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On December 20 2012 12:42 Alaric wrote:
Well Swain gets destroyed like no other by Ryze, TIL. Even if he didn't get that blue at 4 from my jungler you can't trade at all past 3.
Is this a joke? Play me Ryze vs Swain and see which side gets destroyed. It's not even close. Swain at lvl 4 probably benefits the least from blue buff of all the mana mid champions so I have no idea what you're talking about there. He trades just fine pre 6, trades way better after 6. Also Ryze will run out of mana long before he comes close to pushing Swain out of lane, Swain is always full mana pre 6 is you play properly.
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On December 20 2012 16:41 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 12:42 Alaric wrote:
Well Swain gets destroyed like no other by Ryze, TIL. Even if he didn't get that blue at 4 from my jungler you can't trade at all past 3. Is this a joke? Play me Ryze vs Swain and see which side gets destroyed. It's not even close.
Swain loses to ryze about as badly as he beats fizz
read: almost never
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On December 20 2012 16:51 seRapH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 16:41 Feartheguru wrote:On December 20 2012 12:42 Alaric wrote:
Well Swain gets destroyed like no other by Ryze, TIL. Even if he didn't get that blue at 4 from my jungler you can't trade at all past 3. Is this a joke? Play me Ryze vs Swain and see which side gets destroyed. It's not even close. Swain loses to ryze about as badly as he beats fizz read: almost never
Have 0 idea what you are saying but those are basically Swain's easiest 2 matchups.
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On December 20 2012 16:55 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 16:51 seRapH wrote:On December 20 2012 16:41 Feartheguru wrote:On December 20 2012 12:42 Alaric wrote:
Well Swain gets destroyed like no other by Ryze, TIL. Even if he didn't get that blue at 4 from my jungler you can't trade at all past 3. Is this a joke? Play me Ryze vs Swain and see which side gets destroyed. It's not even close. Swain loses to ryze about as badly as he beats fizz read: almost never Have 0 idea what you are saying but those are basically Swain's easiest 2 matchups.
wat. fizz has a free healing debuff and he can dodge swain's nevermove np. He also outbursts Swain with his Q+W combo... You might be able to bully Fizz around as Swain for the first few levels, but after a while he can out-trade you np.
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On December 20 2012 17:03 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 16:55 Feartheguru wrote:On December 20 2012 16:51 seRapH wrote:On December 20 2012 16:41 Feartheguru wrote:On December 20 2012 12:42 Alaric wrote:
Well Swain gets destroyed like no other by Ryze, TIL. Even if he didn't get that blue at 4 from my jungler you can't trade at all past 3. Is this a joke? Play me Ryze vs Swain and see which side gets destroyed. It's not even close. Swain loses to ryze about as badly as he beats fizz read: almost never Have 0 idea what you are saying but those are basically Swain's easiest 2 matchups. wat. fizz has a free healing debuff and he can dodge swain's nevermove np. He also outbursts Swain with his Q+W combo... You might be able to bully Fizz around as Swain for the first few levels, but after a while he can out-trade you np.
This is a common misconception among people that never play Swain or Fizz. In 1v1 Swain's ult healing isn't a big deal, halving that means basically nothing. People who just theorycraft like to think it actually means something. Swain can bully fizz indefinitely before 6, fizz literally cannot get any cs. Dodging nevermove doesn't mean anything either. Swains don't randomly throw out nevermoves, if you want to trade as fizz you have to q in then disengage with e. Swain just use nevermove after, like he would with any other matchup.
How does he outburst with q+w lol... if he q w and then e out, just e from swain does 2/3 the damage, how many times are you gonna do that before you have no mana.
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Admittedly I've played the matchup twice, but why can't you save pole for nevermove and use q to fight?
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Noobville17921 Posts
On December 20 2012 17:07 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 17:03 Ryuu314 wrote:On December 20 2012 16:55 Feartheguru wrote:On December 20 2012 16:51 seRapH wrote:On December 20 2012 16:41 Feartheguru wrote:On December 20 2012 12:42 Alaric wrote:
Well Swain gets destroyed like no other by Ryze, TIL. Even if he didn't get that blue at 4 from my jungler you can't trade at all past 3. Is this a joke? Play me Ryze vs Swain and see which side gets destroyed. It's not even close. Swain loses to ryze about as badly as he beats fizz read: almost never Have 0 idea what you are saying but those are basically Swain's easiest 2 matchups. wat. fizz has a free healing debuff and he can dodge swain's nevermove np. He also outbursts Swain with his Q+W combo... You might be able to bully Fizz around as Swain for the first few levels, but after a while he can out-trade you np. This is a common misconception among people that never play Swain or Fizz. In 1v1 Swain's ult healing isn't a big deal, halving that means basically nothing. People who just theorycraft like to think it actually means something. Swain can bully fizz indefinitely before 6, fizz literally cannot get any cs. Dodging nevermove doesn't mean anything either. Swains don't randomly throw out nevermoves, if you want to trade as fizz you have to q in then disengage with e. Swain just use nevermove after, like he would with any other matchup. How does he outburst with q+w lol... if he q w and then e out, just e from swain does 2/3 the damage, how many times are you gonna do that before you have no mana.
Ya swain dumps fizz so hard lol. never played him against ryze but im not sure, having to get in range to throw e means you might eat a few red balls and snares so idk about that one.
people who think fizz counters swain because he has a healing debuff are sorely mistaken
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On December 20 2012 17:10 seRapH wrote:
Admittedly I've played the matchup twice, but why can't you save pole for nevermove and use q to fight?
Because pole is a large chunk of your dmg, and nevermove is a utility spell. Just think about it. If you q in as fizz, you get 1 auto, for the sake of argument lets say 2. Then you get e q from swain, you get slowed. if you pole out now he'ss nevermove you after, else he'll auto you as you walk away, Swain wins either way. In fact, even if you e out and he misses nevermove (quite possible), just eq and a few autos from swain does more than your q and few autos. This is not even considering Swain has unlimited mana pre 6 from last hitting and you don't.
If you fully commit you just get destroyed. Swain does a lot of dmg, people don't play him because a lot of mids shove the lane in, they get to roam and swain can't farm.
Since the changes I think Swain top is strong, bottle 2 ward 3 pot, wins a lot of lanes really really really hard and getting ganked issue is gone.
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On December 20 2012 17:15 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 17:07 Feartheguru wrote:On December 20 2012 17:03 Ryuu314 wrote:On December 20 2012 16:55 Feartheguru wrote:On December 20 2012 16:51 seRapH wrote:On December 20 2012 16:41 Feartheguru wrote:On December 20 2012 12:42 Alaric wrote:
Well Swain gets destroyed like no other by Ryze, TIL. Even if he didn't get that blue at 4 from my jungler you can't trade at all past 3. Is this a joke? Play me Ryze vs Swain and see which side gets destroyed. It's not even close. Swain loses to ryze about as badly as he beats fizz read: almost never Have 0 idea what you are saying but those are basically Swain's easiest 2 matchups. wat. fizz has a free healing debuff and he can dodge swain's nevermove np. He also outbursts Swain with his Q+W combo... You might be able to bully Fizz around as Swain for the first few levels, but after a while he can out-trade you np. This is a common misconception among people that never play Swain or Fizz. In 1v1 Swain's ult healing isn't a big deal, halving that means basically nothing. People who just theorycraft like to think it actually means something. Swain can bully fizz indefinitely before 6, fizz literally cannot get any cs. Dodging nevermove doesn't mean anything either. Swains don't randomly throw out nevermoves, if you want to trade as fizz you have to q in then disengage with e. Swain just use nevermove after, like he would with any other matchup. How does he outburst with q+w lol... if he q w and then e out, just e from swain does 2/3 the damage, how many times are you gonna do that before you have no mana. Ya swain dumps fizz so hard lol. never played him against ryze but im not sure, having to get in range to throw e means you might eat a few red balls and snares so idk about that one. people who think fizz counters swain because he has a healing debuff are sorely mistaken
Swain beats Ryze as badly as Fizz, e 2 ticks of q and 1 auto is the same damage as a w and 2 q from Ryze, Swain will be full mana always pre 6 if you last hit, Ryze is oom after 2 trades.
Not to mention Ryze has to stand to fight, so free nevermove, this is the only matchup where Swain gets that. I actually use w so rarely in lane with Swain I didn't account for it, usually the threat of it does more than throwing it out randomly in lane trades where it'll always miss.
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Vi thoughts (I played her top lane):
She does lots of damage, but it's somewhat hard to initiate with Q, since to get the full range you give the opponent TONS of time to run away. Now obviously most of the people I played against didn't know her at all, so I was able to land most of my Qs, but as people learn her I doubt this will keep happening.
She does huge damage with a full combo, which is Q -> auto -> E (reset)-> auto -> E (reset)-> auto -> ult -> auto (-> ignite) even with only dorans. However I've found that during most of the game, I have extreme trouble sticking to people once I Q. It's only a short knockup, plus the animation on her E is pretty slow; if I'm behind on movement speed, they can get away pretty easily after one E.
Itemization:
She has huge bonus AD scaling, and her passive scales with health, and she has troubles sticking to a target, so I build health + AD + cc:
BC + mallet + BotRK. BC + mallet are core on her, they are probably the two best health + AD items for her, and mallet helps with her sticking power issues. After that, situational depending on teamcomp/game flow. Warmog's is good for general tank, mercurial scimitar if they have lots of cc, atma's for armor, Maw for MR, GA if I'm fed.
I don't like CDR on her, since her W is a passive, and her E has a cooldown of 1 second, so CDR would only help her Q and ult. I also don't think AS is needed due to Q, same for armor pen. I think BC is plenty armor pen for her. Haven't tried crit on her, but seems mostly useless since you don't build lots of crit/AS, and you'll be too squishy if you do. Have read that people are going Tri-Force + warmog's, but I tried that one game and couldn't stick to anyone worth a damn.
Always start doran's, due to giving health + AD. I've been doing doran x2 -> boots -> some combination of brutalizer/phage/bilgewater
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I've been told that Vi's passive scales with CDR, so it still has a use
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interestingly enough, i wasn't too hyped for vi until i heard her intro music.... then again i'm a bit tipsy so i'm easily influenced.
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Noobville17921 Posts
On December 20 2012 17:20 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 17:15 arb wrote:On December 20 2012 17:07 Feartheguru wrote:On December 20 2012 17:03 Ryuu314 wrote:On December 20 2012 16:55 Feartheguru wrote:On December 20 2012 16:51 seRapH wrote:On December 20 2012 16:41 Feartheguru wrote:On December 20 2012 12:42 Alaric wrote:
Well Swain gets destroyed like no other by Ryze, TIL. Even if he didn't get that blue at 4 from my jungler you can't trade at all past 3. Is this a joke? Play me Ryze vs Swain and see which side gets destroyed. It's not even close. Swain loses to ryze about as badly as he beats fizz read: almost never Have 0 idea what you are saying but those are basically Swain's easiest 2 matchups. wat. fizz has a free healing debuff and he can dodge swain's nevermove np. He also outbursts Swain with his Q+W combo... You might be able to bully Fizz around as Swain for the first few levels, but after a while he can out-trade you np. This is a common misconception among people that never play Swain or Fizz. In 1v1 Swain's ult healing isn't a big deal, halving that means basically nothing. People who just theorycraft like to think it actually means something. Swain can bully fizz indefinitely before 6, fizz literally cannot get any cs. Dodging nevermove doesn't mean anything either. Swains don't randomly throw out nevermoves, if you want to trade as fizz you have to q in then disengage with e. Swain just use nevermove after, like he would with any other matchup. How does he outburst with q+w lol... if he q w and then e out, just e from swain does 2/3 the damage, how many times are you gonna do that before you have no mana. Ya swain dumps fizz so hard lol. never played him against ryze but im not sure, having to get in range to throw e means you might eat a few red balls and snares so idk about that one. people who think fizz counters swain because he has a healing debuff are sorely mistaken Swain beats Ryze as badly as Fizz, e 2 ticks of q and 1 auto is the same damage as a w and 2 q from Ryze, Swain will be full mana always pre 6 if you last hit, Ryze is oom after 2 trades. Not to mention Ryze has to stand to fight, so free nevermove, this is the only matchup where Swain gets that. I actually use w so rarely in lane with Swain I didn't account for it, usually the threat of it does more than throwing it out randomly in lane trades where it'll always miss.
That's always nice to know, ive never actually played Swain vs Ryze, since usually ill use him as a counterpick to Ahri/Diana or something. nice to know tahts another match up i can pick him safely into
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On December 20 2012 15:40 HazMat wrote:
lol, I lolking'd myself and apparently there's a level 30 ShakeDrizzle on EU.west now. Guys, I made it big. People buying namechanges to be like me.
Dafuq, I though you knew about it already. Lolking'd your id like 3 weeks ago and hes there already.
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So I had an epiphany tonight and I felt I needed to share it with TL. People are only playing Ezreal because he's all flashy and showy with his crazy mystic shots and essence flux when in reality Corki is still better than Ezreal (while also being about ten times manlier). I mean his passive is that he just GETS true damage! And he has armor shred! And in mid game he does half your health in magic damage! Why do people even play other AD carries?
He's nearly as safe as Ezreal in lane. His mid game is better than every other AD carry still (except maybe Graves but fuck Graves). And his late game is only eclipsed by the OP trinity of Vayne/Kog/Trist. Late game Corki with his bullshit armor shred and 10% true damage per auto probably even rivals Vayne's W but I'm too lazy to math that out.
When will this community remember that Corki is still king of bot lane? I mean one of his skins he rids a god damn manatee like he's on some kind of crazy acid trip.
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United States37500 Posts
On December 20 2012 17:53 overt wrote:
So I had an epiphany tonight and I felt I needed to share it with TL. People are only playing Ezreal because he's all flashy and showy with his crazy mystic shots and essence flux when in reality Corki is still better than Ezreal (while also being about ten times manlier). I mean his passive is that he just GETS true damage! And he has armor shred! And in mid game he does half your health in magic damage! Why do people even play other AD carries?
He's nearly as safe as Ezreal in lane. His mid game is better than every other AD carry still (except maybe Graves but fuck Graves). And his late game is only eclipsed by the OP trinity of Vayne/Kog/Trist. Late game Corki with his bullshit armor shred and 10% true damage per auto probably even rivals Vayne's W but I'm too lazy to math that out.
When will this community remember that Corki is still king of bot lane? I mean one of his skins he rids a god damn manatee like he's on some kind of crazy acid trip.
On paper, Corki is better than Ezreal in terms of an ADC but Ez is much easier to play in lane. Corki has been and remains extremely mana intensive, especially compared to Ez. Ez also pokes much better than Corki.
Ez bandwagon really started back when people realized that W max first is insanely good during laning phase. But since then, W got nerf and people should have gotten off the Ez bandwagon but they haven't yet.
I agree that Corki (and Twitch) should and will be on a rise again in S3. Draven I'm having my doubts lately for various reason. In a recent AMA, Double said that range is king for ADC. Ez might not have a long range auto attack but dat Q certainly fills in whenever possible.
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Essence Flux is also the most ridiculous escape amongst all other ad carries, especially when compared to the bullshit that is valkyrie or rocket jump.
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I think Ez E versus Corki W is really the biggest advantage you get with Ez. Come late game Corki R is much better poke than Ez Q. Corki's burst is higher, he's gonna do a ton more damage in late game fights, and his biggest problem is just that valk can be fucked up by the enemy team.
But in lane if a jungler is coming to gank and you don't get it messed up Valkyrie is way better than Essence Flux just because of the huge range it covers. I also just really like Corki and am sick of seeing Ez all the time when I think that Corki is definitely 100% better than Ezreal now that Ez W is nerfed. People just don't like managing mana on their ADC (which is understandable).
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On December 20 2012 18:05 seRapH wrote:
Essence Flux is also the most ridiculous escape amongst all other ad carries, especially when compared to the bullshit that is valkyrie or rocket jump.
I think you mean Arcane Shift
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On December 20 2012 18:08 MooMooMugi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 18:05 seRapH wrote:
Essence Flux is also the most ridiculous escape amongst all other ad carries, especially when compared to the bullshit that is valkyrie or rocket jump. I think you mean Arcane Shift
I do mean arcane shift.
HIS SPELL NAMES ARE STUPID OK
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EPT
