EPT[Patch 1.0.0.154: Preseason Balance Update 2] GD - Page 184
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On January 30 2013 07:27 Slayer91 wrote: The reason people don't like junglers getting kills, is because kills directly help that lane while jungler kills only help when the jungler ganks. It's shitty reasoning sometimes but often you want your laner to get a kill so you can ignore that lane and hope he cements an advantage. I think that logic is somewhat faulty. Yes a naut is not going to do as much with 150 more gold, but TBH the advantage is pretty small if you look at what 150g can actually do for you. A vast majority of the advantage gained from the gank is just the relative advantage in xp&CS from what the other guy loses to tower. | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
The main exception is that you TYPICALLY want ADs to get kills because their scaling is really multiplicative with arpen, as, crit, ad, and crit damage being 5 damage enhancing stats while tanks use 3 (-as, resist, hp) or 2 (resist,hp vs magic) | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On January 30 2013 07:57 kainzero wrote: the reason people don't like junglers getting kills is because everyone thinks they're better than the other guy on the team Lol. This is most true. You won't lose many games because your jungler ganked and got the kill while the opposing jungler didn't. Junglers generally get less farm overall(less multiplicative scaling) and they don't have the ranged AD's safety and scaling so it makes sense to not give them kills. But I see people go way too overboard with this logic. My Xin from a few days ago ganked an MF and our Ashe was low. Xin walked away because "he didn't want to steal the kill". Ashe died to ignite right after MF died to Ashe. Great now your AD carry is dead and can't CS so that 6 extra cs he would have gained from the kill is lost on the opportunity to farm and push a tower and the enemy AD also gets gold. Does anyone know how much gold you lose potentially if you reset your kill spree? For instance If you went 0-4 in lane, should you try somewhat hard not to get kills? Since if you do get a kill then you're suddenly worth 450 gold again to the enemy team. Conversely if you're on a killing spree, do you ever try to die to a support after getting low in a fight so your bounty will reset? | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On January 30 2013 08:00 Slayer91 wrote: There's no reason why a naut investing 1k in defensive stats is somehow less effective than a ap mid who has 1k more in terms of damage. Tanks stats by definition counter damage stats. And in certain situations having a farmed tank is more important than a farmed AP. For example having a naut that's too tanky to kill suddenly means their AD has to run from you since naut does quite a bit of damage against squishies and suddenly that stifles their damage output while having a bit more AP on your AP carry mightn't mean a lot when they're being zoned by the enemy tank line. The main exception is that you TYPICALLY want ADs to get kills because their scaling is really multiplicative with arpen, as, crit, ad, and crit damage being 5 damage enhancing stats while tanks use 3 (-as, resist, hp) or 2 (resist,hp vs magic) You wanna give kills to people who will potentially have the most gold on team. Giving 5 kills to naut while he has 100 cs at 30min makes him as strong as an AD carry who has 0 kills but 200 cs. On the other hand if you give 5 kills to your top laner who will also have 200 cs at 30min makes him the strongest champion in the game and hence the carry. Thus I think giving kills to junglers who can't clear is very very bad. | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On January 30 2013 08:08 zulu_nation8 wrote: You wanna give kills to people who will potentially have the most gold on team. Giving 5 kills to naut while he has 100 cs at 30min makes him as strong as an AD carry who has 0 kills but 200 cs. On the other hand if you give 5 kills to your top laner who will also have 200 cs at 30min makes him the strongest champion in the game and hence the carry. Thus I think giving kills to junglers who can't clear is very very bad. Naut has very very good clear A naut who will get insta gibbed as he goes in is useless, for anything but qing tanks, a naut who's tanky enough to flash on a squishy and lock him down can win a teamfight. AD carries can only do something if there are other threats on the team. Stacking all your gold on 1 person is a bad idea because CC means you can always focus that target. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
In theory, stacking multiplicative gold value on a hero is higher value than spread out gold, but Locket/Bulwark/Zeke's/etc. have high flat gold value for everyone. Giving an AD those kills doesn't enable them to buy those team items because of slot limitations, but enabling a jungler to get those items significantly sooner has a tremendous effect on your team's midgame combat ability, especially since the effect of multiplicative scaling on single champions isn't that pronounced at the point where you only have 1-2 major items. | ||
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susySquark
United States1692 Posts
Maknoon Cloud Templar Alex Ich WeiXiao Madlife "Team Alex and the Asians" ahahhaa | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 30 2013 08:22 Slayer91 wrote: lol Did you just edit and then not change anything? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
![[image loading]](http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mad8a4hnAK1r6aoq4o1_250.gif) | ||
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GettingIt
1656 Posts
On January 30 2013 08:18 zulu_nation8 wrote: tanks cant carry, if you take gold you should be building damage. I disagree that tanks can't carry, but I agree that the damage dealers should be having the kills. Also its important for the jungler to give kills to the laner so that that lane can snowball and no longer require kills allowing the jungler to camp other lanes. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On January 30 2013 08:51 GettingIt wrote: I disagree that tanks can't carry, but I agree that the damage dealers should be having the kills. Why? Remember kills aren't the huge portion of your gold. You can imagine it as a 10% booster pack to your team overall and maybe is stronger 30-40% of your gold if you got a lot of them. Spending more in damage is an increase in the POTENTIAL dps of your team and building tank stats reduces their DPS (might as well assume hp reduces their dps since it takes longer to kill you). The difference is building tank stuff lets you get closer to their high damage low hp targets and if you kill just one of them you are at a huge advantage in a teamfight meaning building a warmogs so you can survive long enough to kill their AD carry in a teamfight without dying as an assassin is far preferable to doing 50% of a tanks health with your combo over 30% of their tanks health. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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