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United States47024 Posts
On August 11 2012 00:56 wei2coolman wrote:
ESSENTIALLY IN SC2 terms:
Fast expand or Early timing attack.
That's a bad comparison. Because of how you can delay knowledge of a fast expand in SC (either by blocking scouting, or by just pure luck), you can drastically reduce the timing window in which you can be punished (hell, on some maps in BW, you can miss the timing to punish a 12Nex or 14CC just by scouting the wrong direction first). The timing window in which HoG is weaker than immediate stats is an order of magnitude larger than the time which you can deny that information.
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United States37500 Posts
Whyyyyy GP10 discussions still?
Such a boring topic to read about this morning.
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On August 11 2012 01:08 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 00:00 gtrsrs wrote:On August 10 2012 23:59 sylverfyre wrote:
Man, if you think that Diana has such trivial mana costs they might as well not be there, you haven't played her much. Her shield is pretty costly, and her QR are moderately cheap, but designed to be used often - I'd put her mana reliance on par with Skarner. Agree about Darius and Draven though -.-; i've played her a ton and never run out of mana x_x her shield might have a realistic mana cost, but i don't use it a ton. her other 3 skills are just like zzzzfree Her Q actually drains mana faster than Skarner Q early on. With my build the mana regen on Chalice and mana pool from Glacial are pretty important when ganking/teamfighting because it's very easy to run out of mana spamming Q+W+R. The greater issue of mana regen is extremely tricky. Though I tend to agree that Riot's direction with this is bland, it's difficult to appreciate just how complicated the problem is. First and foremost, current mana regen itemization is fairly horrible. Because of LoL's mechanics and practical reality it is almost always better to invest in more damage than to invest in mana regen. It is telling that despite the potential for Chalice to yield a whopping 35.8 mp5 from a single item (approximately 2000g worth of stats), it was very rarely purchased before it was a component of a damage item. Mana regen is simply too costly for too little benefit. Second, mana regen itemization is utterly terrible. A bruiser or AD looking for mana regen is limited to Manamune, Philo/Reverie, Soul Shroud, and Tiama; two support items, a troll item, and one item actually tailored to the needs of an AD. In short, if you aren't an AP carry or support you're hosed when it comes to mana regen.
I really liked what genja did on ashe in some tourney games, getting an early chalice for the mres vs the enemy karthus and the ability to keep poking with her W. But yeah most ad's tend to get mp5 from runes and masteries, not from items.
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So this is the new HUD on the PBE: http://i.imgur.com/ZckQb.jpg
(notice the replay button above the minimap in the bottom right)
I think this HUD looks a little weird to be honest, but it's probably still being polished.
Prediction: season 3 update brings replays and this new UI along with whatever other changes they have planned.
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United States37500 Posts
I understand that Riot is trying hard to update everything, from the HUD, to champion kits. But gawd damn, those portraits seem to be getting worse. Dat Cho, I mean srsly, wtf.
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Looks better (if isolated), but it doesn't fit the visual artstyle of the game.
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Seriously kayle buff? I have a current 60% win ratio over my entire career as her and probably closer to 65/70 over the last 20 games. Kayle is fine. As is teemo in top lane. I hope this doesn't get her nerfed. They do well in the bruiser top meta.
To break this down, .4 means that every point of AP is equal to .4 AD as long as E is on. Except the AP splashes and deals magic damage which is better than physical damage. The AP does not scale off crit damage or crit strike, or armor pen which kayles build. But with something like triforce kayle will now deal 6 more magic splash damage on each attack. Maybe a gain of 200 gold. Nashors is still bad. Rageblade would also stack more damage.
Overall if kayle want's single target magic damage with some tankiness she can go on hit.
If she wants squishy aoe magic damage she should go AP/hybrid.
If she wants to scale well in terms of physical damage she should still go AD. The splash damage still scales well off AD.
If she wants to support her team of 3/4 autoattackers she can still go bruisery and aura.
1 AD is ~ 2 AP in gold but deathcap makes AP slightly better but by the time deathcap is around crit scaling should have taken place. I still don't think AP is the way to build kayle.
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i feel liek the minority but...I actually like 90% of the new arts D:
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On August 11 2012 01:08 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 01:01 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Currently I think Phage is superior to HoG in almost every situation, I just don't see the reason in getting HoG anymore. Considering cost, and the champion pool that uses phage~, Don't think it's all that comparable, thought there are definitely some champions this applies to.
Well for the price of HoG you can almost buy both components of Phage (+115g for Long Sword)
Then, for a very reasonable upgrade price (425g) you gain:
45 Health
8 Damage
Your basic attacks have a 25% chance to slow your target's Movement Speed by 30% for 2.5 seconds.
Also, I feel that unless you're still just mindlessly doing double/triple GP10 the champion pool that can use Phage doesn't differ much from the pool that gets HoG
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On August 11 2012 01:21 Ryuu314 wrote:
i feel liek the minority but...I actually like 90% of the new arts D:
Same,the skins especially have gotten so much better.
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On August 11 2012 01:19 NeoIllusions wrote:
I understand that Riot is trying hard to update everything, from the HUD, to champion kits. But gawd damn, those portraits seem to be getting worse. Dat Cho, I mean srsly, wtf.
Yeah uhh.. >.> http://lolwp.com/wp-content/uploads/Chogath_NightmareSkin_Ch.jpg
the problem is they're just using the chinese arts because they feel those are more "current" ?
I don't know. Some of the chinese art is awesome (default irelia skin, frosted ezreal) but lately they've just been incorporating a lot of bad ones :|
On August 11 2012 01:20 wei2coolman wrote:
Looks better (if isolated), but it doesn't fit the visual artstyle of the game.
yeah, and that's because it's chinese. Honestly they need to leave all the US client ones alone and just re-develop them as their artists have time for it
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On August 11 2012 01:21 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 01:08 wei2coolman wrote:On August 11 2012 01:01 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Currently I think Phage is superior to HoG in almost every situation, I just don't see the reason in getting HoG anymore. Considering cost, and the champion pool that uses phage~, Don't think it's all that comparable, thought there are definitely some champions this applies to. Well for the price of HoG you can almost buy both components of Phage (+115g for Long Sword) Then, for a very reasonable upgrade price (425g) you gain: 45 Health 8 Damage Your basic attacks have a 25% chance to slow your target's Movement Speed by 30% for 2.5 seconds. Also, I feel that unless you're still just mindlessly doing double/triple GP10 the champion pool that can use Phage doesn't differ much from the pool that gets HoG
I said hog worth getting if you can get it early on~
Yeah, i share the same sentiment in terms of getting other health items most of the time, but if you can get hog early enough that it will pay itself off later game, it is totally worth it.
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On August 11 2012 01:00 TheKefka wrote:
What I do nowadays is get philo and anal beads and never buy a health pot again other than at the start of the game.
Fuck hog.That's on udyr at least.
anal beads, you wot m8?
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On August 11 2012 01:26 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 01:00 TheKefka wrote:
What I do nowadays is get philo and anal beads and never buy a health pot again other than at the start of the game.
Fuck hog.That's on udyr at least. anal beads, you wot m8?
Ye the thing that builds into wardens lol.I always forget the name so I call it anal beads.
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On August 11 2012 01:19 NeoIllusions wrote:
I understand that Riot is trying hard to update everything, from the HUD, to champion kits. But gawd damn, those portraits seem to be getting worse. Dat Cho, I mean srsly, wtf.
Cho and Leona portraits are Chinese art, been around for a while. Probably just getting switched over to US servers too.
Sorry for starting a shitstorm, I didn't think it would dissolve into a full out gp10 discussion, I was just talking about Diana in particular. I think Kage is going to be a skip for me nowadays, though, unless I really feel I need DFG for some reason.
On August 11 2012 00:32 gtrsrs wrote:here's what i've seen from diana + Show Spoiler +if you're jungling, you're an AS-based champion, not an AP champion. that means wit's end rush/early, and tanky. it also means you don't spam skills on camps (i use Q or W once, depending on which benefits me more -> W for golem camps, Q for smaller camps) because you tear them apart with your passive instead
if you're laning, you're a diving mage that can poke. this means you poke with your Q (no mana cost) until you all-in (which does deplete your mana pool, but for a kill IT IS WORTH IT). in this scenario you build AP and sometimes mana (in the form of glacial).
i definitely don't think the QR to camps is worth it in the jungle, considering you will be building less AP anyway. if you have blue though, no holds barred, i spam everything on every camp.
philo is a good item on her too, as are d-rings. i get philo every game. that makes you able to spam a bit more than you already could. i wouldn't get sheen ever on her unless i was hella fed from the jungle.
still building philo, wit's, aegis, FH, abyssal from the jungle with AS runes/spec
and philo rylai abyssal aegis deathcap in lane with mpen/ap runes/spec
and i agree with yango
now that you can see how much gold you're (not) earning with gp10 items, i never build more than philo on anyone unless i get them obscenely early (like, firstblood at 4 minutes and i back with 1500g). simply not worth it considering how bad they all are in terms of cost-effectiveness (philo excluded ofc)
We did a bit of a "tanky vs bursty" jungle Diana discussion yesterday. I still think full tanky (i.e. Udyr style Wit's/Aegis/etc) is inferior to AP tanky (Grail/Abyssal/FH/what have you), but AS builds really do just tear through the jungle. I'd consider something like Nashor's if I was doing AS build.
Philo doesn't seem good on her. If you're spamming, the mp5 isn't helping. If you're not, it's unnecessary. And the hp5 isn't really needed, since you kill things so fast that it doesn't matter, and use W for tougher camps. DRings are on my "to consider" list, Sheen is good burst but not as good as some other AP items overall I think.
Like I said, tanky AP worked for me yesterday (Grail rush in one game, Abyssal in the other, Glacial/FH later in both). I don't think I could justify building her Wit's/Aegis/FH though, if she's pure tank, what is she doing in fights other than a moderate amount of damage and Moonfall? Going that build path makes me feel like I'd be better off on Skarner of Udyr, but that could just be me.
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Is that hud even real? Looks like a skin dragged over the normal game(notice the double spell icons etc)
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On August 11 2012 01:25 Perplex wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 01:19 NeoIllusions wrote:
I understand that Riot is trying hard to update everything, from the HUD, to champion kits. But gawd damn, those portraits seem to be getting worse. Dat Cho, I mean srsly, wtf. Yeah uhh.. >.> http://lolwp.com/wp-content/uploads/Chogath_NightmareSkin_Ch.jpgthe problem is they're just using the chinese arts because they feel those are more "current" ? I don't know. Some of the chinese art is awesome (default irelia skin, frosted ezreal) but lately they've just been incorporating a lot of bad ones :| Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 01:20 wei2coolman wrote:
Looks better (if isolated), but it doesn't fit the visual artstyle of the game. yeah, and that's because it's chinese. Honestly they need to leave all the US client ones alone and just re-develop them as their artists have time for it
I think the default Chogath one now is fine, the nightmare chogath art looks 100000x better than the current default one though. but the default chinese cho looks shitty as fuck
On August 11 2012 00:43 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 00:39 wei2coolman wrote:
Hog, cost inefficient upon purchase, yes. But if you got the early gold, need health, is there a better choice? Only takes 5min for it to pay for its inefficiencies, and then, another 5 min for it to pay itself completely off. that's not true though buy a HoG, watch in game as it counts how much gold you've earned it takes like 28 minutes for it to get to 825 gold definitely definitely not worth it
should we not buy any gp5 then, because they all take the same amount of time to pay for their selves(except avarice and kages i think, but only slightly lower)
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I like the Chinese arts and it's not cause I'm asian lol. Iunno, I just feel that the new arts are more serious and more imposing whereas the old arts tended to look a bit cartoon-y. For me, I come from many years of playing DotA/HoN before switching to LoL so maybe I'm just biased towards the srs bsn type art.
I remember reading somewhere that Riot is switching to the Chinese arts cause they're more professional while some of the antiquated arts were haphazardly thrown together way back when and look more unprofessional.
On August 11 2012 01:36 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 00:43 gtrsrs wrote:On August 11 2012 00:39 wei2coolman wrote:
Hog, cost inefficient upon purchase, yes. But if you got the early gold, need health, is there a better choice? Only takes 5min for it to pay for its inefficiencies, and then, another 5 min for it to pay itself completely off. that's not true though buy a HoG, watch in game as it counts how much gold you've earned it takes like 28 minutes for it to get to 825 gold definitely definitely not worth it should we not buy any gp5 then, because they all take the same amount of time to pay for their selves(except avarice and kages i think, but only slightly lower)
Philo's a bit of a unique case though. Philo's actually cost-effective the moment you buy it; although that doesn't say much since regen stats are typically badly itemized/priced in LoL in the first place.
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On August 11 2012 01:16 Perplex wrote:So this is the new HUD on the PBE: http://i.imgur.com/ZckQb.jpg(notice the replay button above the minimap in the bottom right) I think this HUD looks a little weird to be honest, but it's probably still being polished. Prediction: season 3 update brings replays and this new UI along with whatever other changes they have planned.
If that HUD is real it's definitely still being polished. Gangplank's buffs are literally on top of his skills. In addition there are some weird bars behind the health and mana bars, some artifacts below skills and summoner spells, and the replay icon doesn't mesh with the rest of the nearby buttons.
On August 11 2012 01:33 JackDino wrote:
Is that hud even real? Looks like a skin dragged over the normal game(notice the double spell icons etc)
Those are his buffs, but yeah it looks really awkward.
That also wasn't what was on the PBE at ~12-2AM last night when I was messing around with Rengar. If it's there now they did another patch or something.
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On August 11 2012 01:45 Ryuu314 wrote:I like the Chinese arts and it's not cause I'm asian lol. Iunno, I just feel that the new arts are more serious and more imposing whereas the old arts tended to look a bit cartoon-y. For me, I come from many years of playing DotA/HoN before switching to LoL so maybe I'm just biased towards the srs bsn type art. I remember reading somewhere that Riot is switching to the Chinese arts cause they're more professional while some of the antiquated arts were haphazardly thrown together way back when and look more unprofessional. Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 01:36 arb wrote:On August 11 2012 00:43 gtrsrs wrote:On August 11 2012 00:39 wei2coolman wrote:
Hog, cost inefficient upon purchase, yes. But if you got the early gold, need health, is there a better choice? Only takes 5min for it to pay for its inefficiencies, and then, another 5 min for it to pay itself completely off. that's not true though buy a HoG, watch in game as it counts how much gold you've earned it takes like 28 minutes for it to get to 825 gold definitely definitely not worth it should we not buy any gp5 then, because they all take the same amount of time to pay for their selves(except avarice and kages i think, but only slightly lower) Philo's a bit of a unique case though. Philo's actually cost-effective the moment you buy it; although that doesn't say much since regen stats are typically badly itemized/priced in LoL in the first place.
Some of the chinese arts are really good, see : ezreal then you get some really bad ones like the default chogath one. but for the most part i prefer the chinese art style
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EPT
