• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:59
CEST 18:59
KST 01:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)52Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format16[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!5Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back12BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) [D] Wireframe Casting Removed Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format Is the larve respawn broken?
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 GSL CK #5 Race War RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion NaDa’s Body Followup BW General Discussion Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map) Etiquete rules in Asl?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
The Experiences We Want and …
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10766 users

[Patch 1.0.0.145: Rengar] General Discussion - Page 171

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 169 170 171 172 173 189 Next
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
August 28 2012 15:05 GMT
#3401
On August 28 2012 23:05 Schwopzi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2012 22:12 Simberto wrote:
I doubt you'd want a full AD carry build on a melee, so i think a good build on rengar should focus on blowing a squishy up in one combo, and then being as tanky as possible so you can actually survive a bit afterwards, and still do stuff. At least that is where i think the strengths of that champion lie. Attackspeed or crit don't really help a lot with that (or can his q crit?), especially since you already got 2 AA resets in your combo anyways.

Lets say you are trying to kill a 2000 hp guy with 50 armor, which sounds like about what an AD carry has at level 18. To kill him, you need to do 3000 physical damage. Rengars full combo of empQ, empQ, Q W, E which we talked about some pages back does 630+255m+6AD+0.7 bonusAD. Lets say you also do 2 AAs, and the guy has as much MR as as he Armor, making it a total of 885+8AD+0.7bonusAD. To do 3000eHP damage, you would need about 250 total AD. If he has 4000eHP, you would need 370. All squishies should be somewhere in between those, probably closer to the 3000.

Of course, this is mostly me theorycrafting, but i don't see why you would want crit / AS, since if you sacrifice AD for it, you can no longer instantly kill their carries, and if you sacrifice survival, you probably won't live long enough afterwards to profit from that AS/crit in any way.


It's really common to have a aegis on team when the first people hit 18, as well as ad carrys allready starting their GA. Taking 50 armor as base feels like underestimating.
You also use 2 empowered q's in your rotation; I'm assuming you're thinking off starting off with emp q then ulting to get another empowered q. However when the ad is properly positioned you'll need your ult to close the distance initially; therefor giving your rotation one less empowered Q.


Empowered Q's on-next-hit buff lasts 6 seconds. If you're already at full Ferocity you can hit your ult, hit Q just before you stealth (~0.75 seconds is the fade time), then jump the enemy AD with both an active Empowered Q and full Ferocity to follow it up with a second. You've got 2-3 seconds of leeway depending on your execution.

Rengar is pretty buggy/bad right now though. His E often fails to do anything at all (no slow, damage, or Ferocity) despite going on cooldown. His hitbox is old school Cho'gath levels of awkward, making it extremely difficult to chase people when you don't have convenient bushes. Finally, as sick as his 6.0-6.7 AD combo sounds, other bruisers match or come close to that fairly easily (e.g. Pantheon's QWEQ combo is 6.4-7.1 AD, and Wukong's EQR is 6.7).

Now, if Rengar had his old Necklace and you had a full stack of trophies you'd be able to triple Q, which would be 9.2 AD and would be really sick, which is probably why we don't have old Necklace.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
VirgilSC2
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States6151 Posts
August 28 2012 15:37 GMT
#3402
So I've got a bit of an interesting question.

As far as mid-lane goes, if you're getting tower-dived by two people, who is the best champion to be playing?
Clarity Gaming #1 Fan | Avid MTG Grinder | @VirgilSC2
Celestial
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States652 Posts
August 28 2012 15:39 GMT
#3403
On August 29 2012 00:37 VirgilSC2 wrote:
So I've got a bit of an interesting question.

As far as mid-lane goes, if you're getting tower-dived by two people, who is the best champion to be playing?


Zilean comes to mind first, but I haven't seen him too often now.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
August 28 2012 15:41 GMT
#3404
anyone, you should never not get at least one kill if you get dove mid
MooMooMugi
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States10531 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-28 15:42:13
August 28 2012 15:41 GMT
#3405
Zyra, place 2 plants, snare, ult, boom double kill. even if you die you can use your passive to finish them off
|LoL & SC2 IGN both my username| Just livin' the baylife| Hearthstone ID: MooMooMugi#1544| Dank Memer since 2011
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
August 28 2012 15:41 GMT
#3406
Seriously though, either Nunu top is the most OP piece of shit in the game, or I coincidentally only get competent teammates when playing it. 2 Jayce top games, team is stupid as fuck, jungles are useless, and throws everywhere. Nunu support game, Vayne picks into Draven, gets rolled, blames me, and mid rages the entire time.

10+ Nunu top games recently and my teammates are respectful, helpful, and win lane or go even. Then go to win all of said games ezpz.

My mind, she boggles. Either the universe just wants me to play nothing but Yeti Top or coincidence and chance are giggling maniacally in a corner somewhere.
It's your boy Guzma!
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12705 Posts
August 28 2012 15:49 GMT
#3407
Maybe reasonable teammates allow you to get Nunu top? Don't know what champ select was like for those games but could be part of it
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
August 28 2012 15:52 GMT
#3408
I only picked Jayce when Nunu was taken or banned (lol), and supported him when our last pick instalocked Jungle Noc, causing our jungle Cho to go top and me to switch to support (it went badly). So yeah, I guess the third one was a loss at champ select because assholes, but still.
It's your boy Guzma!
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
August 28 2012 15:59 GMT
#3409
On August 29 2012 00:37 VirgilSC2 wrote:
So I've got a bit of an interesting question.

As far as mid-lane goes, if you're getting tower-dived by two people, who is the best champion to be playing?


Viktor. W stun, ult, Q, E = dead enemies
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
August 28 2012 16:06 GMT
#3410
i think skarner is gonna become permbanned soon
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14159 Posts
August 28 2012 16:10 GMT
#3411
Is that naut inbetween kat and darius in the pool party picture?
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Leonite7
Profile Joined July 2011
Ireland921 Posts
August 28 2012 16:10 GMT
#3412
On August 29 2012 01:10 Sermokala wrote:
Is that naut inbetween kat and darius in the pool party picture?

It is yorick.
VirgilSC2
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States6151 Posts
August 28 2012 16:12 GMT
#3413
On August 29 2012 00:41 zulu_nation8 wrote:
anyone, you should never not get at least one kill if you get dove mid

Yeah, I'm aware of that.

I'm asking for more of "who comes out of that situation 2-0 and not 1-1"
Clarity Gaming #1 Fan | Avid MTG Grinder | @VirgilSC2
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
August 28 2012 16:14 GMT
#3414
Also, I have a quick question. What is keeping Sion from being viable? Ranged stun/harass, "free" health, good steroid, defensive/offensive shield, and decent base stats.

Mostly asking because I'm looking at more underplayed and possibly viable champions after experiencing the Yeti There are a couple others too, like bruiser top Taric and Leona, but I just never really understood what Sion's big pitfall is aside from lack of mobility and gap closer.
It's your boy Guzma!
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-28 16:22:38
August 28 2012 16:17 GMT
#3415
On August 29 2012 01:14 Requizen wrote:
Also, I have a quick question. What is keeping Sion from being viable? Ranged stun/harass, "free" health, good steroid, defensive/offensive shield, and decent base stats.

Mostly asking because I'm looking at more underplayed and possibly viable champions after experiencing the Yeti There are a couple others too, like bruiser top Taric and Leona, but I just never really understood what Sion's big pitfall is aside from lack of mobility and gap closer.


ERMAGERD, if I could Leona top I would do it all day every day.

Edit: I imagine that build would be something like 2x DRings, Abyssal, etc., much like Malphite or something.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12705 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-28 16:18:19
August 28 2012 16:17 GMT
#3416
On August 29 2012 01:14 Requizen wrote:
Also, I have a quick question. What is keeping Sion from being viable? Ranged stun/harass, "free" health, good steroid, defensive/offensive shield, and decent base stats.

Mostly asking because I'm looking at more underplayed and possibly viable champions after experiencing the Yeti There are a couple others too, like bruiser top Taric and Leona, but I just never really understood what Sion's big pitfall is aside from lack of mobility and gap closer.

I think you pretty much named it. Better less kiteable AD options, damage falls off and shield gets popped for AP.

Edit: I want to try Leona top now
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-28 16:23:22
August 28 2012 16:21 GMT
#3417
I think the issue there is that she has no escape other than stun'n'run, and that her only ranged harass either a) pulls her towards the enemy or b) is her ult. Although, Zenith -> Stun -> walk away harass sounds pretty decent, and good tankiness means that she should be able to stay up there a long time. Lack of sustain would be a problem.

I dunno, I think with a ranged stun and plenty of health, he's not too terribly kite-able. If he wasn't, it'd probably be way too strong. MS quints and masteries + TF/bruiser Sion?
It's your boy Guzma!
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11928 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-28 16:28:21
August 28 2012 16:26 GMT
#3418
Hm. What would one build on top Leona? I think the missing ratios on basically everything could be problematic, and of course you always shove lane when you trade, but i think you might be able to get pretty good onesided harass in with w-e-q-run away. Of course, you have absurd gank assist, too.

0 sustain might be a problem, and the fact that your passive is completely useless top is problematic, too.

I'd guess you want some damage from somewhere. Your AP ratios are pretty bad, so i doubt that that would be the way. Triforce is stupid because you dont really have a spammable spell to proc it. CdR is probably pretty key on her, and you need sustain from somewhere if you want to stay top. You have pretty absurd sticking power and built-in tankiness, so i guess some AD might be an idea, or maybe something like wits for damage. I still think that you will have a large problem getting relevant amounts of damage.

Edit: Or you go triforce, with maxed CdR your q has a 4.2 second CD. that might actually work.
MooMooMugi
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States10531 Posts
August 28 2012 16:27 GMT
#3419
If you're talking about top Leona you should ask our resident top lane Leona expert, Milestone for that
|LoL & SC2 IGN both my username| Just livin' the baylife| Hearthstone ID: MooMooMugi#1544| Dank Memer since 2011
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-28 16:39:28
August 28 2012 16:31 GMT
#3420
On August 29 2012 01:26 Simberto wrote:
Hm. What would one build on top Leona? I think the missing ratios on basically everything could be problematic, and of course you always shove lane when you trade, but i think you might be able to get pretty good onesided harass in with w-e-q-run away. Of course, you have absurd gank assist, too.

0 sustain might be a problem, and the fact that your passive is completely useless top is problematic, too.

I'd guess you want some damage from somewhere. Your AP ratios are pretty bad, so i doubt that that would be the way. Triforce is stupid because you dont really have a spammable spell to proc it. CdR is probably pretty key on her, and you need sustain from somewhere if you want to stay top. You have pretty absurd sticking power and built-in tankiness, so i guess some AD might be an idea, or maybe something like wits for damage. I still think that you will have a large problem getting relevant amounts of damage.

AS and/or CDR sound pretty good on her. With all the AoE damage, you could do something lulzy like get Ionic and be a pushing monstrosity that can't die. What other good AS items are there? MBR is probably too silly/expensive, though she might be a candidate for running hybrid runes and taking advantage of it. Wit's is always bloody amazing because, well, Wit's. Guinsoo's might be really good, Malady is probably not, Nashor's actually would be decent for her. You could also be an aura slut and go Zeke's.

Edit: CDR tanky TF build? TF + Shurelya/Zeke/FH/Athene/Soul Shroud (lol). Her base damage is kind of middling to low, though. But a tanky support top lane is interesting.
It's your boy Guzma!
Prev 1 169 170 171 172 173 189 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
16:00
Replay Cast for D/A/CH
TaKeTV 389
IPSL
16:00
3rd Place
Dragon vs Hawk
LiquipediaDiscussion
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
15:55
FSL TeamLeaguePlayoffs STvsASH
Freeedom27
Liquipedia
Epic.LAN
13:00
Epic.LAN 48 Playoff Stage
epiclan69
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko743
CosmosSc2 70
RushiSC 47
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4172
Rain 1990
Britney 1201
Shuttle 902
Horang2 394
Mini 355
Stork 278
ggaemo 248
BeSt 193
Movie 104
[ Show more ]
Sharp 87
Barracks 38
Killer 34
ToSsGirL 24
yabsab 21
IntoTheRainbow 19
Shine 18
Rock 18
Hm[arnc] 18
Yoon 12
HiyA 11
ajuk12(nOOB) 7
Dota 2
Gorgc8407
qojqva618
LuMiX1
League of Legends
Doublelift3780
KnowMe39
Counter-Strike
fl0m1465
ScreaM391
edward202
kRYSTAL_62
Heroes of the Storm
MindelVK27
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi869
Grubby510
Beastyqt351
byalli296
DeMusliM257
C9.Mang0132
XaKoH 97
Livibee72
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2209
BasetradeTV205
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• OhrlRock 3
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Airneanach41
• 80smullet 9
• Pr0nogo 4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2553
• TFBlade587
Other Games
• Shiphtur322
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
16h 1m
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
17h 1m
OSC
20h 1m
IPSL
23h 1m
Bonyth vs Ret
WardiTV Weekly
1d 18h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 23h
OSC
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
CrankTV Team League
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S3: W3
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.