• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:02
CEST 01:02
KST 08:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists22[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9
Community News
RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event8Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results02026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool MaNa leaves Team Liquid
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) SC2 INu's Battles#15 <BO.9 2Matches> WardiTV Spring Cup SEL Masters #6 - Solar vs Classic (SC: Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss
Brood War
General
Why there arent any 256x256 pro maps? ASL21 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Pros React To: Leta vs Tulbo (ASL S21, Ro.8)
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Dawn of War IV Diablo IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1854 users

[Patch 1.0.0.153: Preseason Balance Update 1] GD - Page 284

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 282 283 284 285 286 451 Next
nojitosunrise
Profile Joined August 2011
United States6188 Posts
January 04 2013 21:03 GMT
#5661
On January 05 2013 05:53 Phunkapotamus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2013 05:52 TheYango wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:51 Phunkapotamus wrote:
These lists are bullshit though.

From Lolking: "Percentages are based on weekly data sets, all regions and leagues."
Invoker is super low on the dota list because scrubs can't press buttons. However, we all know he's extremely strong in high level play.

I know riot cares about low elo, but TL sure doesn't, and shouldn't.

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire to.

Invoker's not even that good in high level play anymore after his most recent nerfs lol. Good situationally, but have to pick him into good matchups, otherwise he gets crushed.


Ah, then I'm outdated with Dota2. My point still stands from my edited post, so I'll put it here:

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire towards- without diminishing higher level options.


That mindset doesn't work. If you alienate your casual playerbase, your game will die. .
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-04 21:10:29
January 04 2013 21:05 GMT
#5662
On January 05 2013 05:53 Phunkapotamus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2013 05:52 TheYango wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:51 Phunkapotamus wrote:
These lists are bullshit though.

From Lolking: "Percentages are based on weekly data sets, all regions and leagues."
Invoker is super low on the dota list because scrubs can't press buttons. However, we all know he's extremely strong in high level play.

I know riot cares about low elo, but TL sure doesn't, and shouldn't.

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire to.

Invoker's not even that good in high level play anymore after his most recent nerfs lol. Good situationally, but have to pick him into good matchups, otherwise he gets crushed.


Ah, then I'm outdated with Dota2. My point still stands from my edited post, so I'll put it here:

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire towards- without diminishing higher level options.

While I agree with you that balance should be aimed at higher level play, it's relatively rare that Riot actively balances for exclusively low level play. The last bout of nerfs that pre-rework Xin got is the only example I can think of where something gets nerfed that really isn't quite strong in high level play.

Lee is one of the most contested champs in OGN right now, Amumu's ult is the definition of "press R win teamfight" and is also the only "Snare" that also blocks autoattacking but not spellcasting, but its much bigger than pretty much all other AOE instant/nearinstant CCs. (I'm not counting things like Nami or Zyra ultis which are very avoidable after the ulti cast goes out)
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
January 04 2013 21:10 GMT
#5663
On January 05 2013 06:03 nojitosunrise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2013 05:53 Phunkapotamus wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:52 TheYango wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:51 Phunkapotamus wrote:
These lists are bullshit though.

From Lolking: "Percentages are based on weekly data sets, all regions and leagues."
Invoker is super low on the dota list because scrubs can't press buttons. However, we all know he's extremely strong in high level play.

I know riot cares about low elo, but TL sure doesn't, and shouldn't.

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire to.

Invoker's not even that good in high level play anymore after his most recent nerfs lol. Good situationally, but have to pick him into good matchups, otherwise he gets crushed.


Ah, then I'm outdated with Dota2. My point still stands from my edited post, so I'll put it here:

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire towards- without diminishing higher level options.


That mindset doesn't work. If you alienate your casual playerbase, your game will die. .


dont agree, starcraft took this approach and it lasted FOREVER. Computer games tend to be played by pretty hardcore people that want to play hard games, alienating your casual playerbase is hard when they will be playing people just as bad as them.
I come in for the scraps
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-04 21:12:56
January 04 2013 21:12 GMT
#5664
On January 05 2013 06:10 VayneAuthority wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2013 06:03 nojitosunrise wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:53 Phunkapotamus wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:52 TheYango wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:51 Phunkapotamus wrote:
These lists are bullshit though.

From Lolking: "Percentages are based on weekly data sets, all regions and leagues."
Invoker is super low on the dota list because scrubs can't press buttons. However, we all know he's extremely strong in high level play.

I know riot cares about low elo, but TL sure doesn't, and shouldn't.

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire to.

Invoker's not even that good in high level play anymore after his most recent nerfs lol. Good situationally, but have to pick him into good matchups, otherwise he gets crushed.


Ah, then I'm outdated with Dota2. My point still stands from my edited post, so I'll put it here:

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire towards- without diminishing higher level options.


That mindset doesn't work. If you alienate your casual playerbase, your game will die. .


dont agree, starcraft took this approach and it lasted FOREVER. Computer games tend to be played by pretty hardcore people that want to play hard games, alienating your casual playerbase is hard when they will be playing people just as bad as them.

LoL is way more casual than Starcraft...

Edit: And by that I mean way more casual fans to alienate.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
nojitosunrise
Profile Joined August 2011
United States6188 Posts
January 04 2013 21:12 GMT
#5665
On January 05 2013 06:10 VayneAuthority wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2013 06:03 nojitosunrise wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:53 Phunkapotamus wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:52 TheYango wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:51 Phunkapotamus wrote:
These lists are bullshit though.

From Lolking: "Percentages are based on weekly data sets, all regions and leagues."
Invoker is super low on the dota list because scrubs can't press buttons. However, we all know he's extremely strong in high level play.

I know riot cares about low elo, but TL sure doesn't, and shouldn't.

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire to.

Invoker's not even that good in high level play anymore after his most recent nerfs lol. Good situationally, but have to pick him into good matchups, otherwise he gets crushed.


Ah, then I'm outdated with Dota2. My point still stands from my edited post, so I'll put it here:

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire towards- without diminishing higher level options.


That mindset doesn't work. If you alienate your casual playerbase, your game will die. .


dont agree, starcraft took this approach and it lasted FOREVER. Computer games tend to be played by pretty hardcore people that want to play hard games, alienating your casual playerbase is hard when they will be playing people just as bad as them.


Which starcraft?
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-04 21:16:12
January 04 2013 21:13 GMT
#5666
On January 05 2013 06:10 VayneAuthority wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2013 06:03 nojitosunrise wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:53 Phunkapotamus wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:52 TheYango wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:51 Phunkapotamus wrote:
These lists are bullshit though.

From Lolking: "Percentages are based on weekly data sets, all regions and leagues."
Invoker is super low on the dota list because scrubs can't press buttons. However, we all know he's extremely strong in high level play.

I know riot cares about low elo, but TL sure doesn't, and shouldn't.

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire to.

Invoker's not even that good in high level play anymore after his most recent nerfs lol. Good situationally, but have to pick him into good matchups, otherwise he gets crushed.


Ah, then I'm outdated with Dota2. My point still stands from my edited post, so I'll put it here:

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire towards- without diminishing higher level options.


That mindset doesn't work. If you alienate your casual playerbase, your game will die. .


dont agree, starcraft took this approach and it lasted FOREVER. Computer games tend to be played by pretty hardcore people that want to play hard games, alienating your casual playerbase is hard when they will be playing people just as bad as them.

Starcraft never intentionally alienated its casual fans. There was no clear distinction back in 1998.

On January 05 2013 06:05 sylverfyre wrote:
Lee is one of the most contested champs in OGN right now, Amumu's ult is the definition of "press R win teamfight" and is also the only "Snare" that also blocks autoattacking but not spellcasting, but its much bigger than pretty much all other AOE instant/nearinstant CCs. (I'm not counting things like Nami or Zyra ultis which are very avoidable after the ulti cast goes out)

It's absolutely laughable to think that play right now is indicative of the state of balance for this patch at ANY level.

Even at the top level, one month is not long enough for the dust to settle on what's OP. Especially when the patch is as thoroughly game-changing as this one.
Moderator
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
January 04 2013 21:15 GMT
#5667
On January 05 2013 06:10 VayneAuthority wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2013 06:03 nojitosunrise wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:53 Phunkapotamus wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:52 TheYango wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:51 Phunkapotamus wrote:
These lists are bullshit though.

From Lolking: "Percentages are based on weekly data sets, all regions and leagues."
Invoker is super low on the dota list because scrubs can't press buttons. However, we all know he's extremely strong in high level play.

I know riot cares about low elo, but TL sure doesn't, and shouldn't.

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire to.

Invoker's not even that good in high level play anymore after his most recent nerfs lol. Good situationally, but have to pick him into good matchups, otherwise he gets crushed.


Ah, then I'm outdated with Dota2. My point still stands from my edited post, so I'll put it here:

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire towards- without diminishing higher level options.


That mindset doesn't work. If you alienate your casual playerbase, your game will die. .


dont agree, starcraft took this approach and it lasted FOREVER. Computer games tend to be played by pretty hardcore people that want to play hard games, alienating your casual playerbase is hard when they will be playing people just as bad as them.


There was no competitive Starcraft when they did balance patches.......
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-04 21:22:52
January 04 2013 21:16 GMT
#5668
To be honest, no BW didn't subsist entirely because of its hardcore players. BW subsisted entirely on its hardcore population as far as competitive 1v1 was concerned, sure, but casual players were satiated by a strong custom map scene. Also the SC/BW marketing model didn't actively desire or care if players stopped playing after purchasing the game.

Also, as far as balancing the pro scene, Kespa balanced the pro scene with mapmaking.

On January 05 2013 06:13 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2013 06:10 VayneAuthority wrote:
On January 05 2013 06:03 nojitosunrise wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:53 Phunkapotamus wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:52 TheYango wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:51 Phunkapotamus wrote:
These lists are bullshit though.

From Lolking: "Percentages are based on weekly data sets, all regions and leagues."
Invoker is super low on the dota list because scrubs can't press buttons. However, we all know he's extremely strong in high level play.

I know riot cares about low elo, but TL sure doesn't, and shouldn't.

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire to.

Invoker's not even that good in high level play anymore after his most recent nerfs lol. Good situationally, but have to pick him into good matchups, otherwise he gets crushed.


Ah, then I'm outdated with Dota2. My point still stands from my edited post, so I'll put it here:

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire towards- without diminishing higher level options.


That mindset doesn't work. If you alienate your casual playerbase, your game will die. .


dont agree, starcraft took this approach and it lasted FOREVER. Computer games tend to be played by pretty hardcore people that want to play hard games, alienating your casual playerbase is hard when they will be playing people just as bad as them.

Starcraft never intentionally alienated its casual fans. There was no clear distinction back in 1998.

Show nested quote +
On January 05 2013 06:05 sylverfyre wrote:
Lee is one of the most contested champs in OGN right now, Amumu's ult is the definition of "press R win teamfight" and is also the only "Snare" that also blocks autoattacking but not spellcasting, but its much bigger than pretty much all other AOE instant/nearinstant CCs. (I'm not counting things like Nami or Zyra ultis which are very avoidable after the ulti cast goes out)

It's absolutely laughable to think that play right now is indicative of the state of balance for this patch at ANY level.

Even at the top level, one month is not long enough for the dust to settle on what's OP. Especially when the patch is as thoroughly game-changing as this one.


I don't really disagree Yango - I don't like how little Riot is willing to "let the dust settle" right after a change as gargantuan as the S3 changes. Fix the massively broken shit like Black Cleaver, but don't go fucking around with Talon, Lee, etc etc until things have evened out a bit. It's still preseason even!
Chrispy
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada5878 Posts
January 04 2013 21:21 GMT
#5669
On January 05 2013 02:56 VayneAuthority wrote:
if you want to abuse op stuff that doesn't get nerfed you have to do research yourself and find a champ under the radar thats hard to play. A good example right now is hecarim, blatanly really strong right now but barely anyone plays him and he's only been getting buffed recently.

sure it is hard to use lee sin to his full potential, but it is not hard to do well with him, seen by his huge popularity and his amazing kda across the boards.

same with amumu, super easy to play and highest winrate zz. these are the kind of champs that get nerfed.


I'm starting a project of doing some videos of what I feel is super OP and should be abused in Solo Q while you can, with little tips for better play. Unfortunately I'm a little late but I'm starting with Khazix. Next will probably be AP Yi.
Retvrn to Forvms
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-04 21:22:55
January 04 2013 21:21 GMT
#5670
On January 05 2013 06:15 Diamond wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2013 06:10 VayneAuthority wrote:
On January 05 2013 06:03 nojitosunrise wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:53 Phunkapotamus wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:52 TheYango wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:51 Phunkapotamus wrote:
These lists are bullshit though.

From Lolking: "Percentages are based on weekly data sets, all regions and leagues."
Invoker is super low on the dota list because scrubs can't press buttons. However, we all know he's extremely strong in high level play.

I know riot cares about low elo, but TL sure doesn't, and shouldn't.

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire to.

Invoker's not even that good in high level play anymore after his most recent nerfs lol. Good situationally, but have to pick him into good matchups, otherwise he gets crushed.


Ah, then I'm outdated with Dota2. My point still stands from my edited post, so I'll put it here:

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire towards- without diminishing higher level options.


That mindset doesn't work. If you alienate your casual playerbase, your game will die. .


dont agree, starcraft took this approach and it lasted FOREVER. Computer games tend to be played by pretty hardcore people that want to play hard games, alienating your casual playerbase is hard when they will be playing people just as bad as them.


There was no competitive Starcraft when they did balance patches.......


there wasnt any competitive LoL until recently. Didn't stop them from making balance changes before that they only took advice from the best players. Same with starcraft, they made a game as balanced as they could to foster a competitive game. I hope that LoL goes in the same direction (which they have for the most part) and caters specifically to making the game as balanced as possible for the best players.

also sup chrispy how you been
I come in for the scraps
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
January 04 2013 21:21 GMT
#5671
As a concept, balancing for casual/hardcore didn't even become a relevant concept until well after BW stopped getting balanced. The concept of "casual gaming" didn't even exist yet. There were just gamers, and there was just balance.
Moderator
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
January 04 2013 21:22 GMT
#5672
On January 05 2013 05:51 Phunkapotamus wrote:
These lists are bullshit though.


that's kind of the point of why i put it there
beefhamburger
Profile Joined December 2007
United States3962 Posts
January 04 2013 21:25 GMT
#5673
IMO, an exception to the rule (SCBW) doesn't make it's path the gold standard rule to follow, especially if they were introduced in different generations. If your game is too unbalanced at the lowest levels, those people will never care enough or get to the level of wanting to admire exceptional play. They will most likely quit after a short period of time generally, and with that your general player base will eventually extinguish. The worse the balance/game, the faster that rate of decline, generally. Exceptions will always happen, but it doesn't mean that it should be the norm.
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
January 04 2013 21:26 GMT
#5674
On January 05 2013 06:21 VayneAuthority wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2013 06:15 Diamond wrote:
On January 05 2013 06:10 VayneAuthority wrote:
On January 05 2013 06:03 nojitosunrise wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:53 Phunkapotamus wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:52 TheYango wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:51 Phunkapotamus wrote:
These lists are bullshit though.

From Lolking: "Percentages are based on weekly data sets, all regions and leagues."
Invoker is super low on the dota list because scrubs can't press buttons. However, we all know he's extremely strong in high level play.

I know riot cares about low elo, but TL sure doesn't, and shouldn't.

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire to.

Invoker's not even that good in high level play anymore after his most recent nerfs lol. Good situationally, but have to pick him into good matchups, otherwise he gets crushed.


Ah, then I'm outdated with Dota2. My point still stands from my edited post, so I'll put it here:

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire towards- without diminishing higher level options.


That mindset doesn't work. If you alienate your casual playerbase, your game will die. .


dont agree, starcraft took this approach and it lasted FOREVER. Computer games tend to be played by pretty hardcore people that want to play hard games, alienating your casual playerbase is hard when they will be playing people just as bad as them.


There was no competitive Starcraft when they did balance patches.......


there wasnt any competitive LoL until recently. Didn't stop them from making balance changes before that they only took advice from the best players. Same with starcraft, they made a game as balanced as they could to foster a competitive game. I hope that LoL goes in the same direction (which they have for the most part) and caters specifically to making the game as balanced as possible for the best players.

also sup chrispy how you been


I don't follow your logic at all. You seem to be arguing your own point?
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
Phunkapotamus
Profile Joined April 2010
United States496 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-04 21:34:31
January 04 2013 21:26 GMT
#5675
Balance for low skill tiers doesn't matter so much as long as the difficulty curve is not too steep. You want a high skill ceiling with an easy, gradual skill curve. Idealistically, capitalism functions this way and it is one of the most competitive economic models.

Easy to learn, hard to master, with perks at the top end to give incentive enough to climb the ladder.
"Do a barrel roll"
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
January 04 2013 21:27 GMT
#5676
On January 05 2013 06:26 Diamond wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2013 06:21 VayneAuthority wrote:
On January 05 2013 06:15 Diamond wrote:
On January 05 2013 06:10 VayneAuthority wrote:
On January 05 2013 06:03 nojitosunrise wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:53 Phunkapotamus wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:52 TheYango wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:51 Phunkapotamus wrote:
These lists are bullshit though.

From Lolking: "Percentages are based on weekly data sets, all regions and leagues."
Invoker is super low on the dota list because scrubs can't press buttons. However, we all know he's extremely strong in high level play.

I know riot cares about low elo, but TL sure doesn't, and shouldn't.

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire to.

Invoker's not even that good in high level play anymore after his most recent nerfs lol. Good situationally, but have to pick him into good matchups, otherwise he gets crushed.


Ah, then I'm outdated with Dota2. My point still stands from my edited post, so I'll put it here:

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire towards- without diminishing higher level options.


That mindset doesn't work. If you alienate your casual playerbase, your game will die. .


dont agree, starcraft took this approach and it lasted FOREVER. Computer games tend to be played by pretty hardcore people that want to play hard games, alienating your casual playerbase is hard when they will be playing people just as bad as them.


There was no competitive Starcraft when they did balance patches.......


there wasnt any competitive LoL until recently. Didn't stop them from making balance changes before that they only took advice from the best players. Same with starcraft, they made a game as balanced as they could to foster a competitive game. I hope that LoL goes in the same direction (which they have for the most part) and caters specifically to making the game as balanced as possible for the best players.

also sup chrispy how you been


I don't follow your logic at all. You seem to be arguing your own point?


Don't really have a point, I guess my bottom line is that if we leave this up to the casuals, we will have darius nerfed, an already mediocre/middle of the line champion and other things of the sort. Obviously not that great for the game.
I come in for the scraps
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
January 04 2013 21:34 GMT
#5677
On January 05 2013 06:21 Chrispy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2013 02:56 VayneAuthority wrote:
if you want to abuse op stuff that doesn't get nerfed you have to do research yourself and find a champ under the radar thats hard to play. A good example right now is hecarim, blatanly really strong right now but barely anyone plays him and he's only been getting buffed recently.

sure it is hard to use lee sin to his full potential, but it is not hard to do well with him, seen by his huge popularity and his amazing kda across the boards.

same with amumu, super easy to play and highest winrate zz. these are the kind of champs that get nerfed.


I'm starting a project of doing some videos of what I feel is super OP and should be abused in Solo Q while you can, with little tips for better play. Unfortunately I'm a little late but I'm starting with Khazix. Next will probably be AP Yi.


LOL welcome to 3 patches ago
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
January 04 2013 21:38 GMT
#5678
from mass gaming solo queue recently, i feel like khazix solo, eve jungle, and to a lesser extent, panth, and to an even lesser extent, ezreal, are the blatant OPs right now in solo queue.
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-04 21:40:53
January 04 2013 21:39 GMT
#5679
On January 05 2013 06:27 VayneAuthority wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2013 06:26 Diamond wrote:
On January 05 2013 06:21 VayneAuthority wrote:
On January 05 2013 06:15 Diamond wrote:
On January 05 2013 06:10 VayneAuthority wrote:
On January 05 2013 06:03 nojitosunrise wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:53 Phunkapotamus wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:52 TheYango wrote:
On January 05 2013 05:51 Phunkapotamus wrote:
These lists are bullshit though.

From Lolking: "Percentages are based on weekly data sets, all regions and leagues."
Invoker is super low on the dota list because scrubs can't press buttons. However, we all know he's extremely strong in high level play.

I know riot cares about low elo, but TL sure doesn't, and shouldn't.

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire to.

Invoker's not even that good in high level play anymore after his most recent nerfs lol. Good situationally, but have to pick him into good matchups, otherwise he gets crushed.


Ah, then I'm outdated with Dota2. My point still stands from my edited post, so I'll put it here:

I do not believe balancing for low denominations is a wise strategy. You should balance for (relatively) higher level play. This gives low levels something to admire and aspire towards- without diminishing higher level options.


That mindset doesn't work. If you alienate your casual playerbase, your game will die. .


dont agree, starcraft took this approach and it lasted FOREVER. Computer games tend to be played by pretty hardcore people that want to play hard games, alienating your casual playerbase is hard when they will be playing people just as bad as them.


There was no competitive Starcraft when they did balance patches.......


there wasnt any competitive LoL until recently. Didn't stop them from making balance changes before that they only took advice from the best players. Same with starcraft, they made a game as balanced as they could to foster a competitive game. I hope that LoL goes in the same direction (which they have for the most part) and caters specifically to making the game as balanced as possible for the best players.

also sup chrispy how you been


I don't follow your logic at all. You seem to be arguing your own point?


Don't really have a point, I guess my bottom line is that if we leave this up to the casuals, we will have darius nerfed, an already mediocre/middle of the line champion and other things of the sort. Obviously not that great for the game.


It's pretty obvious they aren't ONLY going for casuals just off the recent champions alone. Kha'Zix, Jayce, Orianna, Elise, Zed, and others are all INCREDIBLY deep champions that a casual player can play with, but a pro player will make look just absurd.

Can a casual track 2 shadows plus Zed in a teamfight? Hell no. Can a high level player? Yes.

The problem with Lee Sin I think is he just got too much stuff in top lane. I started recently making him my main go to for top lane, and I am AWFUL with him. Yet I still have yet to lose my lane, despite being outplayed almost every game. He wins trades vs anyone, does not have mana, has insane sustain built in his kit, and is likely the most mobile champ in the game.

Even aside for low level, almost every pro stream/tournament I watch these days Lee Sin is either perm banned, or first pick like every time. I think he's one of the most picked/banned at OGN also (thought I saw that on Reddit somewhere). He is good on ALL levels even if you miss 80% of your Q's.

Seems like you are letting emotion get in your way here and not going off facts. Facts are that he has one of the most versatile kits while having no true weakness. He has sustain, mobility, free armor (atm), a slow, the kick, an execute, and more. If every champ was as badass as Lee Sin would that be cool? Sure. But it will take time, although it very much seems to the the direction Riot is going these days, away from the newbie champs and into the more diverse and deep champs. And maybe when the day comes that the only champs being played are the newer/deeper champs then Lee can get put back in line, but atm he's sooooooo far ahead of other champs that I see no problems with small nerfs like this. Hell he could have got the boot like Diana where they nerf EVERYTHING (that I don't agree with), they just tweaked some stuff that will force you to play smarter.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
January 04 2013 21:46 GMT
#5680
On January 05 2013 06:38 zulu_nation8 wrote:
from mass gaming solo queue recently, i feel like khazix solo, eve jungle, and to a lesser extent, panth, and to an even lesser extent, ezreal, are the blatant OPs right now in solo queue.

How do you jungle eve? Like the way Dan does?
God Bless
Prev 1 282 283 284 285 286 451 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL
19:00
RO16 Group A
eOnzErG vs OyAjiLIVE!
Doodle vs cavapoo
ZZZero.O271
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft558
Ketroc 97
StarCraft: Brood War
ZZZero.O 271
Hyuk 231
ggaemo 31
Dota 2
monkeys_forever579
League of Legends
Doublelift3638
JimRising 409
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King93
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor192
Other Games
tarik_tv11904
gofns11846
summit1g4937
FrodaN1045
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1510
BasetradeTV224
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream60
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 74
• musti20045 40
• davetesta17
• Response 1
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 25
• RayReign 7
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie1098
• Shiphtur200
• tFFMrPink 13
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
58m
RSL Revival
10h 58m
herO vs TriGGeR
NightMare vs Solar
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
14h 58m
BSL
19h 58m
IPSL
19h 58m
eOnzErG vs TBD
G5 vs Nesh
Patches Events
1d
Replay Cast
1d 9h
Wardi Open
1d 10h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 10h
Jaedong vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 16h
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Snow vs Flash
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
GSL
3 days
Classic vs Cure
Maru vs Rogue
GSL
4 days
SHIN vs Zoun
ByuN vs herO
OSC
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Escore
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
SHIN vs Bunny
ByuN vs Shameless
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W5
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.