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Flakes
United States3125 Posts
I'm not trying to backseat moderate, I just think it worked pretty well with the champion-specific discussion threads. Elo Hell ELO Hell: Definition and Discussion Runes [Help] Runes [Guide] Buying Runes GP10 [Items] Gold/10 Item Efficiencies Also, for searching within this subforum: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZVKxP.png) | ||
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Zhiroo
Kosovo2724 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:31 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: wait what they're removing dfg????? No but it needs a nerf since its broken at the moment  | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:19 DURRHURRDERP wrote: In fact, I think most people (not only those who are stuck at low elos) tend to internalize their experiences with the game and tend not to think too much about things. It is human nature to generalize and look for easy solutions. When things go wrong it is easy to just brush it off as a sort of "nothing I could have done" situation. Also, the effort it takes to think critically then apply it to your game and be constantly and consistently (every single game!) doing these things is so ridiculously difficult that people end up taking the easy route and blaming some external source (especially a source that is easy and somewhat justified to blame: teammates, etc). In short, improving (at LoL) is an extremely difficult and arduous process, and most people end up trying to take short cuts (ie: blaming team) instead of actually going through the process of improving themselves. I think there's an important distinction to make here: I'll argue that improving at low ELO is not very difficult. It does require effort and discipline. But it's not that players can't self-critically review their games; it's just that most players never do it. (That's an important difference: It's not too difficult for them, they're just not going about it in a productive way.) Spamming games without regard to your mindset and without trying to learn from your past performance is a very inefficient (and indeed arduous) way to improve; many people don't realize that and look for other factors (e.g. their team) to blame if they aren't getting better. I don't think this is unique to LoL, I've seen it in all of the (admittedly few) computer games I've played that had any kind of ranked match-making system. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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CrimsonLotus
Colombia1123 Posts
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Zhiroo
Kosovo2724 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:31 Flakes wrote: The solution to recurring GD topics is to direct people appropriate thread so that they can educate themselves on past discussions of the topic. Since the topics seem to come up a lot, the latest pages of these threads will presumably stay current if they are linked to enough times. I'm not trying to backseat moderate, I just think it worked pretty well with the champion-specific discussion threads. Elo Hell ELO Hell: Definition and Discussion That thread is pretty much on the nose, especially this link from Wave that was on there: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=173196¤tpage=9#161 On September 29 2012 02:36 CrimsonLotus wrote: As Maplphite player I love all the KZ, I just shut them down soooooo hard. As a Malphite player, how are you not consistently banned out all the time? | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:18 Requizen wrote: I have to respectfully disagree. There are games you cannot carry, and sometimes they happen game after game in a row. You can't carry when you have the only kills on your team and the enemy team has 20+ total. It's just not feasible, that's the way MOBAs work, even bad players who get really far ahead can win by having more items/levels, especially if your team has given up "in their hearts", so to speak, and refuses to try. Just because you can't carry every game doesn't mean you can't carry. It just means luck is luck. if you cant carry your way out of 1300s it means you cant carry period, stop making excuses. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:34 Zhiroo wrote: No but it needs a nerf since its broken at the moment DFG was always "broken", just people didn't build it as much (almost noone even tried to build i before it was changed), then despite the MR runes trend mid people also started building more squishy (less RoA, more DC, which make it easier to kill them since the remaining HP% after DFG is tinier). With abyssal rush other people realized that DFG actually made it even easier to shred squishies, and the gp10 trend made DFG easy to build since a lot of people built kage anyway. Then with abyssal nerf less people rushed it, which meant more would build DFG 1st instead of 2nd, and their lane opponents who also stopped building abyssal (eg. negatron) were thus easier to burst too. Add to that the "instagib" and all the flashiness that made Gragas FotM and you get your new trend. Though DFG bursted even harder before, it's just that it's somewhat easier to use for long range mages since its range was increased. It was good before, just never built (imagine Ezreal or Draven with a Zeke rush Nunu midgame, it's crazy good if you manage it, but nobody does it). | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:34 Zhiroo wrote: No but it needs a nerf since its broken at the moment no it doesnt wtf the first change to dfg was dumb they should change it back to what it was before zzzz fuck 985 combine cost - - | ||
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kaykaykay
Singapore637 Posts
I've recently started playing LoL again, after a really long break where i was 29. Just ding lvl 30 yesterday. I'm thinking of buying a new champ. I play a lot of leblanc because i like to roam about the map, particularly to places opponents wont even imagine and snipe them off 1v1 like a true assassin. However the problem i feel with leblanc is that she falls of pretty much the moment she can't 1 shot anybody. a good leblanc cannot afford to farm, she has to be picking off people all the time, something i'm sadly not skilled enough to handle. And in team fights where I've done all my spells, and i've this big window thinking "hmms..., so what do i do now." ( while waiting for my cooldowns to come back up ) So i've decided on these champions ahri / diana / akali (?) because i feel that you can afford to farm, and contribute to team fights better. Therefore which champion do you think i should get? Feel free to recomend me something you think i'd like. he or she should have high mobility and can kill something and get out fine before anyone on the opposing team can react. Thank you. | ||
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tobi9999
United States1966 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:44 zulu_nation8 wrote: if you cant carry your way out of 1300s it means you cant carry period, stop making excuses. my record in smurf games is almost 100% over a hundred games. The only game time i lose is when I start lagging horribly. If you belong in higher elo in league you will win 100% of the time assuming no smurfs on the enemy team. This is even true when I climbed from 1600 to 1800, it is literally a cakewalk where everyone feeds you. All you have to change is attitude. If you start thinking "it's not feasible" you won't be focused on playing. I've won several games where we get invaded and triple killed and then 1 person ragequits. And then I end up winning 4v5 with a massive disadvantage. Simply put, if you are not winning your games then you are not doing good. KDA does not mean ANYTHING. Just because you went 20-0 does not necessarily mean you played good. Winning means you played good unless there was a smurf on your team that carried you, if your teams elo and the enemy teams elo are the same, then winning means you did good even if you went negative or did not have a high gold count. Losing means you didn't play good enough. There is no measurement of skill aside from win ratio. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:44 zulu_nation8 wrote: if you cant carry your way out of 1300s it means you cant carry period, stop making excuses. How many times do I have to state it? Eventually, yes, you can. I agree, over the long run. But to pretend that you can carry every single game regardless of what your team is or what the enemy team is doing, that's blatantly untrue and facetious. "Carrying" yourself out of a certain bracket isn't something you do in a weekend because you win every single game in a row, it's something that averages out over weeks. Because for every good, standard game you have, there are one or two that are complete luck thanks to one side or the other doing stupid shit all game, and your skill has no influence on the game at all. If you're saying that you've never had streaks of games where it was truly unwinnable (enemy AD or "assassin type" getting fed, afks/feeders), and that even with blatantly shit team members against enemies that aren't completely stupid you carry 100% of the time, you're either lying, or the luckiest individual playing League (or any other randomly matched competitive team game for that matter). | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
KDA and winrates have strong correlation, but KDA by itself is a fairly meaningless stat. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:54 Requizen wrote: How many times do I have to state it? Eventually, yes, you can. I agree, over the long run. But to pretend that you can carry every single game regardless of what your team is or what the enemy team is doing, that's blatantly untrue and facetious. "Carrying" yourself out of a certain bracket isn't something you do in a weekend because you win every single game in a row, it's something that averages out over weeks. Because for every good, standard game you have, there are one or two that are complete luck thanks to one side or the other doing stupid shit all game, and your skill has no influence on the game at all. If you're saying that you've never had streaks of games where it was truly unwinnable (enemy AD or "assassin type" getting fed, afks/feeders), and that even with blatantly shit team members against enemies that aren't completely stupid you carry 100% of the time, you're either lying, or the luckiest individual playing League (or any other randomly matched competitive team game for that matter). i think im like 30-1 not exaggerating duoing with rhavanna/shake from 1400-1700 elo. I'm probably 10-1 or so soloing. There's maybe 1 game out of 10 that's impossible carry but only because I'm not good enough. I've seen 2300 smurfs carry impossible games at 1900, don't think 2k+ should lose any games at 1300s. | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:52 tobi9999 wrote: my record in smurf games is almost 100% over a hundred games. The only game time i lose is when I start lagging horribly. If you belong in higher elo in league you will win 100% of the time assuming no smurfs on the enemy team. This is even true when I climbed from 1600 to 1800, it is literally a cakewalk where everyone feeds you. All you have to change is attitude. If you start thinking "it's not feasible" you won't be focused on playing. I've won several games where we get invaded and triple killed and then 1 person ragequits. And then I end up winning 4v5 with a massive disadvantage. Simply put, if you are not winning your games then you are not doing good. KDA does not mean ANYTHING. Just because you went 20-0 does not necessarily mean you played good. Winning means you played good unless there was a smurf on your team that carried you, if your teams elo and the enemy teams elo are the same, then winning means you did good even if you went negative or did not have a high gold count. Losing means you didn't play good enough. There is no measurement of skill aside from win ratio. Almost 100% is often not realistic to expect, there's just too many smurfs at some times of the day (and certain ELO ranges). But yes, this. Several high-ELO players have demonstrated that they can easily carry their accounts back from pretty much anywhere to their "normal" ELO, often even doing silly things like playing only one champ no matter what. (There's several reddit threads and other accounts of people doing this, they're not that hard to find. The conclusion was always the same. And yes, they had the same amount of feeding and trolling teammates as anyone else at that ELO does.) | ||
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tobi9999
United States1966 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:54 Requizen wrote: How many times do I have to state it? Eventually, yes, you can. I agree, over the long run. But to pretend that you can carry every single game regardless of what your team is or what the enemy team is doing, that's blatantly untrue and facetious. "Carrying" yourself out of a certain bracket isn't something you do in a weekend because you win every single game in a row, it's something that averages out over weeks. Because for every good, standard game you have, there are one or two that are complete luck thanks to one side or the other doing stupid shit all game, and your skill has no influence on the game at all. If you're saying that you've never had streaks of games where it was truly unwinnable (enemy AD or "assassin type" getting fed, afks/feeders), and that even with blatantly shit team members against enemies that aren't completely stupid you carry 100% of the time, you're either lying, or the luckiest individual playing League (or any other randomly matched competitive team game for that matter). Ask Breathe or Sexysaluki or any other person I've given elo welfare to I win 50 games in a row and bam they're 1400~ you just aren't playing the game as well as you think you are dude. Solo queue is about your individual skill, if you blame your teammates you will never go anywhere. Also, you just have to accept that a lot of "blatantly shit team members" are actually better players than you esp if they are higher elo. It is just your perception which is extremely biased making that judgement. I've fed like 0-5 and have had like 1200 elo players call me blatantly shit, but still man, 100% win rate no losses =). | ||
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
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Mondeezy
United States1938 Posts
On September 29 2012 01:10 Mondeezy wrote: So, just out of curiosity.. if I played duo queue with a friend still doing placement matches (I'm about 1350, right now I'm guessing he's around 1000 or 1050 with his current record), would that be better for him than him trying to solo queue his games? Also, would it impact my rating significantly? Bumping this because no response. Pretty much just curious if duoing with someone in low-elo placement matches as a higher elo will have any significant difference from duoing with someone at my elo. | ||
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upperbound
United States2300 Posts
On September 29 2012 02:19 DURRHURRDERP wrote: This is very true. LoL is not too challenging mechanically but revolves around being able to make the best choices in a variety of different situations. There are usually a ton of variables to consider in deciding whether a team wins or loses and you need to be extremely familiar with the flow of a game (as well as the aforementioned variables) to be able to pin point the things you yourself did wrong (especially when your own mistakes are overshadowed by others). BW/SC2 is different in this regard as it is usually pretty easy to see the mistakes being made (though fixing said mistakes is as hard or even harder). It also doesn't help that the main thing that helps you improve is the ability to think critically about (and focus on) your own play. There aren't really any short cuts to developing this ability to be critical, but there are some things that can help: - Watching high level players + thinking about what they do/don't do + compare that with your own play and your own thinking - Reviewing your games with lolreplay or making notes/records of your games and seeing where you went wrong - Having a high elo player review your play and give you critique. The main thing is just thinking critically about your own play and what you could have done better or differently. Like in your example scenarios, I don't think you even realize how many variables there actually are. Example: "camped by Lee Sin top off a red start when you're blue side and go down 10-15 cs. What do I do to minimize disadvantage in lane and stay competitive through the laning phase, and to what extent do I just have to accept some cs/exp losses and move on?" There are sooo many variables here that you need to consider, such as: champion (who's champ scales better later? can you even assist in a gank if your jungler comes? can you easily escape jungle ganks?), matchup (do you win your lane/how hard do you win your lane 1v1?), setup (do you have the most optimal/safe setup for your champ? is your setup very all-inish or is it safe?), item build (are you building the right items?), your jungler (is he able to gank or is he more farm/objective oriented?), and your team comp (is your champion weak in lane but strong in teamfights or vice versa?). (I'm probably missing some, but I can't think too clearly atm) In fact, I think most people (not only those who are stuck at low elos) tend to internalize their experiences with the game and tend not to think too much about things. It is human nature to generalize and look for easy solutions. When things go wrong it is easy to just brush it off as a sort of "nothing I could have done" situation. Also, the effort it takes to think critically then apply it to your game and be constantly and consistently (every single game!) doing these things is so ridiculously difficult that people end up taking the easy route and blaming some external source (especially a source that is easy and somewhat justified to blame: teammates, etc). In short, improving (at LoL) is an extremely difficult and arduous process, and most people end up trying to take short cuts (ie: blaming team) instead of actually going through the process of improving themselves. I completely agree with you that I don't take enough things into account with my decisionmaking. I'm a proponent against Elo hell because I've seen good progress pretty regularly through the motions. The factors that you listed are ones that I regularly try to grapple with, and I improve when I get those wrong. But I think that an even greater barrier to my improvement are that there are other factors that I don't even know should be considered. For example, how much does the decision in that situation depend on favorability of other lane matchups (this is just one that I don't usually consider, but it's difficult to give examples that I'm unaware of). Currently, my process is to take notes on my games and understand matchups and try to make myself super aware of bad habits that I notice so I can practice on them most importantly. Like, right now, my biggest flaw in lane is that I tend not to press advantages safely when they are most pronounced. In the Olaf v. Irelia matchup, for example, when I saw their jungle Mao gank mid at level 3 and get pretty low, I should have been trading hard with Irelia at level 3-4 to try to force her out of lane when I have an advantage. I didn't do this, and therefore I only stayed even in a lane that I should have gotten a lead in (though Irelia would have stabilized, most likely) despite my Rengar not ganking my lane all game because our bot was losing and he tried to help stabilize by camping it. I'm writing a novel... so I'm going to wrap this up with a TL;DR: I feel like I'm getting better in discrete areas over which I have the most control, but that there are other, more important areas that I could be better and am not because I don't necessarily know what I should be doing. Maybe I should be more active in LiquidPractice and ask to see if I can get some games that include some better players who will throw me a bone here and there. | ||
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