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On July 25 2012 12:10 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 11:48 Craton wrote:
If two equally level junglers are nearby to smite and there are multiple people hitting it then you're basically at a timing war to see who can get luckier at predicting the right moment to smite. Either you wait until you see the HP drop low enough and have a longer reaction time, do the same with the HP bar at a bigger margin of error, or you just sort of throw it when it feels right which is between the two. You can do things like lining up a spell with your smite to try and burst it, but even then there's some lag time between the two. Sometimes the thing just spikes from 900 to 30 hp in a 10th of a second. If I remembered to record more often I could actually measure the time you have to smite in some of the tighter attempts. If your team is doing baron, and this is the case, you've taken a massive fucking risk doing baron. Essentially you should have the area warded, so no one is within smite range without your knowledge. If said enemy jungler is there, then it is your job to disengage off of baron to deal with said enemy jungler.
Hardly. Enemy junglers also have ults and flashes. Nocturne especially says hi.
It's hardly a risk to 5v1 a baron, but it doesn't make the enemy smite any less existent.
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Just to quote directly from the wiki, I didn't know how out of line that stuff is myself:
Deals magic damage and applies a debuff which increases magic damage taken by 25% per stack. It stacks up to ten times. This increase in damage is applied to the damage taken before magic resistance, and while functioning in a similar manner to magic resistance reduction, it is not the same thing.
Deals physical damage and applies a non-stacking debuff that reduces attack damage by 50%. This is a major issue for AD-based champions trying to solo him.
Can anyone tell how long that debuff lasts/how often it is applied? Can't find that info o nthe wiki.
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Baron should be easier to kill and the buff should be shittier as well. Imo, wrath of the ancients should either cap at like 5 stacks OR only amplify magic damage by like 15% per stack, while corrosion should decrease AD by like 33% or something. Better yet, they can rework Baron so that he has crazy passives like 50% damage reduction from non-true damage sources; or make the wrath of the ancients debuff to amplify not magic damage, but damage dealt by Baron. Then if Riot feels that there needs to be a downside to fighting Baron, then make Baron do massive crazy damage so that a team that engages Baron while simultaneously teamfighting will be like fighting under an enemy turret.
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United States47024 Posts
The stack cap on Wrath really is only relevant in the Baron solo case. Nobody gets to 10 stacks on a 5-man baron because the stacks get spread around. But 25% magic damage increase is just insanely powerful. Void Staff passive is only ~36% damage increase vs. 200 MR targets and ~43% vs 300 MR targets, so 2-stack Wrath is stronger than giving your enemy's AP a free Void Staff.
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since we dont have a thread for mid lane ill just ask this here.
do you guys think pushing and roaming is the best way to play mid? i usually just stay and farm and only follow the other guy if he roams. i tend to get a cs lead not roaming. there comes a point, especially if the other guy doesnt get kills, where i can just body him out of lane. but increasingly i am seeing my mid opponent roam.
im curious what other ppls thoughts on this are.
sidenote: i only played viktor tonight. chunking ppl for 2/3 of their hitpoints with e is too much fun.
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On July 25 2012 12:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
Baron should be easier to kill and the buff should be shittier as well. Imo, wrath of the ancients should either cap at like 5 stacks OR only amplify magic damage by like 15% per stack, while corrosion should decrease AD by like 33% or something. Better yet, they can rework Baron so that he has crazy passives like 50% damage reduction from non-true damage sources; or make the wrath of the ancients debuff to amplify not magic damage, but damage dealt by Baron. Then if Riot feels that there needs to be a downside to fighting Baron, then make Baron do massive crazy damage so that a team that engages Baron while simultaneously teamfighting will be like fighting under an enemy turret.
Why should baron be weaker?
If you make it easier to kill it can still get stolen. It may not turn a game around but the lack factor is still there.
Yes pro teams do have standoffs at baron, but that's true of most games. There's a lot of posturing before one big fight in starcraft 2. You don't get pro by being inconsistent. You get there by being consistently good. Good enough to win a tournament. If you have one bad game in a tournament you're out.
The point of baron's debuff is to punish people who take too much of a risk and who get caught.
Fighting under baron is already worse than fighting under a turret because of the debuffs. No team does either.
I don't have the same problem pros do though. People always get caught out of position so none of the proposed changes benefit my experience in a good way.
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On July 25 2012 12:52 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 12:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
Baron should be easier to kill and the buff should be shittier as well. Imo, wrath of the ancients should either cap at like 5 stacks OR only amplify magic damage by like 15% per stack, while corrosion should decrease AD by like 33% or something. Better yet, they can rework Baron so that he has crazy passives like 50% damage reduction from non-true damage sources; or make the wrath of the ancients debuff to amplify not magic damage, but damage dealt by Baron. Then if Riot feels that there needs to be a downside to fighting Baron, then make Baron do massive crazy damage so that a team that engages Baron while simultaneously teamfighting will be like fighting under an enemy turret. Why should baron be weaker? If you make it easier to kill it can still get stolen. It may not turn a game around but the lack factor is still there. Yes pro teams do have standoffs at baron, but that's true of most games. There's a lot of posturing before one big fight in starcraft 2. You don't get pro by being inconsistent. You get there by being consistently good. Good enough to win a tournament. If you have one bad game in a tournament you're out.
One of the biggest complaint about SC2 since the beginning was how it culminates in "one big fight", very much unlike lots and lots of SCBW games. Seeing basically nothing happen for 20-30 minutes and then one big clash where one side gets wiped isn't exciting to play or to watch.
As it stands Baron feels like an artificial objective that HAS to be persued without any major alternatives. Add to that the map control issue (easy to gain and to keep if ahead) any you have the mexican standoffs at baron. The general map/objective design of League doesn't force small skirmishes and alternatives, Baron is probably just the biggest culprit.
As it stands there is literally no reason to really leave your lane until 7:20 when the second blue spawns and even if you do the easy ward coverage and no real ways to circumvent wards make it hard even in that case. It's all designed to make passive plays more rewarding than roaming/aggressive plays.
Baron simply reflects that issue in the most obvious way possible but it's a general problem introduced by map design/objective design.
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I think AD players are a dime a dozen and probably the most replaceable role on any team.
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On July 25 2012 12:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
Baron should be easier to kill and the buff should be shittier as well. Imo, wrath of the ancients should either cap at like 5 stacks OR only amplify magic damage by like 15% per stack, while corrosion should decrease AD by like 33% or something. Better yet, they can rework Baron so that he has crazy passives like 50% damage reduction from non-true damage sources; or make the wrath of the ancients debuff to amplify not magic damage, but damage dealt by Baron. Then if Riot feels that there needs to be a downside to fighting Baron, then make Baron do massive crazy damage so that a team that engages Baron while simultaneously teamfighting will be like fighting under an enemy turret.
??
This doesn't solve any existing need in the game.
If anything, Baron is too weak at later points in the game when it can be killed in seconds if you don't have a full 5 hovering nearby.
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who are some good top-tier ones? serious question, i need some people to spectate so i can learn corki more easily
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solo q kings = ezreal graves corki
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Zyra is a bitch to play against. just a really annoying character with the seeds in lane.
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On July 25 2012 13:06 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 12:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
Baron should be easier to kill and the buff should be shittier as well. Imo, wrath of the ancients should either cap at like 5 stacks OR only amplify magic damage by like 15% per stack, while corrosion should decrease AD by like 33% or something. Better yet, they can rework Baron so that he has crazy passives like 50% damage reduction from non-true damage sources; or make the wrath of the ancients debuff to amplify not magic damage, but damage dealt by Baron. Then if Riot feels that there needs to be a downside to fighting Baron, then make Baron do massive crazy damage so that a team that engages Baron while simultaneously teamfighting will be like fighting under an enemy turret. ?? This doesn't solve any existing need in the game. If anything, Baron is too weak at later points in the game when it can be killed in seconds if you don't have a full 5 hovering nearby.
at later points in the game where baron can be killed in seconds isn't the issue. The issue if I'm following the thread right, is the fact that there are periods of no action where both teams are posturing around baron, with neither side able to do anything.
This happens partially because Baron buff is so strong so neither side wants to give it up, partially because the debuffs done by Baron makes any fight extremely disadvantageous to the team that started Baron so neither side wants to force a fight by actually doing baron. By nerfing Baron's debuffs or simply changing Baron's skillset will address the second issue.
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On July 25 2012 13:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:
I think AD players are a dime a dozen and probably the most replaceable role on any team.
I feel like AD players are a case of "good are easy to find, great is tough to find"
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Hello friends. I was wondering if there is a way to view my old LoL replay files? They won't load because they're >year old. Thank you for reading :-)
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On July 25 2012 13:06 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 12:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
Baron should be easier to kill and the buff should be shittier as well. Imo, wrath of the ancients should either cap at like 5 stacks OR only amplify magic damage by like 15% per stack, while corrosion should decrease AD by like 33% or something. Better yet, they can rework Baron so that he has crazy passives like 50% damage reduction from non-true damage sources; or make the wrath of the ancients debuff to amplify not magic damage, but damage dealt by Baron. Then if Riot feels that there needs to be a downside to fighting Baron, then make Baron do massive crazy damage so that a team that engages Baron while simultaneously teamfighting will be like fighting under an enemy turret. ?? This doesn't solve any existing need in the game. If anything, Baron is too weak at later points in the game when it can be killed in seconds if you don't have a full 5 hovering nearby.
Besides the "baron can be done in seconds point" which already got adressed:
Baron debuff != Baron being too easy to kill.
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On July 25 2012 12:46 Vaporized wrote:
since we dont have a thread for mid lane ill just ask this here.
do you guys think pushing and roaming is the best way to play mid? i usually just stay and farm and only follow the other guy if he roams. i tend to get a cs lead not roaming. there comes a point, especially if the other guy doesnt get kills, where i can just body him out of lane. but increasingly i am seeing my mid opponent roam.
im curious what other ppls thoughts on this are.
sidenote: i only played viktor tonight. chunking ppl for 2/3 of their hitpoints with e is too much fun.
It's pretty situational, but I think it's a waste not to do at least some roaming. If there's ever a time when I can push out the lane, I look to make plays. I feel mid lane is to influential of a role to just farm all day. A good roaming mid makes the game a nightmare for the other lanes and can snowball the game early.
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On July 25 2012 13:34 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 13:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:
I think AD players are a dime a dozen and probably the most replaceable role on any team. I feel like AD players are a case of "good are easy to find, great is tough to find"
That's the case for like every role. Except maybe support.
AD players are hard to like, shine too. I mean it's really easy to spot big plays that AP carries and top laners do as those champions are typically play maker champions themselves whereas AD carries by and large cannot make plays (with the notable exception of Ashe/Urgot). Obviously this line of reasoning kind of falters because it's generally the support making the play for the AD carry and the AD carry doing most of the damage but in the case of APs or top laners they can do most of the damage in a skirmish while also initiating it. Making big plays just isn't something that conducive to the role of AD in general as your primary role is to play safe so you can dish out a fuck ton of damage later in the game. As an AD it usually doesn't make sense to take big risks (not saying AD carries don't take any risks, but risks are not ideal for a role as vital as AD carry).
On July 25 2012 12:46 Vaporized wrote:
since we dont have a thread for mid lane ill just ask this here.
do you guys think pushing and roaming is the best way to play mid? i usually just stay and farm and only follow the other guy if he roams. i tend to get a cs lead not roaming. there comes a point, especially if the other guy doesnt get kills, where i can just body him out of lane. but increasingly i am seeing my mid opponent roam.
im curious what other ppls thoughts on this are.
sidenote: i only played viktor tonight. chunking ppl for 2/3 of their hitpoints with e is too much fun.
I roam a lot when I play AP. But then again I also mostly play Ahri, Annie, and Orianna. Those three are, imo, above the pack in terms of gank potential. And in the case of Ori and Ahri are also really good at stealing wraiths but I dunno if you consider that "roaming."
I think that for every level of play that isn't professional level or maybe super high Elo it's probably a good idea to roam every game. Because people are stupid and you can probably get easy kills.
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Watching Scarra's streaming Zyra. Dat peel lolol
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EPT
