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United States47024 Posts
On August 16 2012 09:49 Dark_Chill wrote:
How would Trundle be buffed anyways? I find his problems stem from low ganking power (compared to a lot of the top junglers) and low clear speed, but how would that be changed without changing his kit around?
How does Trundle have low ganking power? What other jungler can start off ganks with a 1000 range non-skillshot slow that also acts as a ministun if used correctly?
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On August 16 2012 10:00 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 09:49 Dark_Chill wrote:
How would Trundle be buffed anyways? I find his problems stem from low ganking power (compared to a lot of the top junglers) and low clear speed, but how would that be changed without changing his kit around? How does Trundle have low ganking power? What other jungler can start off ganks with a 1000 range non-skillshot slow that also acts as a ministun if used correctly?
Cept you can flash it, so it's not a stun at all.
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Break pillar in half instead of having all these abilities that basically just give him unreal base stats.
Passive: Bonus hp/5
Q: Bonus AD
W: Bonus movespeed, attack speed, tenacity
R: Bonus resists, bonus flat hp
with corresponding debuffs.
Tone all that shit way down and make pillar really, really, really good, so it's the focus of his kit. It's his only high skill ability and also his only interesting one. He doesn't need to be better, he needs to have the potential to be abusive like every good champion.
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On August 16 2012 10:03 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 10:00 TheYango wrote:On August 16 2012 09:49 Dark_Chill wrote:
How would Trundle be buffed anyways? I find his problems stem from low ganking power (compared to a lot of the top junglers) and low clear speed, but how would that be changed without changing his kit around? How does Trundle have low ganking power? What other jungler can start off ganks with a 1000 range non-skillshot slow that also acts as a ministun if used correctly? Cept you can flash it, so it's not a stun at all.
not a stun, but if you force a flash with a pillar thats pretty good for a gank
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If you have an opinion about a champion, first ask yourself these questions:
- Did you hear a progamer state the same opinion before you tried the champion out?
- If yes, have you played that champion enough to arrive at the same conclusion?
- If yes, do your games matter? As in are they ranked games and not lv30 blind pick normals?
- If yes, have you tried experimenting with the champion to overcome his perceived drawbacks?
A very high percentage of the opinions on this forum are simply recycled drivel. If you think something, it can eventually be proven wrong or backward, but it will be a worthwhile opinion because YOU tried it and arrived at the conclusion. I highly doubt most people here have actually experienced what they believe to be true.
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On August 16 2012 10:03 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 10:00 TheYango wrote:On August 16 2012 09:49 Dark_Chill wrote:
How would Trundle be buffed anyways? I find his problems stem from low ganking power (compared to a lot of the top junglers) and low clear speed, but how would that be changed without changing his kit around? How does Trundle have low ganking power? What other jungler can start off ganks with a 1000 range non-skillshot slow that also acts as a ministun if used correctly? Cept you can flash it, so it's not a stun at all.
If you place Pillar on a champion the repositioning aspect acts similarly to a stun. As far as I'm aware while the Pillar is shoving a champion to the side most normal actions are impossible.
I'm not a big fan of Trundle, but some of the complaints I'm seeing here are utterly baffling.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 16 2012 10:07 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 10:03 Zdrastochye wrote:On August 16 2012 10:00 TheYango wrote:On August 16 2012 09:49 Dark_Chill wrote:
How would Trundle be buffed anyways? I find his problems stem from low ganking power (compared to a lot of the top junglers) and low clear speed, but how would that be changed without changing his kit around? How does Trundle have low ganking power? What other jungler can start off ganks with a 1000 range non-skillshot slow that also acts as a ministun if used correctly? Cept you can flash it, so it's not a stun at all. If you place Pillar on a champion the repositioning aspect acts similarly to a stun. As far as I'm aware while the Pillar is shoving a champion to the side most normal actions are impossible. I'm not a big fan of Trundle, but some of the complaints I'm seeing here are utterly baffling.
Agreed.
I could make a laundry list of ways you could help Trundle to make him the new OP, but honestly, a bunch of these would have nothing to do with them.
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United States15536 Posts
On August 16 2012 09:49 Vingle wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 09:18 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Ugh. Hey, is Poppy a rough lane for all AD people top, or am I just SUPES BAD with Jayce. I farmed fine, but I couldn't stop her from doing anything... Eventually she just killed other lanes no matter what I did and I would die, but before that... no idea what to do. Can you give some more specific information on what happened? Did you play passive? Did you get camped? Poppy isn't known for her stellar laning, as she can't push or farm, so I'm not sure how she would win against a Jayce.
Well, I was probably playing too passively to really do anything well (being the first time I played Jayce), but I felt like nothing I did really did any damage to her, what with the armor she naturally has. I was just losing on CS even though I felt like I could keep her off, but I probably just didn't attack nearly enough.
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On August 16 2012 09:13 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 08:39 Feartheguru wrote:
Ok, just no. People always say this and guess what? No one plays him. No he is not a situational pick, and no he's not worth picking 4th or 5th. He literally has a pillar and nothing else, his whole kid is pure garbage except one spell. There are always people that argue for underpowered niche champs being situational but TheOddOne's description was right on the money. "Trundle and Sejuani are not situational, they're just garbage". Why should I trust TOO on the subject when he makes an assessment without bothering to learn to play the champion correctly? Not a big surprise that Trundle feels like a trash champion to play when you build him with some garbage Wriggles->gp10->Triforce build. Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 08:39 Feartheguru wrote:
Remember the poke comp.? Cait/Nid/Kog/Janna, if Trundle is situational, isn't this exactly the situation? Guess what? They're rather pick champs like Maokai. Please give me a realistic situation where no champ outshines Trundle and tell me why he's not picked in that situation because I haven't seen trundle in a game or on stream for months.
Because everyone has these trash builds ingrained into their heads and play him incorrectly? It's not exactly uncommon that a strong champion will go undiscovered because people play him incorrectly. Everyone thought Ezzy was the worst AD carry in the game until people learned from Chinese teams and started using W-max builds to crush lanes. As far as I'm concerned, I've only ever seen two competitive players play and build Trundle correctly: Jatt, and Lilballz. And both players were/are wildly successful with Trundle when they choose to play him and pick him into the right comp.
Fine don't trust TOO because he doesn't play trundle, I agree it would make more sense to look at the opinions of top players who do play him like... O wait...
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Baa?21248 Posts
On August 16 2012 10:06 zulu_nation8 wrote:
A very high percentage of the opinions on this forum are simply recycled drivel. If you think something, it can eventually be proven wrong or backward, but it will be a worthwhile opinion because YOU tried it and arrived at the conclusion. I highly doubt most people here have actually experienced what they believe to be true.
so true
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On August 16 2012 10:06 zulu_nation8 wrote:
If you have an opinion about a champion, first ask yourself these questions:
- Did you hear a progamer state the same opinion before you tried the champion out?
- If yes, have you played that champion enough to arrive at the same conclusion?
- If yes, do your games matter? As in are they ranked games and not lv30 blind pick normals?
- If yes, have you tried experimenting with the champion to overcome his perceived drawbacks?
A very high percentage of the opinions on this forum are simply recycled drivel. If you think something, it can eventually be proven wrong or backward, but it will be a worthwhile opinion because YOU tried it and arrived at the conclusion. I highly doubt most people here have actually experienced what they believe to be true.
amen brother. before i say i have an opinion on anything i try it myself. this game is far to wide in scope to assume anything, and people that defend their position by saying, 'well pro player x said this,' i mean, i dont even know what to say about that, except its a weak, weak position to take.
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On August 16 2012 10:03 UniversalSnip wrote:
Break pillar in half instead of having all these abilities that basically just give him unreal base stats.
Passive: Bonus hp/5
Q: Bonus AD
W: Bonus movespeed, attack speed, tenacity
R: Bonus resists, bonus flat hp
with corresponding debuffs.
Tone all that shit way down and make pillar really, really, really good, so it's the focus of his kit. It's his only high skill ability and also his only interesting one. He doesn't need to be better, he needs to have the potential to be abusive like every good champion.
You mean... what it already is? Pillar is already the reason behind picking trundle. Unless you want to put damage on it too, or something, I don't see how the utility of the skill could be "buffed" except by maybe increasing the size it.
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Trundle wall is already one of the most terrifying CC's to be hit with.... Though there are quite a few times that I do escape where I'm like "HOW DID I GET THROUGH THAT GAP?!?!?!"
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
I've been trying Trundle a bit maybe a week or 2 ago, I had some problems with him:
Low clear speed
That's it basically, but it doesn't feel like he has much to compensate for it either. His invades can be alright, debuffs OP early game, but they still aren't as good as lee sin or nunu. His ganks don't feel strong enough to justify farming slowly. And though pillar mid and lategame is ridiculous, it just doesn't feel good enough.
Tried it only in ranked 5s though, which are inevitably less competitive than soloQ. Built him CDR, because CDR rocks on all junglers always.
edit: I wouldn't pick him ever if enemy top laner has a jump. it just screws his ganks so bad 
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United States47024 Posts
On August 16 2012 10:29 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 10:03 UniversalSnip wrote:
Break pillar in half instead of having all these abilities that basically just give him unreal base stats.
Passive: Bonus hp/5
Q: Bonus AD
W: Bonus movespeed, attack speed, tenacity
R: Bonus resists, bonus flat hp
with corresponding debuffs.
Tone all that shit way down and make pillar really, really, really good, so it's the focus of his kit. It's his only high skill ability and also his only interesting one. He doesn't need to be better, he needs to have the potential to be abusive like every good champion. You mean... what it already is? Pillar is already the reason behind picking trundle. Unless you want to put damage on it too, or something, I don't see how the utility of the skill could be "buffed" except by maybe increasing the size it.
You could probably reduce the CD at the earlier ranks or something.
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lawl friend just got a penta with Garen.
He seems silly now. Q comes off cd pretty fast.
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On August 16 2012 10:29 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 10:03 UniversalSnip wrote:
Break pillar in half instead of having all these abilities that basically just give him unreal base stats.
Passive: Bonus hp/5
Q: Bonus AD
W: Bonus movespeed, attack speed, tenacity
R: Bonus resists, bonus flat hp
with corresponding debuffs.
Tone all that shit way down and make pillar really, really, really good, so it's the focus of his kit. It's his only high skill ability and also his only interesting one. He doesn't need to be better, he needs to have the potential to be abusive like every good champion. You mean... what it already is? Pillar is already the reason behind picking trundle. Unless you want to put damage on it too, or something, I don't see how the utility of the skill could be "buffed" except by maybe increasing the size it.
it's actually his worst skill, it's just his others have really, really low visibility. I know that's gonna be a pretty controversial opinion but if you look at it empirically from having used it's not typically amazing as far as cc goes. On the other hand have you checked out the stats on Q? They're gross, he has all this nearly invisible stat adjustment that makes him fight like a beast. There's a lot of room for changing those skills and buffing pillar. Pillar could have 100% uptime for example, the slow could persist briefly after contact, it could give a team aura, the slow could spread from person to person, i dunno, it shouldn't be hard to come up with 10 different things you could do to it.
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On August 16 2012 10:16 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 09:13 TheYango wrote:On August 16 2012 08:39 Feartheguru wrote:
Ok, just no. People always say this and guess what? No one plays him. No he is not a situational pick, and no he's not worth picking 4th or 5th. He literally has a pillar and nothing else, his whole kid is pure garbage except one spell. There are always people that argue for underpowered niche champs being situational but TheOddOne's description was right on the money. "Trundle and Sejuani are not situational, they're just garbage". Why should I trust TOO on the subject when he makes an assessment without bothering to learn to play the champion correctly? Not a big surprise that Trundle feels like a trash champion to play when you build him with some garbage Wriggles->gp10->Triforce build. On August 16 2012 08:39 Feartheguru wrote:
Remember the poke comp.? Cait/Nid/Kog/Janna, if Trundle is situational, isn't this exactly the situation? Guess what? They're rather pick champs like Maokai. Please give me a realistic situation where no champ outshines Trundle and tell me why he's not picked in that situation because I haven't seen trundle in a game or on stream for months.
Because everyone has these trash builds ingrained into their heads and play him incorrectly? It's not exactly uncommon that a strong champion will go undiscovered because people play him incorrectly. Everyone thought Ezzy was the worst AD carry in the game until people learned from Chinese teams and started using W-max builds to crush lanes. As far as I'm concerned, I've only ever seen two competitive players play and build Trundle correctly: Jatt, and Lilballz. And both players were/are wildly successful with Trundle when they choose to play him and pick him into the right comp. Fine don't trust TOO because he doesn't play trundle, I agree it would make more sense to look at the opinions of top players who do play him like... O wait...
Too was also very vocal about Ezreal being the worst AD carry in the game. And he said a few months ago that Alistar jungle was terrible.
I wouldn't listen to him regarding balance if I were you.
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sorry for double, i'm on my phone, but i just feel like if a champion has only one unique, cool aspect, that should be where their power is concentrated and that should be where most of the fun of playing them is. Straight up, that is not how trundle is.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 16 2012 10:47 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 10:29 sylverfyre wrote:On August 16 2012 10:03 UniversalSnip wrote:
Break pillar in half instead of having all these abilities that basically just give him unreal base stats.
Passive: Bonus hp/5
Q: Bonus AD
W: Bonus movespeed, attack speed, tenacity
R: Bonus resists, bonus flat hp
with corresponding debuffs.
Tone all that shit way down and make pillar really, really, really good, so it's the focus of his kit. It's his only high skill ability and also his only interesting one. He doesn't need to be better, he needs to have the potential to be abusive like every good champion. You mean... what it already is? Pillar is already the reason behind picking trundle. Unless you want to put damage on it too, or something, I don't see how the utility of the skill could be "buffed" except by maybe increasing the size it. it's actually his worst skill, it's just his others have really, really low visibility. I know that's gonna be a pretty controversial opinion but if you look at it empirically from having used it's not typically amazing as far as cc goes. On the other hand have you checked out the stats on Q? They're gross, he has all this nearly invisible stat adjustment that makes him fight like a beast. There's a lot of room for changing those skills and buffing pillar. Pillar could have 100% uptime for example, the slow could persist briefly after contact, it could give a team aura, the slow could spread from person to person, i dunno, it shouldn't be hard to come up with 10 different things you could do to it.
It already does have 100% uptime at 40% CDR, and the slow already does persist 1.25 seconds after they leave the area. -_-
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EPT
