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On August 02 2012 03:27 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 03:09 Seuss wrote:
I feel like there's something off about the assertion that her teamfighting is bad. Starting fights with everyone on the enemy team slowed and missing a third of their health doesn't strike me as bad for teamfighting. That alone doesn't make her a great teamfighter, but surely it makes her better than mediocre.
I'm not sure how you're getting "missing a third of their health" from a spell that does 25% max HP damage pre-MR at max rank, unless you're somehow getting 350 AP off of jungle farm.Realistically you're probably looking at damage more in the range of 10%-12% max HP throughout the entire game. And a slow is a significantly weaker form of initiation than any harder CC available because a slow cannot stop the vast majority of counter-initiating options in the game. Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 03:09 Seuss wrote:
In general I feel like damage itself is undervalued in teamfights, and Eve isn't lacking in that regard. Damage isn't undervalued on the roles that have the means to reliably put it out consistently (people have no problems eschewing utility in favor of damage on ranged AP/AD because they're ranged). A melee with no consistent CC or jump-like gap closer generally has problems doing that.
Here's the thing, Eve's scaling is fantastic (imo), but she has difficulty laning...
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On August 02 2012 02:27 xes wrote:
MooMooMugi, that AP Janna started Dorans because he wanted to nullify any Kassadin harass, but whiffed a tornado and juked the wrong way (right into Lee Q) when the gank happened
Okay, thx for the story bro
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Am I the only one who feels like the Rumble nerf is going to hurt his already precarious late game?
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On August 02 2012 03:53 Postman wrote:
Am I the only one who feels like the Rumble nerf is going to hurt his already precarious late game?
Who cares, fuck that yordle.
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On August 02 2012 03:53 Postman wrote:
Am I the only one who feels like the Rumble nerf is going to hurt his already precarious late game?
You mean that lategame where he pentakills with his ult? Yeah the nerf is going to hit him pretty hard.
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On August 02 2012 03:54 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 03:53 Postman wrote:
Am I the only one who feels like the Rumble nerf is going to hurt his already precarious late game? Who cares, fuck that yordle.
Fuck yordles in general. And not in the Ego Ignaxio way.
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On August 02 2012 03:58 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 03:53 Postman wrote:
Am I the only one who feels like the Rumble nerf is going to hurt his already precarious late game? You mean that lategame where he pentakills with his ult? Yeah the nerf is going to hit him pretty hard.
Not sure how bad the team standing on Rumble's ult is, but unless they do that (which no competent players will) it's pretty hard to carry around the point when everyone has 3+ items. Heat becomes a nuisance and he's not super strong late game. I've played games recently where I went 9/3 before 30 minutes but ended up getting carried past that point by our Veigar mid.
I haven't played him yet or anything, maybe it's just more important to build him tanky now. Not sure.
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He still has free damage/survival and high AoE, which has historically always been problematic. Once he gets Revolver, he's fucking stupid because not only is your damage free, it heals you!
Seriously, fuck that guy. Heat was always supposed to be a risk/reward system where you balance output, but instead he just hits buttons and murders everything. I played him free week, and it was a rare game where I didn't get a double/triple on accident.
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On August 02 2012 04:04 Celial wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 03:54 Requizen wrote:On August 02 2012 03:53 Postman wrote:
Am I the only one who feels like the Rumble nerf is going to hurt his already precarious late game? Who cares, fuck that yordle. Fuck yordles in general. And not in the Ego Ignaxio way.
oh god lol this is gold
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On August 02 2012 03:50 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 03:27 TheYango wrote:On August 02 2012 03:09 Seuss wrote:
I feel like there's something off about the assertion that her teamfighting is bad. Starting fights with everyone on the enemy team slowed and missing a third of their health doesn't strike me as bad for teamfighting. That alone doesn't make her a great teamfighter, but surely it makes her better than mediocre.
I'm not sure how you're getting "missing a third of their health" from a spell that does 25% max HP damage pre-MR at max rank, unless you're somehow getting 350 AP off of jungle farm.Realistically you're probably looking at damage more in the range of 10%-12% max HP throughout the entire game. And a slow is a significantly weaker form of initiation than any harder CC available because a slow cannot stop the vast majority of counter-initiating options in the game. On August 02 2012 03:09 Seuss wrote:
In general I feel like damage itself is undervalued in teamfights, and Eve isn't lacking in that regard. Damage isn't undervalued on the roles that have the means to reliably put it out consistently (people have no problems eschewing utility in favor of damage on ranged AP/AD because they're ranged). A melee with no consistent CC or jump-like gap closer generally has problems doing that. Here's the thing, Eve's scaling is fantastic (imo), but she has difficulty laning...
Whenever I play eve I always wish that her hate spike had a little bit more range on it, not the line splash but the initial cast range.
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On August 02 2012 03:27 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 03:09 Seuss wrote:
I feel like there's something off about the assertion that her teamfighting is bad. Starting fights with everyone on the enemy team slowed and missing a third of their health doesn't strike me as bad for teamfighting. That alone doesn't make her a great teamfighter, but surely it makes her better than mediocre.
I'm not sure how you're getting "missing a third of their health" from a spell that does 25% max HP damage pre-MR at max rank, unless you're somehow getting 350 AP off of jungle farm. Realistically you're probably looking at damage more in the range of 10%-12% max HP throughout the entire game. And a slow is a significantly weaker form of initiation than any harder CC available because a slow cannot stop the vast majority of counter-initiating options in the game. Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 03:09 Seuss wrote:
In general I feel like damage itself is undervalued in teamfights, and Eve isn't lacking in that regard. Damage isn't undervalued on the roles that have the means to reliably put it out consistently (people have no problems eschewing utility in favor of damage on ranged AP/AD because they're ranged). A melee with no consistent CC or jump-like gap closer generally has problems doing that.
I'll admit that a third was a bit of hyperbole, but even if it's only doing 10-12% max HP on average that's still half a champion's worth of health gone at the start of a fight, coupled with the single most potent shield in the game and a 70% slow. She may not have gap closers, and that generally is a problem for melee, but she is 1) invisible and 2) in possession of a slow-break/speed boost that can reset.
Again, my point isn't that Eve is a secretly OP teamfighter, just that to call her mediocre seems really odd given her kit.
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Rumble was/maybe still is fucking retarded. Heat bonus on top of the base Heatsplitter is ridiculous. He can afford to build tanky ap items and dish out more damage than the typical AP carry that rushes DCAP. He isn't limited by mana, and his ult will fucking equilize the shit out of a teamfight. x_x
I hate rumble. LOL.
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A kit can be weak if the numbers aren't good. Her ult is actually the most balanced thing about her, I think. High damage and defensiveness, but modicum of cooldown and forces her to get close. Her other abilities can use number tweaks on damage/duration/cooldown. For instance, if her Sprint was better (lower CD or longer duration or higher speed), she'd have less issues getting in and out or sticking, but it could also break her ganking prowess.
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On August 02 2012 04:34 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 03:27 TheYango wrote:On August 02 2012 03:09 Seuss wrote:
I feel like there's something off about the assertion that her teamfighting is bad. Starting fights with everyone on the enemy team slowed and missing a third of their health doesn't strike me as bad for teamfighting. That alone doesn't make her a great teamfighter, but surely it makes her better than mediocre.
I'm not sure how you're getting "missing a third of their health" from a spell that does 25% max HP damage pre-MR at max rank, unless you're somehow getting 350 AP off of jungle farm. Realistically you're probably looking at damage more in the range of 10%-12% max HP throughout the entire game. And a slow is a significantly weaker form of initiation than any harder CC available because a slow cannot stop the vast majority of counter-initiating options in the game. On August 02 2012 03:09 Seuss wrote:
In general I feel like damage itself is undervalued in teamfights, and Eve isn't lacking in that regard. Damage isn't undervalued on the roles that have the means to reliably put it out consistently (people have no problems eschewing utility in favor of damage on ranged AP/AD because they're ranged). A melee with no consistent CC or jump-like gap closer generally has problems doing that. I'll admit that a third was a bit of hyperbole, but even if it's only doing 10-12% max HP on average that's still half a champion's worth of health gone at the start of a fight, coupled with the single most potent shield in the game and a 70% slow. She may not have gap closers, and that generally is a problem for melee, but she is 1) invisible and 2) in possession of a slow-break/speed boost that can reset. Again, my point isn't that Eve is a secretly OP teamfighter, just that to call her mediocre seems really odd given her kit.
wut.
math fail? or explanation fail? or do you mean that's 50% total? but that's not exactly how it works...
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I don't understand why they are so dead set on making eve good.
Just fess up the horrible design,delete her from the game and give people their money back.No one will miss her.
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On August 02 2012 04:39 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 04:34 Seuss wrote:On August 02 2012 03:27 TheYango wrote:On August 02 2012 03:09 Seuss wrote:
I feel like there's something off about the assertion that her teamfighting is bad. Starting fights with everyone on the enemy team slowed and missing a third of their health doesn't strike me as bad for teamfighting. That alone doesn't make her a great teamfighter, but surely it makes her better than mediocre.
I'm not sure how you're getting "missing a third of their health" from a spell that does 25% max HP damage pre-MR at max rank, unless you're somehow getting 350 AP off of jungle farm. Realistically you're probably looking at damage more in the range of 10%-12% max HP throughout the entire game. And a slow is a significantly weaker form of initiation than any harder CC available because a slow cannot stop the vast majority of counter-initiating options in the game. On August 02 2012 03:09 Seuss wrote:
In general I feel like damage itself is undervalued in teamfights, and Eve isn't lacking in that regard. Damage isn't undervalued on the roles that have the means to reliably put it out consistently (people have no problems eschewing utility in favor of damage on ranged AP/AD because they're ranged). A melee with no consistent CC or jump-like gap closer generally has problems doing that. I'll admit that a third was a bit of hyperbole, but even if it's only doing 10-12% max HP on average that's still half a champion's worth of health gone at the start of a fight, coupled with the single most potent shield in the game and a 70% slow. She may not have gap closers, and that generally is a problem for melee, but she is 1) invisible and 2) in possession of a slow-break/speed boost that can reset. Again, my point isn't that Eve is a secretly OP teamfighter, just that to call her mediocre seems really odd given her kit. wut. math fail? or explanation fail? or do you mean that's 50% total? but that's not exactly how it works...
You hit 4-5 people at 10-12% hp = 50% of average of one champ's health.
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On August 02 2012 04:39 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 04:34 Seuss wrote:On August 02 2012 03:27 TheYango wrote:On August 02 2012 03:09 Seuss wrote:
I feel like there's something off about the assertion that her teamfighting is bad. Starting fights with everyone on the enemy team slowed and missing a third of their health doesn't strike me as bad for teamfighting. That alone doesn't make her a great teamfighter, but surely it makes her better than mediocre.
I'm not sure how you're getting "missing a third of their health" from a spell that does 25% max HP damage pre-MR at max rank, unless you're somehow getting 350 AP off of jungle farm. Realistically you're probably looking at damage more in the range of 10%-12% max HP throughout the entire game. And a slow is a significantly weaker form of initiation than any harder CC available because a slow cannot stop the vast majority of counter-initiating options in the game. On August 02 2012 03:09 Seuss wrote:
In general I feel like damage itself is undervalued in teamfights, and Eve isn't lacking in that regard. Damage isn't undervalued on the roles that have the means to reliably put it out consistently (people have no problems eschewing utility in favor of damage on ranged AP/AD because they're ranged). A melee with no consistent CC or jump-like gap closer generally has problems doing that. I'll admit that a third was a bit of hyperbole, but even if it's only doing 10-12% max HP on average that's still half a champion's worth of health gone at the start of a fight, coupled with the single most potent shield in the game and a 70% slow. She may not have gap closers, and that generally is a problem for melee, but she is 1) invisible and 2) in possession of a slow-break/speed boost that can reset. Again, my point isn't that Eve is a secretly OP teamfighter, just that to call her mediocre seems really odd given her kit. wut. math fail? or explanation fail? or do you mean that's 50% total? but that's not exactly how it works...
I'm sure that's what he meant, but this also assumes you can hit all 5 champions with the ult, the aoe isn't exactly huge.
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50% total, I guess the explanation was a little vague. That may not be exactly how it works, but the point of saying that was to illustrate that even without AP or penetration you're doing a lot of damage.
The AoE is actually fairly big. It's only slightly smaller than Amumu's ultimate, and can be cast from 800 range.
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my name's cass AND I AIN'T GOT NO LEGS
well my name's ryze, AND I AIN'T GOT NO ARMS
and my name's orangekaiser AND ALL I'VE GOT IS ARMS
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United States47024 Posts
On August 02 2012 04:43 mordek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 04:39 Ryuu314 wrote:On August 02 2012 04:34 Seuss wrote:On August 02 2012 03:27 TheYango wrote:On August 02 2012 03:09 Seuss wrote:
I feel like there's something off about the assertion that her teamfighting is bad. Starting fights with everyone on the enemy team slowed and missing a third of their health doesn't strike me as bad for teamfighting. That alone doesn't make her a great teamfighter, but surely it makes her better than mediocre.
I'm not sure how you're getting "missing a third of their health" from a spell that does 25% max HP damage pre-MR at max rank, unless you're somehow getting 350 AP off of jungle farm. Realistically you're probably looking at damage more in the range of 10%-12% max HP throughout the entire game. And a slow is a significantly weaker form of initiation than any harder CC available because a slow cannot stop the vast majority of counter-initiating options in the game. On August 02 2012 03:09 Seuss wrote:
In general I feel like damage itself is undervalued in teamfights, and Eve isn't lacking in that regard. Damage isn't undervalued on the roles that have the means to reliably put it out consistently (people have no problems eschewing utility in favor of damage on ranged AP/AD because they're ranged). A melee with no consistent CC or jump-like gap closer generally has problems doing that. I'll admit that a third was a bit of hyperbole, but even if it's only doing 10-12% max HP on average that's still half a champion's worth of health gone at the start of a fight, coupled with the single most potent shield in the game and a 70% slow. She may not have gap closers, and that generally is a problem for melee, but she is 1) invisible and 2) in possession of a slow-break/speed boost that can reset. Again, my point isn't that Eve is a secretly OP teamfighter, just that to call her mediocre seems really odd given her kit. wut. math fail? or explanation fail? or do you mean that's 50% total? but that's not exactly how it works... You hit 4-5 people at 10-12% hp = 50% of average of one champ's health.
Taking 10% off everyone is significantly less useful than taking 50% off one person, otherwise AoE skills wouldn't all be balanced around doing comparable damage to equivalent single-target spells.
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EPT
