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[Patch 1.0.0.154: Preseason Balance Update 2] GD - Page 182

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AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-29 19:52:14
January 29 2013 19:51 GMT
#3621
On January 30 2013 04:42 Timerly wrote:
Thing is that if you use her spells to waveclear hard and turn on the turret pressure you won't have them while the minions are there. The main threat when 2v1ing with Leona comes from her ability to completely zone the opponen out of all ranged minions and sometimes even the melees if he has taken some harass because her EWQ(R) lets her towerdive at gusto with the ability to nearly always retreat. If you trade one for one because she died under tower the AD has freefarm and gets a lot of turret damage down while probably forcing your jungler to the lane. All of this is nonexistant if you empty her mana pool or use her spells to clear. She only realls works with the combo so using only one of them already diminishes her potential greatly. Lulu on the other hand waveclears with ease while maintaining the ability to pressure under tower though the Q's range and EQ combos due to her CDs (7s on Q vs 14s on Leona W).


Hmmmmmmm..........

On January 30 2013 04:20 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 04:07 DeltaBravo wrote:
On January 30 2013 03:55 nafta wrote:
On January 30 2013 03:50 sob3k wrote:
On January 30 2013 03:41 Timerly wrote:
Leona has shitty waveclear but Taric's is pretty decent given that shatter also amplifies the AD's damage. Not on Lulu's level but certainly better than most other supports.


wha? Leona has fine clear if you want it. Especially if the ad has any AOE. You just explode your shield all over the wave and then they proc sunlight with something. You can also zenith blade the wave for more sunlight.

Leona shield does almost exactly as much damage as lulu Q, more if you proc the sunlight, provided lulu isn't stacking ap. Plus it has a bigger AOE.


But she is melee,it has longer cd and it's harder to escape(or get a kill) in a 2v2 against bruisers with her.

The aoe doesn't really matter.If you can't hit the entire wave with a lulu q you are not pushing enough.


Also remember that this discussion on tower pushing duos was brought up in context to the 1v2 lanes that a lot of the pro scene have been running as opposed to the standard 2v2 bot lane. Unless the jungle just camps the lane and turns it into a perma 2v2, a Leona lane shouldn't have too much problem escaping a 1v2, assuming everyone is about equal on health. With pushing with W and E procs, sounds like Leona Sivir wouldn't be too too bad at pushing, as those Qs and bouncing blade would smash minions lit up by Leonas passive

Leona's wave clear is on a 14 second cooldown, Lulu's is on a 7 second cooldown. Lulu/Sivir is good at pushing lanes just like Lulu/Graves. A lot of people also just don't like playing Leona because of the all in nature of her play style. In terms of escaping a 2v2, if you're pushing the wave to tower and a jungler takes you from surprise you're going to have a hard time getting away as Leona. Plus Lulu can harass the opponent under tower with her ranged skills, something Leona can't really do. I think Leona is much better in a 2v1 where you're going to zone the enemy away from CS instead of taking an early tower.


SMUFT ACCT DETECTED.

On January 30 2013 04:50 wei2coolman wrote:
Whoa, running away as leona? You guys are playing her wrong. Balls to the walls. All the time.


Srsly, dats wut I wuz sayin
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
January 29 2013 19:51 GMT
#3622
On January 30 2013 04:48 little fancy wrote:
When does the new rating system come? I just realized how it works and have only spent time playing rankeds as 5. Now I'm in a hurry, need to get silver / gold asap. How much time do I have?

No set date, been on the PBE for a little bit, but I would guess still a couple weeks out.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
AsnSensation
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany24009 Posts
January 29 2013 19:53 GMT
#3623
ok whoever mentioned it the other day, I think it was outlaw, yep AP Nidalee is fuckng obnoxious to play against. can't catch that little cougar, her spear hurts like crazy and I just played against someone who had the tear fully stacked at 17minutes and a seraphs embrace 1 minute later. I consider banning her from now on because she's seen alot of play recently and in YoloQ often people wait to long to engage and 1 spear already forces most people to base and therefore lose/win the towersiege or barondance.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
January 29 2013 19:54 GMT
#3624
Just had the laning phase handed to me by my support. Who played Lulu. And could almost solo kill Varus and/or Alistar (seriously, the only reason he didn't get a double right away is that he missed his flash to dive Ali).
HOW DOES DO IT :<

I'm perplexed. And tired, so he doesn't matter, I have an excuse if I fail my next attempts.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Timerly
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany511 Posts
January 29 2013 19:54 GMT
#3625
On January 30 2013 04:51 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 04:42 Timerly wrote:
Thing is that if you use her spells to waveclear hard and turn on the turret pressure you won't have them while the minions are there. The main threat when 2v1ing with Leona comes from her ability to completely zone the opponen out of all ranged minions and sometimes even the melees if he has taken some harass because her EWQ(R) lets her towerdive at gusto with the ability to nearly always retreat. If you trade one for one because she died under tower the AD has freefarm and gets a lot of turret damage down while probably forcing your jungler to the lane. All of this is nonexistant if you empty her mana pool or use her spells to clear. She only realls works with the combo so using only one of them already diminishes her potential greatly. Lulu on the other hand waveclears with ease while maintaining the ability to pressure under tower though the Q's range and EQ combos due to her CDs (7s on Q vs 14s on Leona W).


Hmmmmmmm..........

Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 04:20 onlywonderboy wrote:
On January 30 2013 04:07 DeltaBravo wrote:
On January 30 2013 03:55 nafta wrote:
On January 30 2013 03:50 sob3k wrote:
On January 30 2013 03:41 Timerly wrote:
Leona has shitty waveclear but Taric's is pretty decent given that shatter also amplifies the AD's damage. Not on Lulu's level but certainly better than most other supports.


wha? Leona has fine clear if you want it. Especially if the ad has any AOE. You just explode your shield all over the wave and then they proc sunlight with something. You can also zenith blade the wave for more sunlight.

Leona shield does almost exactly as much damage as lulu Q, more if you proc the sunlight, provided lulu isn't stacking ap. Plus it has a bigger AOE.


But she is melee,it has longer cd and it's harder to escape(or get a kill) in a 2v2 against bruisers with her.

The aoe doesn't really matter.If you can't hit the entire wave with a lulu q you are not pushing enough.


Also remember that this discussion on tower pushing duos was brought up in context to the 1v2 lanes that a lot of the pro scene have been running as opposed to the standard 2v2 bot lane. Unless the jungle just camps the lane and turns it into a perma 2v2, a Leona lane shouldn't have too much problem escaping a 1v2, assuming everyone is about equal on health. With pushing with W and E procs, sounds like Leona Sivir wouldn't be too too bad at pushing, as those Qs and bouncing blade would smash minions lit up by Leonas passive

Leona's wave clear is on a 14 second cooldown, Lulu's is on a 7 second cooldown. Lulu/Sivir is good at pushing lanes just like Lulu/Graves. A lot of people also just don't like playing Leona because of the all in nature of her play style. In terms of escaping a 2v2, if you're pushing the wave to tower and a jungler takes you from surprise you're going to have a hard time getting away as Leona. Plus Lulu can harass the opponent under tower with her ranged skills, something Leona can't really do. I think Leona is much better in a 2v1 where you're going to zone the enemy away from CS instead of taking an early tower.


SMUFT ACCT DETECTED.

Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 04:50 wei2coolman wrote:
Whoa, running away as leona? You guys are playing her wrong. Balls to the walls. All the time.


Srsly, dats wut I wuz sayin


I just don't refresh my tabs enough^^
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
January 29 2013 19:56 GMT
#3626
On January 30 2013 04:54 Timerly wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 04:51 AsmodeusXI wrote:
On January 30 2013 04:42 Timerly wrote:
Thing is that if you use her spells to waveclear hard and turn on the turret pressure you won't have them while the minions are there. The main threat when 2v1ing with Leona comes from her ability to completely zone the opponen out of all ranged minions and sometimes even the melees if he has taken some harass because her EWQ(R) lets her towerdive at gusto with the ability to nearly always retreat. If you trade one for one because she died under tower the AD has freefarm and gets a lot of turret damage down while probably forcing your jungler to the lane. All of this is nonexistant if you empty her mana pool or use her spells to clear. She only realls works with the combo so using only one of them already diminishes her potential greatly. Lulu on the other hand waveclears with ease while maintaining the ability to pressure under tower though the Q's range and EQ combos due to her CDs (7s on Q vs 14s on Leona W).


Hmmmmmmm..........

On January 30 2013 04:20 onlywonderboy wrote:
On January 30 2013 04:07 DeltaBravo wrote:
On January 30 2013 03:55 nafta wrote:
On January 30 2013 03:50 sob3k wrote:
On January 30 2013 03:41 Timerly wrote:
Leona has shitty waveclear but Taric's is pretty decent given that shatter also amplifies the AD's damage. Not on Lulu's level but certainly better than most other supports.


wha? Leona has fine clear if you want it. Especially if the ad has any AOE. You just explode your shield all over the wave and then they proc sunlight with something. You can also zenith blade the wave for more sunlight.

Leona shield does almost exactly as much damage as lulu Q, more if you proc the sunlight, provided lulu isn't stacking ap. Plus it has a bigger AOE.


But she is melee,it has longer cd and it's harder to escape(or get a kill) in a 2v2 against bruisers with her.

The aoe doesn't really matter.If you can't hit the entire wave with a lulu q you are not pushing enough.


Also remember that this discussion on tower pushing duos was brought up in context to the 1v2 lanes that a lot of the pro scene have been running as opposed to the standard 2v2 bot lane. Unless the jungle just camps the lane and turns it into a perma 2v2, a Leona lane shouldn't have too much problem escaping a 1v2, assuming everyone is about equal on health. With pushing with W and E procs, sounds like Leona Sivir wouldn't be too too bad at pushing, as those Qs and bouncing blade would smash minions lit up by Leonas passive

Leona's wave clear is on a 14 second cooldown, Lulu's is on a 7 second cooldown. Lulu/Sivir is good at pushing lanes just like Lulu/Graves. A lot of people also just don't like playing Leona because of the all in nature of her play style. In terms of escaping a 2v2, if you're pushing the wave to tower and a jungler takes you from surprise you're going to have a hard time getting away as Leona. Plus Lulu can harass the opponent under tower with her ranged skills, something Leona can't really do. I think Leona is much better in a 2v1 where you're going to zone the enemy away from CS instead of taking an early tower.


SMUFT ACCT DETECTED.

On January 30 2013 04:50 wei2coolman wrote:
Whoa, running away as leona? You guys are playing her wrong. Balls to the walls. All the time.


Srsly, dats wut I wuz sayin


I just don't refresh my tabs enough^^


Lol. Time to step up your TL LoL lurkin' game. How else are you going to be on the forefront of the world of LoL?
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
Keniji
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Netherlands2569 Posts
January 29 2013 20:02 GMT
#3627
On January 30 2013 04:53 AsnSensation wrote:
ok whoever mentioned it the other day, I think it was outlaw, yep AP Nidalee is fuckng obnoxious to play against. can't catch that little cougar, her spear hurts like crazy and I just played against someone who had the tear fully stacked at 17minutes and a seraphs embrace 1 minute later. I consider banning her from now on because she's seen alot of play recently and in YoloQ often people wait to long to engage and 1 spear already forces most people to base and therefore lose/win the towersiege or barondance.


Agreed. In the last week she was perma banned status for me. Such an annoying champ. Also in soloQ never engage, or at least not before everyone is half health from spears.
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
January 29 2013 20:05 GMT
#3628
On January 30 2013 04:53 AsnSensation wrote:
ok whoever mentioned it the other day, I think it was outlaw, yep AP Nidalee is fuckng obnoxious to play against. can't catch that little cougar, her spear hurts like crazy and I just played against someone who had the tear fully stacked at 17minutes and a seraphs embrace 1 minute later. I consider banning her from now on because she's seen alot of play recently and in YoloQ often people wait to long to engage and 1 spear already forces most people to base and therefore lose/win the towersiege or barondance.

It's not just soloQ thing imo, I personally consider Nidalee one of the strongest champions atm and a very strong firstpick alongside things like Kayle and Elise. She is the most core champion to 2 very strong and extremely different teamcomps, the Nidalee splitpush and poke, yeah she isn't that good teamfight champion, but I don't think that's currently necessary. Nidalee also seems to be the most played champion in the czech LoL scene from what I've seen, lol.

About Leona, idk much about bottom lane, need Enten to explain that stuff for me lol, but she is extremely good past laning phase. I'd personally rate her ability to engage as 2nd best, next to Ashe, simply because support going in first is so much more threatening that a jungler or a top laner. If I were to run a team I'd pick her to a great amount of teamcomps, but not necessarily for her laning.
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
Chrispy
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada5878 Posts
January 29 2013 20:33 GMT
#3629
I hate Nidalee so much. Top lane she's nearly unbeatable if you don't play Olaf or Irelia and even then is guaranteed to push for years without consequence.

Mid lane at least she has pathetic early levels and if you play an abuser like Lee, Panth, even Gangplank, you can really bully her. If you don't absolutely crush her she'll still be relevant soon enough though. Her poke in Solo Queue is just retarded because the way to shut her down is to engage right away before she can land some spears but how often does that happen in Solo Queue. Sometimes you've got a shit team with no engage, sometimes you can't group fast enough, sometimes your amumu doesn't want to engage so you sit there and eat spears.

But Nid Mid has a lot of weaknesses early game and your jungler can invade the enemy jungle without consequence because she really can't do shit before she gets cougar. But this requires coordination.

I hate Nidalee and she doesn't deserve to be a good champion.
Retvrn to Forvms
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-29 20:37:46
January 29 2013 20:36 GMT
#3630
On January 30 2013 05:33 Chrispy wrote:
I hate Nidalee so much. Top lane she's nearly unbeatable if you don't play Olaf or Irelia and even then is guaranteed to push for years without consequence.

Mid lane at least she has pathetic early levels and if you play an abuser like Lee, Panth, even Gangplank, you can really bully her. If you don't absolutely crush her she'll still be relevant soon enough though. Her poke in Solo Queue is just retarded because the way to shut her down is to engage right away before she can land some spears but how often does that happen in Solo Queue. Sometimes you've got a shit team with no engage, sometimes you can't group fast enough, sometimes your amumu doesn't want to engage so you sit there and eat spears.

But Nid Mid has a lot of weaknesses early game and your jungler can invade the enemy jungle without consequence because she really can't do shit before she gets cougar. But this requires coordination.

I hate Nidalee and she doesn't deserve to be a good champion.

For some reason I find your post hilarious, especially the last sentence.
Nidalee with tanking item is a pain in the ass, but I feel like ap nida is quite weak against a team with good engage.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
Antyee
Profile Joined May 2011
Hungary1011 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-29 20:37:59
January 29 2013 20:36 GMT
#3631
Wickd going Karma top, if anyone's interested.
http://en.twitch.tv/wickd
"My spoon is too big."
Keniji
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Netherlands2569 Posts
January 29 2013 20:38 GMT
#3632
That taric build from the sup from GG (not edward) is ridiculous.

MPen reds, blues and quints, AP/lvl yellow. 20/10/0 masteries.

Sorc shoes first item.
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
January 29 2013 20:42 GMT
#3633
On January 30 2013 05:38 Keniji wrote:
That taric build from the sup from GG (not edward) is ridiculous.

MPen reds, blues and quints, AP/lvl yellow. 20/10/0 masteries.

Sorc shoes first item.


He should try support elise.....
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Mensol
Profile Joined September 2012
14536 Posts
January 29 2013 20:50 GMT
#3634
On January 30 2013 05:36 Antyee wrote:
Wickd going Karma top, if anyone's interested.
http://en.twitch.tv/wickd

TL'er Scip is on same team with him :d
If you don't know what the fuck you are doing, how are your enemies supposed to know what the fuck you are doing. - imaqtpie on NA teams at Worlds.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
January 29 2013 20:54 GMT
#3635
On January 30 2013 05:33 Chrispy wrote:
I hate Nidalee so much. Top lane she's nearly unbeatable if you don't play Olaf or Irelia and even then is guaranteed to push for years without consequence.

Mid lane at least she has pathetic early levels and if you play an abuser like Lee, Panth, even Gangplank, you can really bully her. If you don't absolutely crush her she'll still be relevant soon enough though. Her poke in Solo Queue is just retarded because the way to shut her down is to engage right away before she can land some spears but how often does that happen in Solo Queue. Sometimes you've got a shit team with no engage, sometimes you can't group fast enough, sometimes your amumu doesn't want to engage so you sit there and eat spears.

But Nid Mid has a lot of weaknesses early game and your jungler can invade the enemy jungle without consequence because she really can't do shit before she gets cougar. But this requires coordination.

I hate Nidalee and she doesn't deserve to be a good champion.


go xin top
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
January 29 2013 20:57 GMT
#3636
On January 30 2013 05:50 Mensol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 05:36 Antyee wrote:
Wickd going Karma top, if anyone's interested.
http://en.twitch.tv/wickd

TL'er Scip is on same team with him :d


"NO TARIC NO TARIC."

lol
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
zergnewb
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States816 Posts
January 29 2013 21:02 GMT
#3637
On January 30 2013 05:54 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 05:33 Chrispy wrote:
I hate Nidalee so much. Top lane she's nearly unbeatable if you don't play Olaf or Irelia and even then is guaranteed to push for years without consequence.

Mid lane at least she has pathetic early levels and if you play an abuser like Lee, Panth, even Gangplank, you can really bully her. If you don't absolutely crush her she'll still be relevant soon enough though. Her poke in Solo Queue is just retarded because the way to shut her down is to engage right away before she can land some spears but how often does that happen in Solo Queue. Sometimes you've got a shit team with no engage, sometimes you can't group fast enough, sometimes your amumu doesn't want to engage so you sit there and eat spears.

But Nid Mid has a lot of weaknesses early game and your jungler can invade the enemy jungle without consequence because she really can't do shit before she gets cougar. But this requires coordination.

I hate Nidalee and she doesn't deserve to be a good champion.


go xin top

So little miss kitty can do against the Zhao.
Welcome to the Durst-Zone
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
January 29 2013 21:03 GMT
#3638
On January 30 2013 05:42 sob3k wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 05:38 Keniji wrote:
That taric build from the sup from GG (not edward) is ridiculous.

MPen reds, blues and quints, AP/lvl yellow. 20/10/0 masteries.

Sorc shoes first item.


He should try support elise.....

I feel like this next patch is going to hurt support Elise a lot. The mana cost on her Q is getting jacked up by quite a bit so the harass is going to be neutered.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-29 21:04:31
January 29 2013 21:03 GMT
#3639
On January 30 2013 05:54 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 05:33 Chrispy wrote:
I hate Nidalee so much. Top lane she's nearly unbeatable if you don't play Olaf or Irelia and even then is guaranteed to push for years without consequence.

Mid lane at least she has pathetic early levels and if you play an abuser like Lee, Panth, even Gangplank, you can really bully her. If you don't absolutely crush her she'll still be relevant soon enough though. Her poke in Solo Queue is just retarded because the way to shut her down is to engage right away before she can land some spears but how often does that happen in Solo Queue. Sometimes you've got a shit team with no engage, sometimes you can't group fast enough, sometimes your amumu doesn't want to engage so you sit there and eat spears.

But Nid Mid has a lot of weaknesses early game and your jungler can invade the enemy jungle without consequence because she really can't do shit before she gets cougar. But this requires coordination.

I hate Nidalee and she doesn't deserve to be a good champion.


go xin top


qft

if she goes tabi sunfire frozen fist shit just rush LW
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
January 29 2013 21:13 GMT
#3640
On January 30 2013 06:03 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 05:42 sob3k wrote:
On January 30 2013 05:38 Keniji wrote:
That taric build from the sup from GG (not edward) is ridiculous.

MPen reds, blues and quints, AP/lvl yellow. 20/10/0 masteries.

Sorc shoes first item.


He should try support elise.....

I feel like this next patch is going to hurt support Elise a lot. The mana cost on her Q is getting jacked up by quite a bit so the harass is going to be neutered.


It's aimed against top elise a lot more. Right now elise beats basically every single melee because she has the harass of Teemo, in addition to having sustain(somewhat), stronger disengage and the ability to burst if you get low.

Porouscloud - NA LoL
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