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zodde
Sweden1908 Posts
On September 09 2012 01:10 Abenson wrote: Chaox/Xpecial are the theorycrafters on TSM, and they handle all the picks and bans as well. They should teach TOO some basic math  | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 09 2012 01:10 Abenson wrote: Chaox/Xpecial are the theorycrafters on TSM, and they handle all the picks and bans as well. Explains a lot about how Regi can play stupid shit like gp10 TF when Chaox can't even do the math for ArPen vs. AD marks correctly. | ||
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DURRHURRDERP
Canada929 Posts
On September 09 2012 01:12 TheKefka wrote: If ap rengar is so broken,why not just build him like ap amumu if you really want to jungle him that bad,just without the doran rings and build kages instead,max W,etc. He just seems a lot stronger in lane and with the extra gold and experience that you get from laning instead of jungling, it makes more sense to lane AP Rengar (with that extra gold+exp you'll be bursting harder in the mid/late game). It's also probably somewhat difficult to gank on Rengar pre-6, and his post-6 ganks are only strong if you have enough burst. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35162 Posts
On September 09 2012 01:17 TheYango wrote: Explains a lot about how Regi can play stupid shit like gp10 TF when Chaox can't even do the math for ArPen vs. AD marks correctly. Some explanation is required. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On September 09 2012 01:19 DURRHURRDERP wrote: He just seems a lot stronger in lane and with the extra gold and experience that you get from laning instead of jungling, it makes more sense to lane AP Rengar (with that extra gold+exp you'll be bursting harder in the mid/late game). It's also probably somewhat difficult to gank on Rengar pre-6, and his post-6 ganks are only strong if you have enough burst. I know that's why I said you should only do it if you are dead set on jungling.That was the point of discussion. Like people were trying to convince me diana jungle is sooo good.It's like yea but you can go mid and kill people,outfarm everyone on the map and roam so what's the point. But yea oddone is jungling rengar so people started the talk about q vs W max in the jungle. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
The only reason to use AD marks is for smoother lasthitting during laning phase. Which is a fine reason, but trying to twist them into being good for anything else is stupid. | ||
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Glaceau
Wales333 Posts
A sub-reason is that the older carries like tristana/ashe dont really have that great of AD scaling while new champs like graves and new ezrael and new corki have some pretty beast scaling with AD, but the latter 2 dont even do physical damage with the abilities...its magic damage. So the armor pen is less universal... | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 09 2012 01:27 Glaceau wrote: the most important reason was that they buffed AD runes, just took a while for people to get the IP to buy it and stuff. lol? The AD rune buff happened in October 2010. The major shift to AD marks happened around the time the new masteries came into place, in November 2011. You're telling me it took pro players A YEAR to save for a set of 205 IP runes? | ||
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Gahlo
United States35162 Posts
On September 09 2012 01:22 TheYango wrote: His reasoning for why he changed to using AD marks from using ArPen marks was that supposedly they were better than ArPen with the introduction of the 10% ArPen mastery. Which is just wrong. ArPen is still mathematically stronger for vs. Champion DPS at relevant AD/enemy armor values. This is true even after you have Last Whisper. AD reds are just that shitty. The only reason to use AD marks is for smoother lasthitting during laning phase. Which is a fine reason, but trying to twist them into being good for anything else is stupid. And early game, they are. I don't think he ever said they were better vs champions lategame. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 09 2012 01:35 Gahlo wrote: And early game, they are. I don't think he ever said they were better vs champions lategame. He used the % ArPen mastery and the poor stacking of % ArPen with flat ArPen as the reason. Which only is remotely relevant in lategame situations where % ArPen is relevant. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 09 2012 01:47 arb wrote: Oh man its the AD vs ArPen debate for the 50000th time. The debate itself is settled. I don't think anyone has any delusions about that. It has more to do with how the history of it played out. | ||
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Caphe
Vietnam10817 Posts
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
max w, then q second imo, with 1 lvl of e at 2 or 4. I would prob do double dorans into wits end with mercs for the build. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
Theorycraft is a powerful tool, but only if you have the basic mathematical and scientific competency to use it properly. A lot of would-be theorycrafters fail on the math, and most of the rest have trouble coming up with practical scenarios or interpreting their results correctly. You can't have a complete picture with theorycraft alone, but then you also can't have a complete picture without it. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On September 09 2012 02:09 Seuss wrote: Theorycrafting is pretty important. GuardsmanBob used to build Aegis a lot way back in the day and he constantly got flak for it on his stream. He had done the math and saw how stupidly efficient it was. It took ages for the power of Aegis to sink in to the community. Theorycraft is a powerful tool, but only if you have the basic mathematical and scientific competency to use it properly. A lot of would-be theorycrafters fail on the math, and most of the rest have trouble coming up with practical scenarios or interpreting their results correctly. You can't have a complete picture with theorycraft alone, but then you also can't have a complete picture without it. I think theorycrafting has trouble taking utility into account, but overall is def a good tool to have. I tend to do a lot of stuff based on instinct tho, and leave the actual math stuff to you/yango/smash/etc :D. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On September 09 2012 02:00 Caphe wrote: Need quick help Irelia vs Vlad top. What skills order? Replay quick as I was in game ThanksI usually go W>E>Q, (Q cd shorter than W anyway), boots+3, MR blues and quints, double NMM and then when he can't do any damage to him I focus on finishing wit's before buying some HP. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On September 08 2012 13:20 xes wrote: Fizz is kind of hard for Swain because of his heal debuff. He has the advantage but one misstep and you get fish'd and die. Ryze can build Mercs and stack negatrons and still do a million damage. Pretty late to this, but I'm not sure why you think that Swain can't build early mr as well. If Swain is really losing his lane/struggling, he can get away with building mercs/chalice/SV. You do not need a lot of ap early on as Swain to do a ridiculous amount of damage. His level 6 is very dangerous if he gets w>e>q+ignite>ult all at once. Also, since Fizz is pretty much an all in champion, you better be sure you're going to kill Swain, or else you're 99% likely to be killed in the process. Basically, Swain has a bit more room than some other aps early on. Sure, going SV quickly may not be the most ideal thing on him, but he can get away with it, where most aps wouldn't. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On September 09 2012 02:13 Alaric wrote: I usually go W>E>Q, (Q cd shorter than W anyway), boots+3, MR blues and quints, double NMM and then when he can't do any damage to him I focus on finishing wit's before buying some HP. I don't think maxing E before Q is good in any matchup,pretty sure your supposed to go R>W>Q>E because E doesn't get any cd reduction with lvls,the slow/stun time increase isn't that huge and it's not really a good nuke,the amount of slow on it also never increases it's always 60%. Q gets tremendous cd reduction with lvls and allows you to chase people down so easy.+it scales with ad | ||
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Glaceau
Wales333 Posts
On September 09 2012 01:32 TheYango wrote: lol? The AD rune buff happened in October 2010. The major shift to AD marks happened around the time the new masteries came into place, in November 2011. You're telling me it took pro players A YEAR to save for a set of 205 IP runes? nope, im saying they would have never started getting use without their buff. they were too weak. | ||
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