EPTIt also ignores that Riot has clearly stated that they do not want "Ill trade myself for the AD Carry who I can kill in 1 combo" to be a thing.
[Patch 1.0.0.152: Preseason 3] General Discussion - Page 190
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
It also ignores that Riot has clearly stated that they do not want "Ill trade myself for the AD Carry who I can kill in 1 combo" to be a thing. | ||
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qanik
Denmark1899 Posts
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
http://www.inven.co.kr/board/powerbbs.php?come_idx=2653&l=854135 clg scrimming ex quantic is kinda funny because they will play them in the mlg prizefight in 2 hours right? | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On December 13 2012 08:12 101toss wrote: Haunting guise. 200hp? Check 15mpen? Check 25ap? Not enough here, but toss on a blasting wand (only 860g) and you've got around the same ap. That means you get 600g to spend on another item that does more damage (plus that bwand actually builds into core items for all casters). People confuse teemo shrooms retarded base damage with liandry's damage and it's making me sad  You are completely ignoring me. Here's some math for you. I'm playing Teemo. I got a Deathcap and a Void Staff. I've also got boots and a sightstone and a haunting guise. I'm having a pretty good day. Lets say I'm a fairly standard AP build and I'm level 18. I've got 333.502 AP with all this stuff. Neat. My mushrooms are doing 866.8016 damage. Also neat. I've got room in my inventory for one more major item. I want something that is going to give me the most damage possible on my mushrooms for the least gold possible. What do I get? I could get a Deathfire Grasp for 3000 gold. That gives 130 AP with deathcap/masteries, which would be another 104 damage on my mushrooms. I could get a Zhonyas Hourglass for 3100 gold. That gives 130 AP with deathcap/masteries, which would be another 104 damage on my mushrooms. Or I could get a Liandry's Lament for 1415 gold. That only gives 58.5 AP with deathcap/masteries, which would be another 46.8 damage on my mushrooms. But it has that passive and slows, so would do 5% current HP damage to the target over 1.5 seconds. How much current HP would the target have to have for 5% of it to be the 45.5 necessary to make that proc do as much damage as a Deathfire Grasp? Only 910 HP. At level 18 how many champions will have more than 910 HP after being hit by the mushroom? Damn near everybody. And it only cost 1415 gold instead of 3000! And I still have an item slot left! In fact, instead of paying 3000 gold for a Deathfire Grasp I could get Liandry's Lament and a Needlessly Large Rod. Then I'm certainly doing more damage than I would be if I'd gotten that Deathfire Grasp! Edit: Oh but wait, Liandry's and Teemo mushrooms don't work well together! Each second you take damage and that reapplies the effect and causes Liandry's to miss a tick of damage! So the last tick of shroom damage will make Liandry's do 5% current health damage, and the first few ticks will make Liandry's do... More than nothing. So instead of taking 5% HP damage from Liandry's, you're taking some amount MORE than 5%. Totally crappy with mushrooms. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On December 13 2012 08:12 101toss wrote: Haunting guise. 200hp? Check 15mpen? Check 25ap? Not enough here, but toss on a blasting wand (only 860g) and you've got around the same ap. That means you get 600g to spend on another item that does more damage (plus that bwand actually builds into core items for all casters). People confuse teemo shrooms retarded base damage with liandry's damage and it's making me sad the mpen is what makes the path so strong on teemo. 1ap provides only a 0.4% increase in damage on a lvl 1 shroom and it does increase a lvl 3 shroom by 0.13%. 1 mpen does increase your shrooms by almost 1% damage at all levels. so it scales up harder with your level. mpen stats allways look so tiny but are actually freaking huge if you compare them to ap, especially if your champ has high base damage values. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On December 13 2012 08:12 101toss wrote: Haunting guise. 200hp? Check 15mpen? Check 25ap? Not enough here, but toss on a blasting wand (only 860g) and you've got around the same ap. That means you get 600g to spend on another item that does more damage (plus that bwand actually builds into core items for all casters). People confuse teemo shrooms retarded base damage with liandry's damage and it's making me sad Well the thing is, teemo shrooms slow for retarded amounts of time, and proc liandry's for the whole time. Liandry's deals 3.333% of a person's current health per second on a CC'd target, which adds up to be something like 15% of current health in magic over the course of a teemo shroom without tenacity. Not negligible by any means. Base damage being retarded high and the mpen doesn't help either though. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On December 13 2012 08:32 Ketara wrote: You are completely ignoring me. Here's some math for you. I'm playing Teemo. I got a Deathcap and a Void Staff. I've also got boots and a sightstone and a haunting guise. I'm having a pretty good day. Lets say I'm a fairly standard AP build and I'm level 18. I've got 333.502 AP with all this stuff. Neat. My mushrooms are doing 866.8016 damage. Also neat. I've got room in my inventory for one more major item. I want something that is going to give me the most damage possible on my mushrooms for the least gold possible. What do I get? I could get a Deathfire Grasp for 3000 gold. That gives 130 AP with deathcap/masteries, which would be another 104 damage on my mushrooms. I could get a Zhonyas Hourglass for 3100 gold. That gives 130 AP with deathcap/masteries, which would be another 104 damage on my mushrooms. Or I could get a Liandry's Lament for 1415 gold. That only gives 58.5 AP with deathcap/masteries, which would be another 46.8 damage on my mushrooms. But it has that passive and slows, so would do 5% current HP damage to the target over 1.5 seconds. How much current HP would the target have to have for 5% of it to be the 45.5 necessary to make that proc do as much damage as a Deathfire Grasp? Only 910 HP. At level 18 how many champions will have more than 910 HP after being hit by the mushroom? Damn near everybody. And it only cost 1415 gold instead of 3000! And I still have an item slot left! In fact, instead of paying 3000 gold for a Deathfire Grasp I could get Liandry's Lament and a Needlessly Large Rod. Then I'm certainly doing more damage than I would be if I'd gotten that Deathfire Grasp! in that situation I'd rather have the sheen for my eventual lichbane. | ||
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On December 13 2012 08:35 Slusher wrote: in that situation I'd rather have the sheen for my eventual lichbane. Lich Bane wouldn't give you the most damage on your mushrooms possible for the least gold possible. But hey! You could get Liandry's and a Sheen together and still be doing more damage on mushrooms for less gold than if you had gotten any other item. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
your missing what we are saying, Guise is still a really good item, but Liandry's does not warrant an upgrade until 6 items on almost all champions. Lichbane gives you more split push utility which is a really strong tool in Teemo's toolbox. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Furthermore, my point was not that some builds are better than others. That's obvious. My point is that if you are saying Liandry's is a bad item or not cost effective, you are wrong. It's not a good first item in all likelihood because its damage scales better at higher levels, but just because it's not a good first item doesn't mean it's a bad item. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
point proven. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
And nobody thinks Guise sucks. | ||
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qanik
Denmark1899 Posts
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icemanzdoinwork
447 Posts
On December 13 2012 08:12 101toss wrote: Haunting guise. 200hp? Check 15mpen? Check 25ap? Not enough here, but toss on a blasting wand (only 860g) and you've got around the same ap. That means you get 600g to spend on another item that does more damage (plus that bwand actually builds into core items for all casters). People confuse teemo shrooms retarded base damage with liandry's damage and it's making me sad Runes/Masteries AP = 42.71 @ lvl 11 (assuming flat ap blues/quints). Liandry 70+42.71= 112.71+ 5% mastery= 118.34 118.34*.8= 94.67 400+94.67=494.67 Deathcap 120+42.71=162.71 + (mastery/passive 30%(162.71)=48.81)=211.52 211.52*.8= 169.21 400+169.21= 569.21 Doesn't include passive/pen. | ||
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little fancy
Germany2504 Posts
I see several professional AD carry players refraining from buying Zerker (the attack speed ones) Boots lately. Why is that? -5% AS too much of a nerf? Personally, I still like me some Zerkers, especially on ADs who are naturally low on it (Corki comes to mind for example). Can somebody explain to me the secret tech I didn't get yet? | ||
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Sermokala
United States14220 Posts
On December 13 2012 08:53 Slusher wrote: I don't even know what your argument is then, because everyone agrees you might as well upgrade it at some point. And nobody thinks Guise sucks. Why are you speaking for everyone like this. Everyone agrees that landries is beyond op on teemo because of his mushrooms. You're trying to make the argument that sheen is somehow better on split pushing teemo when splitpushing teemo would be making more use out of landries though his mushroom then anyone. You're the one thats been mathematically proven wrong over and over again and yet continually strives thinking that somehow you are still right. If you want to prove your case to people use examples and math. don't just make these baseless asursions that make you look like an idiot. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On December 13 2012 08:32 Ketara wrote: You are completely ignoring me. Here's some math for you. I'm playing Teemo. I got a Deathcap and a Void Staff. I've also got boots and a sightstone and a haunting guise. I'm having a pretty good day. Lets say I'm a fairly standard AP build and I'm level 18. I've got 333.502 AP with all this stuff. Neat. My mushrooms are doing 866.8016 damage. Also neat. I've got room in my inventory for one more major item. I want something that is going to give me the most damage possible on my mushrooms for the least gold possible. What do I get? I could get a Deathfire Grasp for 3000 gold. That gives 130 AP with deathcap/masteries, which would be another 104 damage on my mushrooms. I could get a Zhonyas Hourglass for 3100 gold. That gives 130 AP with deathcap/masteries, which would be another 104 damage on my mushrooms. Or I could get a Liandry's Lament for 1415 gold. That only gives 58.5 AP with deathcap/masteries, which would be another 46.8 damage on my mushrooms. But it has that passive and slows, so would do 5% current HP damage to the target over 1.5 seconds. How much current HP would the target have to have for 5% of it to be the 45.5 necessary to make that proc do as much damage as a Deathfire Grasp? Only 910 HP. At level 18 how many champions will have more than 910 HP after being hit by the mushroom? Damn near everybody. And it only cost 1415 gold instead of 3000! And I still have an item slot left! In fact, instead of paying 3000 gold for a Deathfire Grasp I could get Liandry's Lament and a Needlessly Large Rod. Then I'm certainly doing more damage than I would be if I'd gotten that Deathfire Grasp! Edit: Oh but wait, Liandry's and Teemo mushrooms don't work well together! Each second you take damage and that reapplies the effect and causes Liandry's to miss a tick of damage! So the last tick of shroom damage will make Liandry's do 5% current health damage, and the first few ticks will make Liandry's do... More than nothing. So instead of taking 5% HP damage from Liandry's, you're taking some amount MORE than 5%. Totally crappy with mushrooms. I'm actually curious if Liandry gets ticks off when Teemo's poison is active, and if so, how many ticks on average. I can neither discount nor prove the 13% stated above. I think the argument it doesn't work well with Teemo is half from when someone hits a mushroom and then you autoattack them, because then for a long time Liandry's might not be hurting them at all because it keeps getting refreshed by Teemo's poison. Here's some data on Liandry's - AoE and DoT based spells halve the number of ticks rather than the duration. It may seem like a technicality, but a simple halved duration (re wording of the tooltip) would imply the full 5% over 1.5 seconds; instead, it's halved to 2.5% over 1.5 seconds. http://www.reignofgaming.net/forums/strategy/champions-and-gameplay/29479-item-mechanics-liandrys-torment http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Liandry's_Torment So Teemo will theoretically only get 5% from one Liandry's proc. Also: - The damage is dealt over 6 ticks at 0.5 second intervals, with the initial tick being on contact and hidden by the spell itself. So Liandry's will proc at least one time. But depending on the dot frequency of Teemo's poison, it may not proc again until after Teemo's poison wears off, which would mean it gets half efficiency. I'm tired. Baylife. | ||
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