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On August 28 2012 23:05 Schwopzi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2012 22:12 Simberto wrote:
I doubt you'd want a full AD carry build on a melee, so i think a good build on rengar should focus on blowing a squishy up in one combo, and then being as tanky as possible so you can actually survive a bit afterwards, and still do stuff. At least that is where i think the strengths of that champion lie. Attackspeed or crit don't really help a lot with that (or can his q crit?), especially since you already got 2 AA resets in your combo anyways.
Lets say you are trying to kill a 2000 hp guy with 50 armor, which sounds like about what an AD carry has at level 18. To kill him, you need to do 3000 physical damage. Rengars full combo of empQ, empQ, Q W, E which we talked about some pages back does 630+255m+6AD+0.7 bonusAD. Lets say you also do 2 AAs, and the guy has as much MR as as he Armor, making it a total of 885+8AD+0.7bonusAD. To do 3000eHP damage, you would need about 250 total AD. If he has 4000eHP, you would need 370. All squishies should be somewhere in between those, probably closer to the 3000.
Of course, this is mostly me theorycrafting, but i don't see why you would want crit / AS, since if you sacrifice AD for it, you can no longer instantly kill their carries, and if you sacrifice survival, you probably won't live long enough afterwards to profit from that AS/crit in any way. It's really common to have a aegis on team when the first people hit 18, as well as ad carrys allready starting their GA. Taking 50 armor as base feels like underestimating. You also use 2 empowered q's in your rotation; I'm assuming you're thinking off starting off with emp q then ulting to get another empowered q. However when the ad is properly positioned you'll need your ult to close the distance initially; therefor giving your rotation one less empowered Q.
Empowered Q's on-next-hit buff lasts 6 seconds. If you're already at full Ferocity you can hit your ult, hit Q just before you stealth (~0.75 seconds is the fade time), then jump the enemy AD with both an active Empowered Q and full Ferocity to follow it up with a second. You've got 2-3 seconds of leeway depending on your execution.
Rengar is pretty buggy/bad right now though. His E often fails to do anything at all (no slow, damage, or Ferocity) despite going on cooldown. His hitbox is old school Cho'gath levels of awkward, making it extremely difficult to chase people when you don't have convenient bushes. Finally, as sick as his 6.0-6.7 AD combo sounds, other bruisers match or come close to that fairly easily (e.g. Pantheon's QWEQ combo is 6.4-7.1 AD, and Wukong's EQR is 6.7).
Now, if Rengar had his old Necklace and you had a full stack of trophies you'd be able to triple Q, which would be 9.2 AD and would be really sick, which is probably why we don't have old Necklace.
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So I've got a bit of an interesting question.
As far as mid-lane goes, if you're getting tower-dived by two people, who is the best champion to be playing?
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On August 29 2012 00:37 VirgilSC2 wrote:
So I've got a bit of an interesting question.
As far as mid-lane goes, if you're getting tower-dived by two people, who is the best champion to be playing?
Zilean comes to mind first, but I haven't seen him too often now.
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anyone, you should never not get at least one kill if you get dove mid
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Zyra, place 2 plants, snare, ult, boom double kill. even if you die you can use your passive to finish them off
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Seriously though, either Nunu top is the most OP piece of shit in the game, or I coincidentally only get competent teammates when playing it. 2 Jayce top games, team is stupid as fuck, jungles are useless, and throws everywhere. Nunu support game, Vayne picks into Draven, gets rolled, blames me, and mid rages the entire time.
10+ Nunu top games recently and my teammates are respectful, helpful, and win lane or go even. Then go to win all of said games ezpz.
My mind, she boggles. Either the universe just wants me to play nothing but Yeti Top or coincidence and chance are giggling maniacally in a corner somewhere.
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Maybe reasonable teammates allow you to get Nunu top? Don't know what champ select was like for those games but could be part of it 
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I only picked Jayce when Nunu was taken or banned (lol), and supported him when our last pick instalocked Jungle Noc, causing our jungle Cho to go top and me to switch to support (it went badly). So yeah, I guess the third one was a loss at champ select because assholes, but still.
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On August 29 2012 00:37 VirgilSC2 wrote:
So I've got a bit of an interesting question.
As far as mid-lane goes, if you're getting tower-dived by two people, who is the best champion to be playing?
Viktor. W stun, ult, Q, E = dead enemies
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i think skarner is gonna become permbanned soon
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Is that naut inbetween kat and darius in the pool party picture?
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On August 29 2012 01:10 Sermokala wrote:
Is that naut inbetween kat and darius in the pool party picture?
It is yorick.
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On August 29 2012 00:41 zulu_nation8 wrote:
anyone, you should never not get at least one kill if you get dove mid
Yeah, I'm aware of that.
I'm asking for more of "who comes out of that situation 2-0 and not 1-1"
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Also, I have a quick question. What is keeping Sion from being viable? Ranged stun/harass, "free" health, good steroid, defensive/offensive shield, and decent base stats.
Mostly asking because I'm looking at more underplayed and possibly viable champions after experiencing the Yeti  There are a couple others too, like bruiser top Taric and Leona, but I just never really understood what Sion's big pitfall is aside from lack of mobility and gap closer.
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United States15536 Posts
On August 29 2012 01:14 Requizen wrote:Also, I have a quick question. What is keeping Sion from being viable? Ranged stun/harass, "free" health, good steroid, defensive/offensive shield, and decent base stats. Mostly asking because I'm looking at more underplayed and possibly viable champions after experiencing the Yeti There are a couple others too, like bruiser top Taric and Leona, but I just never really understood what Sion's big pitfall is aside from lack of mobility and gap closer.
ERMAGERD, if I could Leona top I would do it all day every day.
Edit: I imagine that build would be something like 2x DRings, Abyssal, etc., much like Malphite or something.
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On August 29 2012 01:14 Requizen wrote:Also, I have a quick question. What is keeping Sion from being viable? Ranged stun/harass, "free" health, good steroid, defensive/offensive shield, and decent base stats. Mostly asking because I'm looking at more underplayed and possibly viable champions after experiencing the Yeti There are a couple others too, like bruiser top Taric and Leona, but I just never really understood what Sion's big pitfall is aside from lack of mobility and gap closer.
I think you pretty much named it. Better less kiteable AD options, damage falls off and shield gets popped for AP.
Edit: I want to try Leona top now
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I think the issue there is that she has no escape other than stun'n'run, and that her only ranged harass either a) pulls her towards the enemy or b) is her ult. Although, Zenith -> Stun -> walk away harass sounds pretty decent, and good tankiness means that she should be able to stay up there a long time. Lack of sustain would be a problem.
I dunno, I think with a ranged stun and plenty of health, he's not too terribly kite-able. If he wasn't, it'd probably be way too strong. MS quints and masteries + TF/bruiser Sion?
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Hm. What would one build on top Leona? I think the missing ratios on basically everything could be problematic, and of course you always shove lane when you trade, but i think you might be able to get pretty good onesided harass in with w-e-q-run away. Of course, you have absurd gank assist, too.
0 sustain might be a problem, and the fact that your passive is completely useless top is problematic, too.
I'd guess you want some damage from somewhere. Your AP ratios are pretty bad, so i doubt that that would be the way. Triforce is stupid because you dont really have a spammable spell to proc it. CdR is probably pretty key on her, and you need sustain from somewhere if you want to stay top. You have pretty absurd sticking power and built-in tankiness, so i guess some AD might be an idea, or maybe something like wits for damage. I still think that you will have a large problem getting relevant amounts of damage.
Edit: Or you go triforce, with maxed CdR your q has a 4.2 second CD. that might actually work.
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If you're talking about top Leona you should ask our resident top lane Leona expert, Milestone for that
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On August 29 2012 01:26 Simberto wrote:
Hm. What would one build on top Leona? I think the missing ratios on basically everything could be problematic, and of course you always shove lane when you trade, but i think you might be able to get pretty good onesided harass in with w-e-q-run away. Of course, you have absurd gank assist, too.
0 sustain might be a problem, and the fact that your passive is completely useless top is problematic, too.
I'd guess you want some damage from somewhere. Your AP ratios are pretty bad, so i doubt that that would be the way. Triforce is stupid because you dont really have a spammable spell to proc it. CdR is probably pretty key on her, and you need sustain from somewhere if you want to stay top. You have pretty absurd sticking power and built-in tankiness, so i guess some AD might be an idea, or maybe something like wits for damage. I still think that you will have a large problem getting relevant amounts of damage.
AS and/or CDR sound pretty good on her. With all the AoE damage, you could do something lulzy like get Ionic and be a pushing monstrosity that can't die. What other good AS items are there? MBR is probably too silly/expensive, though she might be a candidate for running hybrid runes and taking advantage of it. Wit's is always bloody amazing because, well, Wit's. Guinsoo's might be really good, Malady is probably not, Nashor's actually would be decent for her. You could also be an aura slut and go Zeke's.
Edit: CDR tanky TF build? TF + Shurelya/Zeke/FH/Athene/Soul Shroud (lol). Her base damage is kind of middling to low, though. But a tanky support top lane is interesting.
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EPT
