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51497 Posts
On October 20 2012 04:43 Chill wrote:
When I went to watch the semifinals of the OGN league in May, I showed up an hour early and there was a 500-person line. It was crazy.
Yeah, Moletrap tells me that even group stage games fill up the studio.
In comparison, the only time I've witnessed huge crowds/queues for Starcraft was when I went for the OSL semi-final between Flash and Fantasy. People were lining up 3+ hours before the games were scheduled to start. I think the line went all the way to the elevator on the other side of the building. It was the first (and most likely last time) Starcraft will garner a crowd large enough to remove all the seating from the studio and make everyone sit on the floor. That and the last BW OSL final, but that is self-explanatory (people went to Jamsil at 8am for tickets, and this was during the Korean summer).
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
I went to the LoL finals i arrived at 8:30 and there were like 3-4k people already there.
At 10 the tickets were given out. If you want to watch in the studio you better arrive 2h hours early if you want to have a good place.
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On October 20 2012 08:30 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 08:25 Acer1791 wrote:On October 20 2012 08:07 fuzzy_panda wrote:On October 20 2012 07:23 adriftt wrote:
Its funny because myself + all my friends from DOTA/HoN were the same. Talked about how casual LoL was because you couldn't deny creeps ECT. Then we started playing and haven't touched DOTA since. There's a very big difference between something being easy, and something being simple. LoL is incredibly complex at the higher levels and that's why there can be a professional scene. No one would want to watch something that is easy and that they can do themselves. However they WILL watch something that is simple to understand and interpret coz u get the hang of the game really fast, but there is a big difference between well-executed, expert plays compared to average pubs. To me it's like football. simple, but not easy to master. well i dont know about that. i really like lol, but i dont see that lol is incredibly complex at any lvl. there are a few things you have to do better at high lvl of play like time the cooldowns (summoners and ultis) and understand which fight you can actually win, but in relation to both of the starcraft games and dota its kinda easy. the most fun (for me atleast) to watch in the lol proscene is that i have the feeling i know the players better than in sc2 (like tsm, clg na/eu and moscow5). till now there arent koreans/asians stomping EVERYONE. you could argue the season2 finals told a different story, but i think the EU teams were pretty descent and if the NA teams would take lol more seriously, the skillgap would close pretty fast. sry for my bad english, its pretty late here^^ Korea's only formally had LoL for less than a year. Give it another 6 months, the gap is going to be enormous.
i called TPA winning the championship but i also predict that korea will become dominating season 3 as they filter out worse players for newer talent to the scene (or perhaps some from the BW, one can hope) and polish their play further. given the youth of many players, they only have upwards to go atm
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On October 20 2012 05:08 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 05:59 robertdinh wrote:
Riot could fix these kinda issues if they truly cared about the state of their game as an e-sport... but it serves them better to release their new champs as OP as possible so people buy them up like hot cakes. I disagree with pretty much your entire post, but I'm going to just address this point because it's something I see parroted a lot everywhere. Releasing new champs on the OP side of things makes a lot of sense not only from the business standpoint, but from a development/balance standpoint, as well. Obviously, if a champion is OP on release, a lot of people will want to insta-buy, some with RP, to take advantage of said champ. However, on the other hand, releasing a champ to be on the OP side of things is extremely helpful for development of the champion. If Riot releases a champion that's utter trash or simply "average" then no one will play said champ. It then becomes extremely hard to gather sufficient data about that champion through games since no one wants to play that champion. Balancing that champion becomes really difficult too since it's hard to gauge how much the balance changes affected the champion. Riot has had a history of stealth buffing champions to the point where these champions explode and become FOTM OP. These champions were able to be stealth buffed to OP status since no one ever plays them due to a conception that they're weak since they were such shit on release. Examples: Lee Sin and Cassiopeia. Both were pretty crappy on release, but then Riot handed them buffs after buffs and they suddenly became OP FOTM. You then also have shit like Karma and Sejuani. These champions have potentially strong kits, but the numbers are just total trash. Thus no one plays them and Riot has next to no data/incentive to balance them. It's not only LoL that does this. Icefrog does this in DotA, as well. Even with Icefrog's much much slower rate of patching, whenever DotA releases new heroes, those heroes tend to be soooooooooooo OP. They get toned down bit by bit. Both Valve/Icefrog and Riot avoid screwing the competitive scene despite releasing OP heroes/champs by simply disabling them for competitive play until they're considered more "balanced" and tested.
Dota already does this, as new heroes sit in non -cm pool for 3-9 months or so and recieve tweaks.
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On October 20 2012 07:23 adriftt wrote:
Its funny because myself + all my friends from DOTA/HoN were the same. Talked about how casual LoL was because you couldn't deny creeps ECT. Then we started playing and haven't touched DOTA since.
I have the opposite experience as I play both but constantly have people asking me to teach them dota 2 since I also have a lol background.
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On October 18 2012 04:50 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 04:47 Djin)ftw( wrote:
Come now, that a couple of Ex-Slayers players move to LoL is just the beginning. There is no way that the Kespa-teams wont jump on the bandwagon when LoL is that popular. I am sure that a lot of players already play it besides SC2. As soon as KHAN, SKt1, KTF etc. create LoL teams, a lot of these SC2 players will join. Sc2 is just not popular in South Korea and I highly doubt that HotS will change that.
It will be interesting to see what becomes of Blizzard though. After the disappointing SC2 and the clusterfuck that is D3 I'm curious as to what will happen in the future. Incidentally, KT already does have a LoL team, and CJ's had one for a little while now.
KT got two teams, and CJ still has their team, one of KT teams is ex-NaJi Shield.
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
On October 21 2012 11:04 elementz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 04:50 TheYango wrote:On October 18 2012 04:47 Djin)ftw( wrote:
Come now, that a couple of Ex-Slayers players move to LoL is just the beginning. There is no way that the Kespa-teams wont jump on the bandwagon when LoL is that popular. I am sure that a lot of players already play it besides SC2. As soon as KHAN, SKt1, KTF etc. create LoL teams, a lot of these SC2 players will join. Sc2 is just not popular in South Korea and I highly doubt that HotS will change that.
It will be interesting to see what becomes of Blizzard though. After the disappointing SC2 and the clusterfuck that is D3 I'm curious as to what will happen in the future. Incidentally, KT already does have a LoL team, and CJ's had one for a little while now. KT got two teams, and CJ still has their team, one of KT teams is ex-NaJi Shield.
only one player is from najin shield. I think you mean Startale
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On October 21 2012 11:52 Chexx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 11:04 elementz wrote:On October 18 2012 04:50 TheYango wrote:On October 18 2012 04:47 Djin)ftw( wrote:
Come now, that a couple of Ex-Slayers players move to LoL is just the beginning. There is no way that the Kespa-teams wont jump on the bandwagon when LoL is that popular. I am sure that a lot of players already play it besides SC2. As soon as KHAN, SKt1, KTF etc. create LoL teams, a lot of these SC2 players will join. Sc2 is just not popular in South Korea and I highly doubt that HotS will change that.
It will be interesting to see what becomes of Blizzard though. After the disappointing SC2 and the clusterfuck that is D3 I'm curious as to what will happen in the future. Incidentally, KT already does have a LoL team, and CJ's had one for a little while now. KT got two teams, and CJ still has their team, one of KT teams is ex-NaJi Shield. only one player is from najin shield. I think you mean Startale
whoops, true why I remember NaJin shield.
P.S. Did Startale get new teams? after the one with Loco left?
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
nope Startale does not have anymore LoL teams
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On October 21 2012 17:14 elementz wrote:
P.S. Did Startale get new teams? after the one with Loco left? Startale some weeks ago announced they dropping their LoL team and focusing their resources on SC2 for now.
In other news, I've been enjoying Tasteless casting IPL5 Korean qualifier for GOMtv but the streams just died =.=
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There's so many "i was LoL sux then i tried it and i loved it" around here..interesting. I was the opposite, I played DotA a lot before but embraced LoL when it came out. Played through the end of beta up to the release of Ezrael. I don't know, personally LoL disappointed me when I got decent mechanically, as the greatest improvements are then of either general awareness and decision making. In DotA I'll always be improving my mechanics. What I want to say is that LoL's mechanical skill is learned more quick than DotA's, projectile speeds/movement speeds are much more streamlined compared to DotA2.
To me lack of LoS/denying in LoL is a bit like the lack of certain micro tricks/highground advantage in SC2..these things add dynamic to the game.
But what I always liked about LoL is that it tried to be different, HoN was just a real copy of DotA. I think LoL's strength could be in hero development, but Riot still is too stubborn. So many cool things could be done with spells/abilities, yet some ~champions~ feel so alike.
I think it's great Korea is picking up a new e-sport craze. If anyone can make a game truly wonderful it's the Korean pros!
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
what is the mechanical difference in lol and dota2 except you can last hit more minions/towers etc.
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For one DotA's animations have a ton more variations compared to LoL's. Most of the attack animations in LoL are very very similiar, one that I can remember that partially stands out is Annie's that a bit more delayed compared to others. But in general most of the animations are a lot more smooth. In Dota attack animations have all kinds of delays and graphical anomalies(to note, dota2 has fixed most of these razor/lina/zeus come to mind).
Second thing are turning speeds, I can't really remember any difference as far as turning goes between LoL's champions.(would be glad if someone mentions any champ?)
In DotA almost every hero turns with a different speed, this in turn affects the attack animation timing and spell-casts!
Now I consider all of this mostly mechanical-subtleties. But you could also say they're just behaviours/properties of how they work. In general if you just consider the UI and that mechanical aspect, there's also a substantial difference. In LoL you are pretty much locked to controlling your own hero + the pets via the default alt-key. Not much other control is needed.
Dota's UI is something like SC's where you can control multiple units at once. This comes down to champions again of course(or items- Manta/necro). For example if you're playing Nature's Prophet who has a spell that converts nearby trees to treants. You control both the hero and those units he summoned - this adds multitasking to the mix. As well as things like blocking enemy heroes, denying things with the summons, scouting etc.
There's other mechanical differences besides attack animations/turn speeds. Line of sight for example affects so much of the game, it adds another layer of awareness to the game and how you position yourself. But enough of that, I would consider LoL less mechanically-tough something like SC2 to BW, but this doesn't mean anything else but the fact that mechanics are in general easier to master. Same as SC2.
This is probably the only thing I hate about LoL. Of course you're always going to be trying to improve your mechanics, but the gains of improving them quickly diminish as you better yourself. This is not THAT present in DotA, personally.
User was warned for this post
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how can anyone play this game? IT IS SO UNINTERACTIVE. you can't deny creeps, towers, or allies. you can't pull creeps. and you press qwer with a good team strategy + engagement to win.
you can win 3 battles in a row and still lose the game. it is very FORGIVING. how can anyone stand this game is beyond me.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 22 2012 00:57 MicroTastiC wrote:
how can anyone play this game? IT IS SO UNINTERACTIVE. you can't deny creeps, towers, or allies. you can't pull creeps. and you press qwer with a good team strategy + engagement to win.
you can win 3 battles in a row and still lose the game. it is very FORGIVING. how can anyone stand this game is beyond me.
I agree on the uninteractive claim. The mechanics and controls feel very stiff and limited, which takes away many possibilities of making plays. On the other hand, this means most plays have to be done by mind games and decision making, which is also exciting if that's your strong point or if you're into that.
It is also true that the game is very forgiving, but have in mind that it is equally forgiving for you and your enemy, so in the end noone has an advantage over others. Being forgiving also is good in that it applies heavy pressure to one's psychology. In an unforgiving game, you win the battle, you win the game, fuck yes I'm da man. You lose the battle, oh well next time I'll do better, gg. But in this game it's not as easy to rejoice or resign. You need to stay focused until the very end, to not get overconfident nor too negative.
As many have said before me, LoL is a game that the noobest of noobs can play to a certain degree because it is so easy, yet it gets really hard to reach high stages, because it is a team game where you can't make the difference by pure skill and require you to have something else, call it balls, intelligence, morale, swag, leadership, whatever you want.
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LoL is not forgiving at all, most players think its too snowbally.
it also depends WHEN you lose a battle, there are times where you can lose and its no biggy and times where you straight up lose if you lose a single battle.
Just like a capped zerg with full larva and ressources can lose a battle.
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ye, calling LoL forgiving really shows how clueless you are, its actually one of the nice things about dota how lanes and games can be turned around much more often
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On October 22 2012 00:57 MicroTastiC wrote:
how can anyone play this game? IT IS SO UNINTERACTIVE. you can't deny creeps, towers, or allies. you can't pull creeps. and you press qwer with a good team strategy + engagement to win.
you can win 3 battles in a row and still lose the game. it is very FORGIVING. how can anyone stand this game is beyond me.
Thought that Imma agree with you that LoL has less room "to make plays" until you said LoL is forgiving ... 1 mistake in a sololane and you're fucked unless you get heavy jungle gank.
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On October 20 2012 08:30 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 08:25 Acer1791 wrote:On October 20 2012 08:07 fuzzy_panda wrote:On October 20 2012 07:23 adriftt wrote:
Its funny because myself + all my friends from DOTA/HoN were the same. Talked about how casual LoL was because you couldn't deny creeps ECT. Then we started playing and haven't touched DOTA since. There's a very big difference between something being easy, and something being simple. LoL is incredibly complex at the higher levels and that's why there can be a professional scene. No one would want to watch something that is easy and that they can do themselves. However they WILL watch something that is simple to understand and interpret coz u get the hang of the game really fast, but there is a big difference between well-executed, expert plays compared to average pubs. To me it's like football. simple, but not easy to master. well i dont know about that. i really like lol, but i dont see that lol is incredibly complex at any lvl. there are a few things you have to do better at high lvl of play like time the cooldowns (summoners and ultis) and understand which fight you can actually win, but in relation to both of the starcraft games and dota its kinda easy. the most fun (for me atleast) to watch in the lol proscene is that i have the feeling i know the players better than in sc2 (like tsm, clg na/eu and moscow5). till now there arent koreans/asians stomping EVERYONE. you could argue the season2 finals told a different story, but i think the EU teams were pretty descent and if the NA teams would take lol more seriously, the skillgap would close pretty fast. sry for my bad english, its pretty late here^^ Korea's only formally had LoL for less than a year. Give it another 6 months, the gap is going to be enormous.
The gap's never going to become enormous due to the nature of the game, but with all the major corporate sponsors in Korea lining up Kespa-style and the amount of Korean pro teams exceeding the amount of pro teams in all of EU / NA, it's indeed only a matter of time before Koreans gain the upper hand.
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On October 22 2012 03:04 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 08:30 TheYango wrote:On October 20 2012 08:25 Acer1791 wrote:On October 20 2012 08:07 fuzzy_panda wrote:On October 20 2012 07:23 adriftt wrote:
Its funny because myself + all my friends from DOTA/HoN were the same. Talked about how casual LoL was because you couldn't deny creeps ECT. Then we started playing and haven't touched DOTA since. There's a very big difference between something being easy, and something being simple. LoL is incredibly complex at the higher levels and that's why there can be a professional scene. No one would want to watch something that is easy and that they can do themselves. However they WILL watch something that is simple to understand and interpret coz u get the hang of the game really fast, but there is a big difference between well-executed, expert plays compared to average pubs. To me it's like football. simple, but not easy to master. well i dont know about that. i really like lol, but i dont see that lol is incredibly complex at any lvl. there are a few things you have to do better at high lvl of play like time the cooldowns (summoners and ultis) and understand which fight you can actually win, but in relation to both of the starcraft games and dota its kinda easy. the most fun (for me atleast) to watch in the lol proscene is that i have the feeling i know the players better than in sc2 (like tsm, clg na/eu and moscow5). till now there arent koreans/asians stomping EVERYONE. you could argue the season2 finals told a different story, but i think the EU teams were pretty descent and if the NA teams would take lol more seriously, the skillgap would close pretty fast. sry for my bad english, its pretty late here^^ Korea's only formally had LoL for less than a year. Give it another 6 months, the gap is going to be enormous. The gap's never going to become enormous due to the nature of the game, but with all the major corporate sponsors in Korea lining up Kespa-style and the amount of Korean pro teams exceeding the amount of pro teams in all of EU / NA, it's indeed only a matter of time before Koreans gain the upper hand.
u mustve missed this recent big tournament
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EPT
