EPT[Patch 1.0.0.144: Diana] General Discussion - Page 123
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On August 10 2012 23:55 TheKefka wrote: Why not give everyone true damage spells while were at it hue. and a spell that kills the entire enemy team instantly!11!1!! | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On August 10 2012 23:56 arb wrote: and a spell that kills the entire enemy team instantly!11!1!! I'm pretty sure something like that exists in dota,I would not be surprised at least. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On August 10 2012 23:59 sylverfyre wrote: Man, if you think that Diana has such trivial mana costs they might as well not be there, you haven't played her much. Her shield is pretty costly, and her QR are moderately cheap, but designed to be used often - I'd put her mana reliance on par with Skarner. Agree about Darius and Draven though -.-; i've played her a ton and never run out of mana x_x her shield might have a realistic mana cost, but i don't use it a ton. her other 3 skills are just like zzzzfree | ||
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Perplex
United States1693 Posts
On August 10 2012 23:52 gtrsrs wrote: they should just do away with mana at this point with so many manaless champions (including diana, darius, draven, all new releases have such trivial mana costs they might as well not be there) it just really gimps mana-using champions if you want some champs to be bullshit why not just make them all bullshit /dotaapproach If we make every champion op, none of them are op! | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On August 11 2012 00:05 Perplex wrote: If we make every champion op, none of them are op! Except Lee Sin. That guy always OP. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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Arekan
United States248 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
For instance, I tried a game of going boots3 -> Kage -> Fiendish -> Grail. While I felt amazingly strong once I got an early Grail (we still lost, can't stop bot from feeding Graves apparently), I thought that I could have got it a lot earlier and taken advantage of it if I didn't dump 765g into Kage, waiting for it to pay off later on. I think this has to do with me not quite fully understanding the cost effectiveness of Kage on her as a standalone item. It, of course, increases all of her abilities save E, but I still felt that I'd have been much more dangerous in the early/mid game by skipping it and getting actual items faster. It's obviously a no-brainer when you can't gank (all lanes pushed, ungankable lanes like Lee/WotA Vlad/Kass/etc) and need to just rely on it pushing you into the late game, but in a normal game where you're actually fighting and engaging, would it be worth skipping and going for an actual item? | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
Run around and yell "IM RICH MANG". | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 11 2012 00:12 Requizen wrote: Speaking of Diana, would anyone like to open a discussion with me about Kage's on her? I've just been kind of getting it on the principle of "I'm jungling, I need a gp10 to be effective later on". However, I feel like a lot of her power lies in her mid game, and while 25 AP is nothing to scoff at on her, I think getting Kage is delaying her power timing. What kind of basis is there for that principle at all? Even if you sit on a gp10 item for 20 minutes, it only generates 600 gold. Accounting for the inherent cost-ineffectiveness of gp10 items, that's only going to be ~300 or 400 surplus over baseline items. It's significant, but a cloth armor's worth of gold isn't going to be the difference between being effective and not. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On August 11 2012 00:19 TheYango wrote: What kind of basis is there for that principle at all? Even if you sit on a gp10 item for 20 minutes, it only generates 600 gold. Accounting for the inherent cost-ineffectiveness of gp10 items, that's only going to be ~300 or 400 surplus over baseline items. It's significant, but a cloth armor's worth of gold isn't going to be the difference between being effective and not. 300-400 x 3 items~ = 1200. that's sort of a lot, considering jungles rarely peak above 9k, without um. as far as gp10 goes for junglers this is my rule of thumb. get 1 at least. get 2 if before 12-15min mark. | ||
AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On August 11 2012 00:12 Requizen wrote: Speaking of Diana, would anyone like to open a discussion with me about Kage's on her? I've just been kind of getting it on the principle of "I'm jungling, I need a gp10 to be effective later on". However, I feel like a lot of her power lies in her mid game, and while 25 AP is nothing to scoff at on her, I think getting Kage is delaying her power timing. For instance, I tried a game of going boots3 -> Kage -> Fiendish -> Grail. While I felt amazingly strong once I got an early Grail (we still lost, can't stop bot from feeding Graves apparently), I thought that I could have got it a lot earlier and taken advantage of it if I didn't dump 765g into Kage, waiting for it to pay off later on. I think this has to do with me not quite fully understanding the cost effectiveness of Kage on her as a standalone item. It, of course, increases all of her abilities save E, but I still felt that I'd have been much more dangerous in the early/mid game by skipping it and getting actual items faster. It's obviously a no-brainer when you can't gank (all lanes pushed, ungankable lanes like Lee/WotA Vlad/Kass/etc) and need to just rely on it pushing you into the late game, but in a normal game where you're actually fighting and engaging, would it be worth skipping and going for an actual item? I dunno. I've been getting it because it seems to make sense, and since I feel like sometimes, to be effective with ganks, I have to do a lot of sitting around and waiting. Maybe I'm overestimating (read: almost certainly) how much kages keeps my gold relevant when I'm not actively farming, but it feels good for some reason. What would the alternative be? Straight for Codex then Grail? That does sounds pretty nice. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
if you're jungling, you're an AS-based champion, not an AP champion. that means wit's end rush/early, and tanky. it also means you don't spam skills on camps (i use Q or W once, depending on which benefits me more -> W for golem camps, Q for smaller camps) because you tear them apart with your passive instead if you're laning, you're a diving mage that can poke. this means you poke with your Q (no mana cost) until you all-in (which does deplete your mana pool, but for a kill IT IS WORTH IT). in this scenario you build AP and sometimes mana (in the form of glacial). i definitely don't think the QR to camps is worth it in the jungle, considering you will be building less AP anyway. if you have blue though, no holds barred, i spam everything on every camp. philo is a good item on her too, as are d-rings. i get philo every game. that makes you able to spam a bit more than you already could. i wouldn't get sheen ever on her unless i was hella fed from the jungle. still building philo, wit's, aegis, FH, abyssal from the jungle with AS runes/spec and philo rylai abyssal aegis deathcap in lane with mpen/ap runes/spec and i agree with yango now that you can see how much gold you're (not) earning with gp10 items, i never build more than philo on anyone unless i get them obscenely early (like, firstblood at 4 minutes and i back with 1500g). simply not worth it considering how bad they all are in terms of cost-effectiveness (philo excluded ofc) | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 11 2012 00:29 wei2coolman wrote: 300-400 x 3 items~ = 1200. that's sort of a lot, considering jungles rarely peak above 9k, without um. as far as gp10 goes for junglers this is my rule of thumb. get 1 at least. get 2 if before 12-15min mark. My rule of thumb for gp10 on anyone: - Get Philo if I'm getting Shurelya's - Rest are all handicaps if I want to make the game harder for myself | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On August 11 2012 00:33 TheYango wrote: My rule of thumb for gp10 on anyone: - Get Philo if I'm getting Shurelya's - Rest are all handicaps if I want to make the game harder for myself randuins, real handicap.* *i'm still butthurt about hog nerf. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Last I checked, Randuin's is not a gp10 item. HoG is, but there's no rule that you have to buy HoG first. Warden's is a way stronger item anyway. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On August 11 2012 00:34 TheYango wrote: Last I checked, Randuin's is not a gp10 item. HoG is, but there's no rule that you have to buy HoG first. Warden's is a way stronger item anyway. I don't think you can really compare wardens to hog, especially considering the significant cost difference~ and different powercurve. flat health is much stronger early on, than resistances. | ||
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