked ---
Mondeezy
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1938 Posts
February 24 2013 05:34 GMT
#2493
Is it just me or are low level (like 5-7) games filled with complete raging assholes lol? Trying to level up an alt to play ranked with my friends and it is like miserable hour long games every time -_-
LoL NA: Mondeezy - TL - Riven <3
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17281 Posts
February 24 2013 05:38 GMT
#2494
On February 24 2013 14:34 Mondeezy wrote:
Is it just me or are low level (like 5-7) games filled with complete raging assholes lol? Trying to level up an alt to play ranked with my friends and it is like miserable hour long games every time -_-

It's full of smurfs and PBU.
twitch.tv/cratonz
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
February 24 2013 05:38 GMT
#2495
On February 24 2013 14:38 Craton wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2013 14:34 Mondeezy wrote:
Is it just me or are low level (like 5-7) games filled with complete raging assholes lol? Trying to level up an alt to play ranked with my friends and it is like miserable hour long games every time -_-

It's full of smurfs and PBU.

Just grind out some bot games, shouldn't take too long to get past that point.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
February 24 2013 05:40 GMT
#2496
On February 24 2013 14:38 Craton wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2013 14:34 Mondeezy wrote:
Is it just me or are low level (like 5-7) games filled with complete raging assholes lol? Trying to level up an alt to play ranked with my friends and it is like miserable hour long games every time -_-

It's full of smurfs and PBU.


And a lot of the PBU/smurfs can't handle the fact that legitimately newbies will epicly feed almost every single game.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-24 05:45:12
February 24 2013 05:42 GMT
#2497
On February 24 2013 14:40 Amui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2013 14:38 Craton wrote:
On February 24 2013 14:34 Mondeezy wrote:
Is it just me or are low level (like 5-7) games filled with complete raging assholes lol? Trying to level up an alt to play ranked with my friends and it is like miserable hour long games every time -_-

It's full of smurfs and PBU.


And a lot of the PBU/smurfs can't handle the fact that legitimately newbies will epicly feed almost every single game.

They're PBUs for a reason...

For new players, they really should heavily encourage them to play AI games before jumping into normals. If they're really smart, they could somehow estimate their MMR based on their performance in bot games, so they wouldn't have to run into smurfs at all.
Chexx
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)11232 Posts
February 24 2013 05:45 GMT
#2498
On February 24 2013 14:15 gtrsrs wrote:
wow, such great news and good fortune today
DnG will be attending ipl6, we qualified today through the TSM tourney
with curse academy and cloud9 being the 2 remaining teams in the loser's bracket, and both having already qualified for ipl6, regardless of how we place, both DnG and Square Duck will get the other 2 IPL6 invites

any TLers going to ipl6? meet up with me?


congratulations!
WriterFollow me @TL_Chexx
Deleted User 173346
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
16169 Posts
February 24 2013 05:56 GMT
#2499
--- Nuked ---
Mondeezy
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1938 Posts
February 24 2013 06:04 GMT
#2500
On February 24 2013 14:42 thenexusp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 24 2013 14:40 Amui wrote:
On February 24 2013 14:38 Craton wrote:
On February 24 2013 14:34 Mondeezy wrote:
Is it just me or are low level (like 5-7) games filled with complete raging assholes lol? Trying to level up an alt to play ranked with my friends and it is like miserable hour long games every time -_-

It's full of smurfs and PBU.


And a lot of the PBU/smurfs can't handle the fact that legitimately newbies will epicly feed almost every single game.

They're PBUs for a reason...

For new players, they really should heavily encourage them to play AI games before jumping into normals. If they're really smart, they could somehow estimate their MMR based on their performance in bot games, so they wouldn't have to run into smurfs at all.


Like I don't mind the new players, I even try to help them if possible. It's just the people who are legitimately bad AND raging at everyone that make it a pain to play lol. But I never thought about bot games or dominion, I can do that I guess since I only play the account when I'm bored.
LoL NA: Mondeezy - TL - Riven <3
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