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On July 25 2012 18:27 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
It's completely overkill on Cass because you already never run OOM with two rings + your passive...
I disagree. I don't know why everyone claims this, but this is utterly false. People who claim that they do not run OOM with only two drings is because they play conservatively and cast as few spells as possible, in which case you are not playing Cassiopeia with her maximum amount of potential damage. While your HP bar and AP are clearly visible, it's far more subtle when it comes to the damage you failed to do because you had to manage your mana.
At level 9 with level 2 Q (assuming you are maxing E first; otherwise it's even more expensive), you can barely maintain your stacks. Level 2 Q = 45 mana per cast. Say you are at full passive stacks, so 22 mana per cast. Since the passive lasts 5 seconds, theoretically you need to cast once every 5 seconds. so that eats 22.5 mana per 5 seconds... that is, assuming you can time your cast perfectly.
At level 9, Cassiopeia has 13.85+10 + 3.69 + 3 = 30.54 mana per 5. So after the cost of maintaining the stacks, you get 8 mana per 5 left. That's basically less than Cassiopeia's natural mana regen without items/masteries/runes at lvl 1. Good luck not running OOM if you want to use your W/E with 8 mana per 5. Unless you can make sure that you can walk into a fight with full mana (not likely) and the fight finishes in less than 10 seconds, you will run out of mana exclusively from casting Q + E at level 9. The situation is even worse if you are against a pokey comp with some form of sustain (e.g. Soraka) who can trade with you.
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On July 25 2012 19:12 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 18:27 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
It's completely overkill on Cass because you already never run OOM with two rings + your passive... I disagree. I don't know why everyone claims this, but this is utterly false. People who claim that they do not run OOM with only two drings is because they play conservatively and cast as few spells as possible, in which case you are not playing Cassiopeia with her maximum amount of potential damage. While your HP bar and AP are clearly visible, it's far more subtle when it comes to the damage you failed to do because you had to manage your mana. At level 9 with level 2 Q (assuming you are maxing E first; otherwise it's even more expensive), you can barely maintain your stacks. Level 2 Q = 45 mana per cast. Say you are at full passive stacks, so 22 mana per cast. Since the passive lasts 5 seconds, theoretically you need to cast once every 5 seconds. so that eats 22.5 mana per 5 seconds... that is, assuming you can time your cast perfectly. At level 9, Cassiopeia has 13.85+10 + 3.69 + 3 = 30.54 mana per 5. So after the cost of maintaining the stacks, you get 8 mana per 5 left. That's basically less than Cassiopeia's natural mana regen without items/masteries/runes at lvl 1. Good luck not running OOM if you want to use your W/E with 8 mana per 5. Unless you can make sure that you can walk into a fight with full mana (not likely) and the fight finishes in less than 10 seconds, you will run out of mana exclusively from casting Q + E at level 9. The situation is even worse if you are against a pokey comp with some form of sustain (e.g. Soraka) who can trade with you.
My opinion is that cass benefits more from a mana pool than mana regen (1-2 dorans -> RoA). When you're in a fight, you'll be putting out skills and burning mana so fast that mana regen actually won't help too much. You need a mana pool to draw out of rather than a mana puddle+trickle. She can run oom really quickly even with blue in a teamfight but with a RoA, I haven't really experienced the problem. Once she gets RoA+Rylai's cass becomes one of the tankiest mages, does absurd sustained dps and can sustain it for a long time.
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Baa?21242 Posts
RoA is awful too on Cass idk where all these builds are coming from lol.
Manage your mana don't spam everything everytime it's off cooldown only use spells to threaten kills/zone off cs, in a teamfight you should have blue anyways.
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I always liked 2 rings into a hat myself on snake. Just run around farming everything. Push wave>w+e over wraith wall to take blue wraith then go farm yours. Farm dogs too if you can. Her farming ability just adds to the amount of pros to her.
So I'm thinking RoA first on Zyra. She does good damage early, but she seems to have trouble late game, at least according to Scarra. He also said her mana pool is pretty high, so I'm thinking mana problems aren't much of an issue with her. That ult delay though... 2 seconds too stronk. It would synergize pretty well with an Amumu/Malph ult though.
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Cass does not need a mana pool. Her passive and blue is more than enough. No one maxes e on her either. At least afaik
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So, has anyone played a lot with Twitch after the patch. Had my first game with him yesterday and cannot say i am really happy with it. The q-change makes your laning a lot better then before, on the other hand, your e makes absolutely no damage. Of course, it does not comsume the passive stacks either, feels kinda meh anyway. Not worth maxing in my opinion. W is more of an utility spell, altough the two additional poison stacks provide some damage, but you get them with level 1 anyway. So, QWEQ R>Q>E>W ? Played versus a bad trist/sona matchup that never poked against me, so the small range of the rat didn't keep my from csing that much, so, no idea if he got more viable just because his sleight range buff. Was able to kill trist once in midgame once she killed me in 1on1s. So i really cannot say if he is viable at all.
Has he changed from worst laner best lategame teamfighter with crazy ganks to mediorce laner best lategame teamfigter with crap ganks?
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On July 25 2012 19:53 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
RoA is awful too on Cass idk where all these builds are coming from lol.
Manage your mana don't spam everything everytime it's off cooldown only use spells to threaten kills/zone off cs, in a teamfight you should have blue anyways.
I wouldn't say it's awful, it's unnecessary though.
On July 25 2012 20:30 Bladeorade wrote:
Cass does not need a mana pool. Her passive and blue is more than enough. No one maxes e on her either. At least afaik
Maxing E gives you more killing power in a straight up fight, but as with Ahri (who would want to max W) you just have to max Q in most situations. Gives you stronger poke and pushing power, people won't let you run up to them and spam E and you can't farm well with maxed E. People always make it sound like the skillorder is set for every game.
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On July 25 2012 20:43 h3r1n6 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 19:53 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
RoA is awful too on Cass idk where all these builds are coming from lol.
Manage your mana don't spam everything everytime it's off cooldown only use spells to threaten kills/zone off cs, in a teamfight you should have blue anyways. I wouldn't say it's awful, it's unnecessary though. Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 20:30 Bladeorade wrote:
Cass does not need a mana pool. Her passive and blue is more than enough. No one maxes e on her either. At least afaik Maxing E gives you more killing power in a straight up fight, but as with Ahri (who would want to max W) you just have to max Q in most situations. Gives you stronger poke and pushing power, people won't let you run up to them and spam E and you can't farm well with maxed E. People always make it sound like the skillorder is set for every game.
if you max E first you will be oom all the time guaranteed
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So a while ago in the previous GD thread I mused about making a tool that would let you switch hotkeys on a per-champion basis (mostly to pick and choose which skills to smart cast)... so I went ahead and coded it up. I also added a simple GUI interface for setting up custom recommended items for champs, making it much easier than going through .ini files and looking up item codes. The tool runs in the system tray and once additional hotkey sets are set up for champions they appear in the menu, letting you swap them in at the click of a button.
Anyone interested in testing can grab it from my site: http://www.void.net.nz/loltool.html. Just stick it anywhere and run, no install required (it does need .Net 4.0 though, there's a link on the page if you need it).
It still needs testing and bugs are likely (feel free to PM me if you find any and I'll get right on fixing them). It's also a little rough around the edges but it should pretty much work. If there's any interest I'll also make a thread just for it in the future. Suggestions for additional features are welcome.
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I guess I didn't understand right... does Zyra's ult damage as the vines grow, or when they snap?
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On July 25 2012 20:51 Alaric wrote:
I guess I didn't understand right... does Zyra's ult damage as the vines grow, or when they snap?
Damage initially, cc when they snap.
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On July 25 2012 20:30 Bladeorade wrote:
Cass does not need a mana pool. Her passive and blue is more than enough. No one maxes e on her either. At least afaik
At least both Oce and Regi max E on her occasionally.
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On July 25 2012 20:14 Cloud9157 wrote:
So I'm thinking RoA first on Zyra. She does good damage early, but she seems to have trouble late game, at least according to Scarra. He also said her mana pool is pretty high, so I'm thinking mana problems aren't much of an issue with her. That ult delay though... 2 seconds too stronk. It would synergize pretty well with an Amumu/Malph ult though.
This is what I was doing last night. Her base damages are pretty good, but she's fragile. I'm going to experiment with Chalice into DCap too.
The damage on her ult is ridiculously awesome, it would be op if the knock up came any sooner.
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so now in my last game, fp didn't turn up at all, didn't ban, randomed a hero all the while blue triangle was at his champion - and the game started loading. wtf is this, riot? how fucking retarded do you have to be to not implement a basic check to make sure ALL 10 PLAYERS ARE READY?
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havent really played her but from what i seen roa would be waste of time idk though
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On July 25 2012 22:11 samthesaluki wrote:
havent really played her but from what i seen roa would be waste of time idk though
Care to elaborate?
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On July 25 2012 22:10 greggy wrote:
so now in my last game, fp didn't turn up at all, didn't ban, randomed a hero all the while blue triangle was at his champion - and the game started loading. wtf is this, riot? how fucking retarded do you have to be to not implement a basic check to make sure ALL 10 PLAYERS ARE READY?
Normaly it doesnt start then. donno why it did in this case.
But i do wish that riot changed ranked draft to boot someone who doesnt actualy select a champion to help reduce the amount of afk
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On July 25 2012 21:44 Gaslo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 20:30 Bladeorade wrote:
Cass does not need a mana pool. Her passive and blue is more than enough. No one maxes e on her either. At least afaik At least both Oce and Regi max E on her occasionally.
Everyone maxes E on cassio, lvl 2 q + lvl 1w is enough clearing power and a maxed out E is what makes her such a terrifying dueler.
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On July 25 2012 22:15 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 22:10 greggy wrote:
so now in my last game, fp didn't turn up at all, didn't ban, randomed a hero all the while blue triangle was at his champion - and the game started loading. wtf is this, riot? how fucking retarded do you have to be to not implement a basic check to make sure ALL 10 PLAYERS ARE READY? Normaly it doesnt start then. donno why it did in this case. But i do wish that riot changed ranked draft to boot someone who doesnt actualy select a champion to help reduce the amount of afk
Whilst it should have been in months ago I remember reading somewhere that they are implementing an afk
checker for ranked.
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Zyra has a ton of range though, even on her AA. I never really found RoA to be necessary on her both because of her range and her lack of mana issues (with 2drings you basically don't have any mana issues). Well, at least when I was playing her on PBE. If it turns out that Zyra does need some defensive item stats I'd rather get Rylai's or Abyssal.
Also, the 2 second delay to knockup on her ult doesn't really mean anything because if you land your E and then follow up with the combo (EWQWR) then they'll always get knocked up without fail.
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EPT
