EPT[Patch 1.0.0.154: Preseason Balance Update 2] GD - Page 181
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On January 30 2013 03:12 DeltaBravo wrote: Egh, for some reason it doesn't strike me as fantastic at killing towers, with Graves Asp nerf it seems like you'd be able to throw whatever top or mid laner out of lane for a bit, but I'd think you'd have a hard time taking towers. Lulu and Graves clear waves crazy fast with Glitterlance and Buckshot, that's what makes them good at taking towers. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On January 30 2013 03:24 koreasilver wrote: How well you are able to push the lane and threaten the opposing laner with large amounts of damage has a whole lot more to do with tower killing ability than just some abstract theorizing about how well you might take down a tower if you could just sit still and right click at it. Indeed, the minions do a lot of the damage earlygame. | ||
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DeltaBravo
United States119 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
Like, Taric and Leona don't offer the same kind of pushing and poking that something like Lulu or Sona would offer when the solo laner is just going to be sitting under the tower anyway. The faster you make your wave hit their tower, the faster you can start hitting the tower, and the more you can threaten the opposing laner the more you can zone them while also being able to push faster, etc. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On January 30 2013 02:36 Crownlol wrote: Anyone know why Swain isn't used more in competitive play? I've been playing with some friends far above my skill level (1800+, I'm not near that), and the only character I can hold my own with is Swain. I literally never lose mid lane, the worst I can do is tie. Strong single target, tanky, strong aoe... I'm surprised I never see him in pro/high teir games. I even played him top and did just fine against Wukong and Irelia (separate games). He has really bad pushing power and low range. He is strong vs other short range but not good vs a ton of popular mids who outrange and outpush him. I've never had an issue winning lane vs swain with like Viktor or Ziggs or Orianna types who I like to play. Swain's issue is that if he falls behind he falls REALLY behind, if he can't turn on ult and eat a bit of damage then he's really pitiful. | ||
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Timerly
Germany511 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23442 Posts
considering leona always maxes W when sometimes taric should be maxing Q it counts for something | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On January 30 2013 03:41 Timerly wrote: Leona has shitty waveclear but Taric's is pretty decent given that shatter also amplifies the AD's damage. Not on Lulu's level but certainly better than most other supports. wha? Leona has fine clear if you want it. Especially if the ad has any AOE. You just explode your shield all over the wave and then they proc sunlight with something. You can also zenith blade the wave for more sunlight. Leona shield does almost exactly as much damage as lulu Q, more if you proc the sunlight, provided lulu isn't stacking ap. Plus it has a bigger AOE. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On January 30 2013 03:50 sob3k wrote: wha? Leona has fine clear if you want it. Especially if the ad has any AOE. You just explode your shield all over the wave and then they proc sunlight with something. You can also zenith blade the wave for more sunlight. Leona shield does almost exactly as much damage as lulu Q, more if you proc the sunlight, provided lulu isn't stacking ap. Plus it has a bigger AOE. But she is melee,it has longer cd and it's harder to escape(or get a kill) in a 2v2 against bruisers with her. The aoe doesn't really matter.If you can't hit the entire wave with a lulu q you are not pushing enough. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
Oh, and she can hit the turret herself. What does Leona do when she reaches the turret 2v1? The only thing she can do is dive and peel. Lulu doesn't need to dive, and has rivalling peel powers. That said, there are times that diving the turret to force/kill them out of lane and take the turret is the game plan. Leona does pretty well in these situations after all. | ||
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DeltaBravo
United States119 Posts
On January 30 2013 03:55 nafta wrote: But she is melee,it has longer cd and it's harder to escape(or get a kill) in a 2v2 against bruisers with her. The aoe doesn't really matter.If you can't hit the entire wave with a lulu q you are not pushing enough. Also remember that this discussion on tower pushing duos was brought up in context to the 1v2 lanes that a lot of the pro scene have been running as opposed to the standard 2v2 bot lane. Unless the jungle just camps the lane and turns it into a perma 2v2, a Leona lane shouldn't have too much problem escaping a 1v2, assuming everyone is about equal on health. With pushing with W and E procs, sounds like Leona Sivir wouldn't be too too bad at pushing, as those Qs and bouncing blade would smash minions lit up by Leonas passive | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
Kind of off topic but why isn't lulu picked every game ever?She is easily the best support at any point of the game yet a lot of people don't seem to understand that lol.And unlike a lot of other supports you can do a lot in a tf and be very useful no matter what. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On January 30 2013 04:07 DeltaBravo wrote: Also remember that this discussion on tower pushing duos was brought up in context to the 1v2 lanes that a lot of the pro scene have been running as opposed to the standard 2v2 bot lane. Unless the jungle just camps the lane and turns it into a perma 2v2, a Leona lane shouldn't have too much problem escaping a 1v2, assuming everyone is about equal on health. With pushing with W and E procs, sounds like Leona Sivir wouldn't be too too bad at pushing, as those Qs and bouncing blade would smash minions lit up by Leonas passive Leona's wave clear is on a 14 second cooldown, Lulu's is on a 7 second cooldown. Lulu/Sivir is good at pushing lanes just like Lulu/Graves. A lot of people also just don't like playing Leona because of the all in nature of her play style. In terms of escaping a 2v2, if you're pushing the wave to tower and a jungler takes you from surprise you're going to have a hard time getting away as Leona. Plus Lulu can harass the opponent under tower with her ranged skills, something Leona can't really do. I think Leona is much better in a 2v1 where you're going to zone the enemy away from CS instead of taking an early tower. | ||
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DeltaBravo
United States119 Posts
On January 30 2013 04:20 onlywonderboy wrote: Leona's wave clear is on a 14 second cooldown, Lulu's is on a 7 second cooldown. Lulu/Sivir is good at pushing lanes just like Lulu/Graves. A lot of people also just don't like playing Leona because of the all in nature of her play style. In terms of escaping a 2v2, if you're pushing the wave to tower and a jungler takes you from surprise you're going to have a hard time getting away as Leona. Plus Lulu can harass the opponent under tower with her ranged skills, something Leona can't really do. I think Leona is much better in a 2v1 where you're going to zone the enemy away from CS instead of taking an early tower. Agreed, from playing a handful of 2v1s or just utterly smashing a normal bottom lane, leona definitely has the fear factor to keep people far away from the creep wave. Putting a 2v2 that way, you're right, its a bitch to escape, especially when pushed to their turret. Also whats the kind of team mentality that someone should have picking a 2v1 lane to either zone out the enemy sololaner or just kill tower. The times I've run into it on Ranked it seemed that the 2v1 were way too pasive, and although they shut out the sololaner from CS, it seemed like they could do more. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On January 30 2013 04:29 DeltaBravo wrote: Agreed, from playing a handful of 2v1s or just utterly smashing a normal bottom lane, leona definitely has the fear factor to keep people far away from the creep wave. Putting a 2v2 that way, you're right, its a bitch to escape, especially when pushed to their turret. Also whats the kind of team mentality that someone should have picking a 2v1 lane to either zone out the enemy sololaner or just kill tower. The times I've run into it on Ranked it seemed that the 2v1 were way too pasive, and although they shut out the sololaner from CS, it seemed like they could do more. Big problem with that is a lane swap is usually more than just flipping lanes, there's a lot of team coordination that gets lost if you aren't playing 5s. Chances are they could have done more, people just don't know how to play it to it's maximum efficiency. | ||
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On January 30 2013 04:20 onlywonderboy wrote: Leona's wave clear is on a 14 second cooldown, Lulu's is on a 7 second cooldown. Lulu/Sivir is good at pushing lanes just like Lulu/Graves. A lot of people also just don't like playing Leona because of the all in nature of her play style. In terms of escaping a 2v2, if you're pushing the wave to tower and a jungler takes you from surprise you're going to have a hard time getting away as Leona. Plus Lulu can harass the opponent under tower with her ranged skills, something Leona can't really do. I think Leona is much better in a 2v1 where you're going to zone the enemy away from CS instead of taking an early tower. Everything here is correct except the all-in nature is EXACTLY why people love to play Leona. ALWAYS MAKE PLAYS NEVER NOT MAKE PLAYS. She is the stun train, ALL ABOARD. Edit: Leona is my fav champ. | ||
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Timerly
Germany511 Posts
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little fancy
Germany2504 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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