EPTwell, so much for that.
[Patch 1.0.0.150: Shadow Isles] General Discussion - Page…
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
well, so much for that. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Darius, Yorick, Jayce notably. Well after the nerfs most Jayce seem to max Q so the "mixed damage" thing isn't true anymore and his burst is way weaker. Olaf could be one but since his E is actually easy to outtrade and lacks means to fight from afar (Q kinda weak, no engages like Darius' pull) his case is a lot simplier. Darius' passive also forces me to take MS quints or a single Q hit means I won't be able to run from him, even if he doesn't pull. I should probably experiment but since those lanes are so annoying and unfun to play against it doesn't really give me motivation.  Got smashed by a WW as Olaf the other day, I ate some damage on an early gank and that made me unable to trade with him as I'd end up under 50% and his MS boost makes his Q untradable with (it's got more range than E anyway). I didn't want to back immediatly as I'd miss a lot of cs (the gank made the lane push) and WW would be a level ahead of me through the exp. while he shown he'd be aware of it and abuse his Q being a level ahead too. Ended up dying for his 2 summoners and a back from his dive, but then even stacking MR I wouldn't be able to match his Q sustain. I wouldn't have been as bad without the gank, but I still think I'd have lost the lane. All this time that I thought Olaf beat WW (who even got nerfed since)... never too late to learn. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On November 11 2012 03:36 obesechicken13 wrote: Little tricks like these are what separate the good players from the great players in BW. Leashing isn't that elite but it probably was when it first came out. I completely disagree. Leashing is not some cool micro trick that requires talent to pull off. It's something that you either do or you don't do. What no leashing will do is give the rest of the team more leeway to do sneaky shit at level 1, which actually will help separate good players from great players. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
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Craton
United States17274 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On November 11 2012 03:20 Ketara wrote: I honestly really like that they're getting rid of leashing. I think it will open up a lot more level 1 schenanigans. It seems like the changes in general are going to favor ganky mids. Less early jungle pressure, no leashes, better early game items, wraiths harder to farm, etc. How so? The important objectives of the map aren't changing. In many ways this, and the probability that few junglers will be able to start boots, will curb level 1 activity slightly. The only thing that's changing is that single best mechanic in the game for learning, "Huh, little things I do can have big impacts for my allies." is being removed. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On November 11 2012 03:59 Alaric wrote: Darius' passive also forces me to take MS quints or a single Q hit means I won't be able to run from him, even if he doesn't pull. Darius' passive doesn't slow. Only his W. On November 11 2012 04:01 Ketara wrote: I completely disagree. Leashing is not some cool micro trick that requires talent to pull off. It's something that you either do or you don't do. What no leashing will do is give the rest of the team more leeway to do sneaky shit at level 1, which actually will help separate good players from great players. When I play voli top, I flip the blue backwards when leashing to give it more distance to run. I have to be sure I'm not the closest to blue as it reaches its leash range when I'm a melee trying to add damage to blue or else it aggros to me. There are games where people make bad leashes and cause blue to insta reset. There are people who try to do a "super leash" where they just run back and forth against the wall. People require leashing to be able to do golems without taking too much damage on blue side. Malzahar, elise, heimerdinger, and annie can all use leash mechanics to have their minions tank damage if done right. Leashing adds a lot more to the game than not leashing. It's not that big of a deal as now mids will just stay longer and give a bit more damage. There still may be ways to leash properly. But having less options is worse than having more options. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11716 Posts
On November 11 2012 04:20 obesechicken13 wrote: Darius' passive doesn't slow. Only his W. When I play voli top, I flip the blue backwards when leashing to give it more distance to run. I have to be sure I'm not the closest to blue as it reaches its leash range when I'm a melee trying to add damage to blue or else it aggros to me. There are games where people make bad leashes and cause blue to insta reset. There are people who try to do a "super leash" where they just run back and forth against the wall. People require leashing to be able to do golems without taking too much damage on blue side. Malzahar, elise, heimerdinger, and annie can all use leash mechanics to have their minions tank damage if done right. Leashing adds a lot more to the game than not leashing. It's not that big of a deal as now mids will just stay longer and give a bit more damage. There still may be ways to leash properly. But having less options is worse than having more options. Depending on how they implement "attacks the closest enemy", i can imagine a lot of stuff you can do with coordination if at least one of you is ranged. For example, making golems just walk back and forth all day, never being able to hit them by changing who is closest to them. | ||
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Craton
United States17274 Posts
On November 11 2012 04:09 Seuss wrote: How so? The important objectives of the map aren't changing. In many ways this, and the probability that few junglers will be able to start boots, will curb level 1 activity slightly. The only thing that's changing is that single best mechanic in the game for learning, "Huh, little things I do can have big impacts for my allies." is being removed. I've basically resigned myself to them ruining the jungle for the second time. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On November 11 2012 04:24 Simberto wrote: Depending on how they implement "attacks the closest enemy", i can imagine a lot of stuff you can do with coordination if at least one of you is ranged. For example, making golems just walk back and forth all day, never being able to hit them by changing who is closest to them. Elise will be super-happy. | ||
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Korlin
Canada142 Posts
On November 11 2012 04:20 obesechicken13 wrote: Darius' passive doesn't slow. Only his W. It doesn't slow but it does give him movespeed for each champion bleeding. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On November 11 2012 04:20 obesechicken13 wrote: Darius' passive doesn't slow. Only his W. 5% MS bonus per enemy champion bleeding. When Darius suddenly gains +18 MS from just boots1 because his Q hit you, he can either chase you (and apply W on top of it if he wants) or run from you if you don't have a slow to stop him. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On November 11 2012 04:33 Korlin wrote: It doesn't slow but it does give him movespeed for each champion bleeding. But his base movement of 315 is merely average. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On November 11 2012 04:20 obesechicken13 wrote: Darius' passive doesn't slow. Only his W. When I play voli top, I flip the blue backwards when leashing to give it more distance to run. I have to be sure I'm not the closest to blue as it reaches its leash range when I'm a melee trying to add damage to blue or else it aggros to me. There are games where people make bad leashes and cause blue to insta reset. There are people who try to do a "super leash" where they just run back and forth against the wall. People require leashing to be able to do golems without taking too much damage on blue side. Malzahar, elise, heimerdinger, and annie can all use leash mechanics to have their minions tank damage if done right. Leashing adds a lot more to the game than not leashing. It's not that big of a deal as now mids will just stay longer and give a bit more damage. There still may be ways to leash properly. But having less options is worse than having more options. Darius passive does give him MS if you're bleeding though. On November 11 2012 04:24 Craton wrote: I've basically resigned myself to them ruining the jungle for the second time. It's always "ruined" on this board. Can't just enjoy new things, you cranky old man? | ||
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Gahlo
United States35165 Posts
On November 11 2012 04:35 Sufficiency wrote: But his base movement of 315 is merely average. 315 + boots + 5% = 367.5 | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Don't forget that many Darius players run MS quints. | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
On November 11 2012 04:42 Requizen wrote: Don't forget that many Darius players run MS quints. +3% initiator mastery if over 70% hp | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On November 11 2012 04:42 Requizen wrote: Don't forget that many Darius players run MS quints. all darius players he gets so much free damage that there's no need to run offensive quints i've never seen a darius come to lane with < 370 MS even without any bleeding champs | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On November 11 2012 02:28 Ketara wrote: I dunno that it'd be a nerf to Malz/WW, it'd be a nerf to QSS. Dont understand how someone could even say this is nerfing WW/Malz, befoire you wouldnt get shit from your ult, now you'll atleast get some damage | ||
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Gahlo
United States35165 Posts
On November 11 2012 05:16 gtrsrs wrote: all darius players he gets so much free damage that there's no need to run offensive quints i've never seen a darius come to lane with < 370 MS even without any bleeding champs I've heard of some running armor or MR. | ||
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