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On February 24 2013 10:24 Scip wrote:
It does create different gameplay, but it's often the grand strategy that gets affected (items, prioritizing blue buff which affects the jungler etc.). That is mostly due to the existence of Tear of Goddess and Chalice. While the difference is subtle, it is not at all uninteresting or something to be downplayed.
And yes, it is mostly the kit that creates distinguishing gameplay, but some kits are just more "clean" without mana. Best example here would be Vladimir, a champion whose (incredibly good) sustain and damage are both limited by cooldowns and aggresivity. This concept either requires manalessness or being effectively manaless (almost 0 mana costs).
The fact that vlad only works as a manaless champion is not exactly a credit to the idea of manaless design. Vlad is a mess.
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Can somebody explain to me how to play renekton vs riven lane?
Why doesnt my stun...actually stun him? Like he jsut keeps jumping with ihs Q after I stun and and i get fucked.
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Vlad would easily work as a mana champion, and would actually likely be BETTER if he was one.
You would be able to put more power into his Q, lower the CD, and possibly even jack up the healing it gives. The difference would be that instead of being able to perpetually spam it, you would be limited to 3-4 casts before running OOM in lane.
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oh yeh. I shoulda said "the claim that" or something.
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Thoughts on Leona Jungle? I have had an urge to try it but I can't come up with a satisfactory build.
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On February 24 2013 12:48 WiseBagus wrote:
Thoughts on Leona Jungle? I have had an urge to try it but I can't come up with a satisfactory build.
It's pretty lackluster. Clear speed is bad, ganks are OK (you have no damage, but your CC/passive makes up for some of it). You don't end up all that much stronger come lategame (i.e. other tank junglers scale much more effectively).
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On February 24 2013 12:40 Two_DoWn wrote:
Vlad would easily work as a mana champion, and would actually likely be BETTER if he was one.
You would be able to put more power into his Q, lower the CD, and possibly even jack up the healing it gives. The difference would be that instead of being able to perpetually spam it, you would be limited to 3-4 casts before running OOM in lane.
yeah, I mean you could make Vladimir work with mana by completely reworking him and chaging everything about him. However, I don't see how that shows that manaless champions don't increase diversity.
I don't see how Vlad is a mess either. His mid and lategame is very interesting as he is a short-ranged DPS-ey AP, but despite that he is very safe in teamfights thanks to pool. We've seen him used effectivelly in the past most intriguingly in Kog'Maw based teamcomps because of this unique role. Early game his sustain is mostly cooldown and partially aggresiveness dependant, which I think is very interesting and creates an interesting dynamic especially when junglers are involved (in top lane).
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Manaless isn't the problem. Free spells is the problem. Vlad and Morde and others with health costs don't bother me as much as Kat. Screw her.
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On February 24 2013 13:06 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 12:40 Two_DoWn wrote:
Vlad would easily work as a mana champion, and would actually likely be BETTER if he was one.
You would be able to put more power into his Q, lower the CD, and possibly even jack up the healing it gives. The difference would be that instead of being able to perpetually spam it, you would be limited to 3-4 casts before running OOM in lane. yeah, I mean you could make Vladimir work with mana by completely reworking him and chaging everything about him. However, I don't see how that shows that manaless champions don't increase diversity. I don't see how Vlad is a mess either. His mid and lategame is very interesting as he is a short-ranged DPS-ey AP, but despite that he is very safe in teamfights thanks to pool. We've seen him used effectivelly in the past most intriguingly in Kog'Maw based teamcomps because of this unique role. Early game his sustain is mostly cooldown and partially aggresiveness dependant, which I think is very interesting and creates an interesting dynamic especially when junglers are involved (in top lane).
I actually think Vladimir is fine being a manaless champion, because two of his spells require his health to cast and they are actually quite costly for his health pool. Dr Mundo, imo, is also fine for similar reasons.
I also think Rumble is fine, because his resource system is actually quite intricate.
What I think are not fine:
1. Garen. There is absolutely NO REASON at all why he should not have mana. Seriously. You can also make his passive give extra mana regen based on max mana in addition to health - he will be perfectly fine and easier to balance as a mana champion.
2. Akali. Energy + ammo. WTF is this.
3. Lee Sin. Passive regenerates Energy + spammable shield. WTF is this.
4. Riven. See 3, except even worse.
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wow, such great news and good fortune today
DnG will be attending ipl6, we qualified today through the TSM tourney
with curse academy and cloud9 being the 2 remaining teams in the loser's bracket, and both having already qualified for ipl6, regardless of how we place, both DnG and Square Duck will get the other 2 IPL6 invites
any TLers going to ipl6? meet up with me? 
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United States23745 Posts
On February 24 2013 13:59 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 13:06 Scip wrote:On February 24 2013 12:40 Two_DoWn wrote:
Vlad would easily work as a mana champion, and would actually likely be BETTER if he was one.
You would be able to put more power into his Q, lower the CD, and possibly even jack up the healing it gives. The difference would be that instead of being able to perpetually spam it, you would be limited to 3-4 casts before running OOM in lane. yeah, I mean you could make Vladimir work with mana by completely reworking him and chaging everything about him. However, I don't see how that shows that manaless champions don't increase diversity. I don't see how Vlad is a mess either. His mid and lategame is very interesting as he is a short-ranged DPS-ey AP, but despite that he is very safe in teamfights thanks to pool. We've seen him used effectivelly in the past most intriguingly in Kog'Maw based teamcomps because of this unique role. Early game his sustain is mostly cooldown and partially aggresiveness dependant, which I think is very interesting and creates an interesting dynamic especially when junglers are involved (in top lane). I actually think Vladimir is fine being a manaless champion, because two of his spells require his health to cast and they are actually quite costly for his health pool. Dr Mundo, imo, is also fine for similar reasons. I also think Rumble is fine, because his resource system is actually quite intricate. What I think are not fine: 1. Garen. There is absolutely NO REASON at all why he should not have mana. Seriously. You can also make his passive give extra mana regen based on max mana in addition to health - he will be perfectly fine and easier to balance as a mana champion. 2. Akali. Energy + ammo. WTF is this. 3. Lee Sin. Passive regenerates Energy + spammable shield. WTF is this. 4. Riven. See 3, except even worse.
In regards to Vlad, sure you notice the health cost early game, but mid game and on he gets to the point it doesn't even matter, especially where Q starts to heal for a decent chunk.
Edit: Uhg don't get me started on Akali
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So twice in a row now I've tried to queue a ranked game and the Adobe AIR client has crashed, kicking me offline. How can I fix this and has this been happening to anyone else?
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Is it just me or are low level (like 5-7) games filled with complete raging assholes lol? Trying to level up an alt to play ranked with my friends and it is like miserable hour long games every time -_-
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On February 24 2013 14:34 Mondeezy wrote:
Is it just me or are low level (like 5-7) games filled with complete raging assholes lol? Trying to level up an alt to play ranked with my friends and it is like miserable hour long games every time -_-
It's full of smurfs and PBU.
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United States23745 Posts
On February 24 2013 14:38 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 14:34 Mondeezy wrote:
Is it just me or are low level (like 5-7) games filled with complete raging assholes lol? Trying to level up an alt to play ranked with my friends and it is like miserable hour long games every time -_- It's full of smurfs and PBU.
Just grind out some bot games, shouldn't take too long to get past that point.
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On February 24 2013 14:38 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 14:34 Mondeezy wrote:
Is it just me or are low level (like 5-7) games filled with complete raging assholes lol? Trying to level up an alt to play ranked with my friends and it is like miserable hour long games every time -_- It's full of smurfs and PBU.
And a lot of the PBU/smurfs can't handle the fact that legitimately newbies will epicly feed almost every single game.
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On February 24 2013 14:40 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 14:38 Craton wrote:On February 24 2013 14:34 Mondeezy wrote:
Is it just me or are low level (like 5-7) games filled with complete raging assholes lol? Trying to level up an alt to play ranked with my friends and it is like miserable hour long games every time -_- It's full of smurfs and PBU. And a lot of the PBU/smurfs can't handle the fact that legitimately newbies will epicly feed almost every single game.
They're PBUs for a reason...
For new players, they really should heavily encourage them to play AI games before jumping into normals. If they're really smart, they could somehow estimate their MMR based on their performance in bot games, so they wouldn't have to run into smurfs at all.
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
On February 24 2013 14:15 gtrsrs wrote:wow, such great news and good fortune today DnG will be attending ipl6, we qualified today through the TSM tourney with curse academy and cloud9 being the 2 remaining teams in the loser's bracket, and both having already qualified for ipl6, regardless of how we place, both DnG and Square Duck will get the other 2 IPL6 invites any TLers going to ipl6? meet up with me?
congratulations!
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On February 24 2013 14:15 gtrsrs wrote:wow, such great news and good fortune today DnG will be attending ipl6, we qualified today through the TSM tourney with curse academy and cloud9 being the 2 remaining teams in the loser's bracket, and both having already qualified for ipl6, regardless of how we place, both DnG and Square Duck will get the other 2 IPL6 invites any TLers going to ipl6? meet up with me?
gratz, hope you guys do well
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On February 24 2013 14:42 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 14:40 Amui wrote:On February 24 2013 14:38 Craton wrote:On February 24 2013 14:34 Mondeezy wrote:
Is it just me or are low level (like 5-7) games filled with complete raging assholes lol? Trying to level up an alt to play ranked with my friends and it is like miserable hour long games every time -_- It's full of smurfs and PBU. And a lot of the PBU/smurfs can't handle the fact that legitimately newbies will epicly feed almost every single game. They're PBUs for a reason... For new players, they really should heavily encourage them to play AI games before jumping into normals. If they're really smart, they could somehow estimate their MMR based on their performance in bot games, so they wouldn't have to run into smurfs at all.
Like I don't mind the new players, I even try to help them if possible. It's just the people who are legitimately bad AND raging at everyone that make it a pain to play lol. But I never thought about bot games or dominion, I can do that I guess since I only play the account when I'm bored.
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EPT
