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I think your concerns are more valid in a well thoughout high level 5's tourney, as far as solo queue goes, I don't really see any major matchups up on bot where I go "hmmm, cait sucks here". she'll always win her lane, if played properly, there's no such thing as an "anti-cait" botlane. the best the enemy can get is "if i go even or close to even, i'll win out in lategame"
The main issue with cait in current meta, is that midgame favors extremely strong burst ad carries, as opposed to consistent damage.
The thing is, most ad players aren't good enough to constantly auto attacking in a teamfight, thus making full auto attacking AD carries a lot less popular than spell casting/burst ones. Doublelifts ability to position/micro his ad carries is shown by his champion pool that is far more micro intensive/ auto attack intensive champions, such as cait/vayne.
It's just a matter of stylistic play choice on your ad carry.
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Er, there are plenty of lanes that beat Cait. Ezreal beats or goes even if he has anywhere near the same amount of skill, Graves should beat her a good amount of the time just by pushing hard, dashing to close the distance, then out-bursting her. She's not unbeatable in lane, by a long shot. She beats most, but she doesn't auto-win lane by any means.
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On August 03 2012 04:27 Requizen wrote:
Er, there are plenty of lanes that beat Cait. Ezreal beats or goes even if he has anywhere near the same amount of skill, Graves should beat her a good amount of the time just by pushing hard, dashing to close the distance, then out-bursting her. She's not unbeatable in lane, by a long shot. She beats most, but she doesn't auto-win lane by any means.
Cait easily shits on a graves lane.... have you seen doublelifts stream a lot of cait games, because of how popular graves was, a few months ago? he was having a field day against it. it was fucking hilarious.
Ezreal can go even because he's a duelist, better in a skirmish, but then late game comes around, and I'd say caits late game > ezreals lategame.
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You can't use Doublelift as an example of how a champion works for most people. He could probably play AD Viktor and go 15-0. I can't really name any other ADs that can nearly play at his level, so it's kind of a silly example.
Late games between Ez and Cait is a toss up. Ez will still do really good burst and has better AoE for teamfights, and has one of the best blinks in the game. Cait has the range, of course, and can siege those late game turrets. Neither are who I'd want on a long-term focused team, though.
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On August 03 2012 04:37 Requizen wrote:
You can't use Doublelift as an example of how a champion works for most people. He could probably play AD Viktor and go 15-0. I can't really name any other ADs that can nearly play at his level, so it's kind of a silly example.
Late games between Ez and Cait is a toss up. Ez will still do really good burst and has better AoE for teamfights, and has one of the best blinks in the game. Cait has the range, of course, and can siege those late game turrets. Neither are who I'd want on a long-term focused team, though.
I would give Ezreal the advantage in any isolated case. However, the way we've been using Cait in TL B games is just as a safe, easy to lane AD. We have been transitioning our poke comp incredibly well into the mid game (excluding games where I derp and play the LET'S ENGAGE ALL THE THINGS game). It becomes a very calculated, controlling comp that is extremely devastating and hilarious when done right. Cait contributes to that comp beautifully.
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Oddly enough I find Cait's mid game her real strength imo, even when i don't win my lane, I still feel my mid game when playing cait is stronger than the enemy ad's mid game. She offers so much control in mid game engages. Her late game is not that great, but it's definitely one of the best when it comes to taking tower after baron~ ,dat tower poke op'd. Her ability to zone while poking at towers are so strong, it can really fuck up enemy teams when they want to hard engage on you (with trap set ups).
BTW I figured out how Riot should buff Caitlyn. Give her the Darius treatment. Make her ulti do True damage, and reset when it gets killign blow. LOL!!!
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On August 03 2012 04:46 wei2coolman wrote:
Oddly enough I find Cait's mid game her real strength imo, even when i don't win my lane, I still feel my mid game when playing cait is stronger than the enemy ad's mid game. She offers so much control in mid game engages. Her late game is not that great, but it's definitely one of the best when it comes to taking tower after baron~ ,dat tower poke op'd. Her ability to zone while poking at towers are so strong, it can really fuck up enemy teams when they want to hard engage on you (with trap set ups).
BTW I figured out how Riot should buff Caitlyn. Give her the Darius treatment. Make her ulti do True damage, and reset when it gets killign blow. LOL!!!
And while in flight, the bullet silently whistles "BALANCE"
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On August 03 2012 04:54 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 04:46 wei2coolman wrote:
Oddly enough I find Cait's mid game her real strength imo, even when i don't win my lane, I still feel my mid game when playing cait is stronger than the enemy ad's mid game. She offers so much control in mid game engages. Her late game is not that great, but it's definitely one of the best when it comes to taking tower after baron~ ,dat tower poke op'd. Her ability to zone while poking at towers are so strong, it can really fuck up enemy teams when they want to hard engage on you (with trap set ups).
BTW I figured out how Riot should buff Caitlyn. Give her the Darius treatment. Make her ulti do True damage, and reset when it gets killign blow. LOL!!! And while in flight, the bullet silently whistles "BALANCE"
Oh man, I could just imagine how fucking mad the community would be if they actually did that. You gotta admit, it'd be pretty fucking awesome, it'd be sorta balanced too, imo, considering the failure rate of her ulti and her channel time.
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On August 03 2012 04:46 wei2coolman wrote:
Oddly enough I find Cait's mid game her real strength imo, even when i don't win my lane, I still feel my mid game when playing cait is stronger than the enemy ad's mid game. She offers so much control in mid game engages. Her late game is not that great, but it's definitely one of the best when it comes to taking tower after baron~ ,dat tower poke op'd. Her ability to zone while poking at towers are so strong, it can really fuck up enemy teams when they want to hard engage on you (with trap set ups).
BTW I figured out how Riot should buff Caitlyn. Give her the Darius treatment. Make her ulti do True damage, and reset when it gets killign blow. LOL!!!
Oh god. You would get a double kill bot lane every time.. so terror.
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implying graves Q + R combo doesn't already do the same thing? 
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On August 03 2012 01:09 jcc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 19:43 arb wrote:
Is going straight BT on graves worth it? Get more AD for Buckshot/Collateral Damage (since its higher than IE) and i feel like he could use the lifesteal since his range isnt that big Early BT is fine, Chaox does it often. Just do it if you're already ahead, I woulnt suggest it if you're behind.
It feels like with his kit, and his pretty short range it would be safer than just straight rushing IE
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I got rolled yesterday by ezreal / sona bot, playing as graves (me) / janna. Granted this ez / sona seemed to have been playing for a long time together, and I just bought Graves that evening.
Any tips on Graves vs ezreal? I was thinking I didn't abuse my W enough, nor did I use my E enough to dodge, but I was wondering if any of you guys could give me some tips.
Edit: Also wanted to add in that I usually play Ashe or Graves. I prefer ashe for all of the control she provides late game, but graves can just snowball out of control against randoms in normal queue.
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Don't do extended trades against Ez. Essentially you should buckshot, then run away, don't try and fight it out for more than 1 auto attack. Ez's W will always win an extended skirmish.
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I got rolled yesterday by ezreal / sona bot, playing as graves (me) / janna. Granted this ez / sona seemed to have been playing for a long time together, and I just bought Graves that evening.
I would say Ezreal Sona is the strongest botlane right now, just insanly good. There is a reason you basically only see Corki vs Ezreal at the moment and that is: Corki can decently lane vs Ezreal because he mainly casts aswell and doesnt get outranged like graves does. Other then that: try to evade fighting at all costs and somehow farm they will kill you in lane. You might try to oneshot Sona but thats about it.
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I have two questions:
1- Why did Ez become so popular recently (besides the pulsefire skin :p)?
2- Any advice on how to lane as Vayne?
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On August 09 2012 08:01 NpG)Explosive wrote:
I have two questions:
1- Why did Ez become so popular recently (besides the pulsefire skin :p)?
2- Any advice on how to lane as Vayne?
1 - Pulsefire skin
2 - Farm up, buy 6 items, ???, win
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1- Why did Ez become so popular recently (besides the pulsefire skin)
People realized that he is a good champion and people started maxing w on him.
2- Any advice on how to lane as Vayne?
lashit/get kills if possible.. not really a question you can answer tbh maybe dont pick her against ezreal? or dont pick her vs nunu. In my opinion the easiest lane as vayne is probably against graves but all lanes are kinda hard. Try to get an advantage somehow if you get that you have won it because you will be able to rush the enemy down when they come back to lane.
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W got its mana cost reduced by 10. R's mana cost was reduced by 50. Then people started going max W and realized, "holy shit Ez can pretty much out trade everyone with this AS debuff!" Combine with the fact that Ez was already one of the safest laners due to his blink and his ability to Q farm from 1100 range...not to mention he has a global ult.
While new skill order is partly to blame for his recent popularity his full rotation of spells costs 60 mana less which is pretty huge too.
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Oh one thing which many people overlook and I forgot to mention every single other AD got nerfed:
Sivir Q + ult nerf
Kogmaw W E R nerf (he was so fun after the intial buffs sadly permabanned in europe )= )
Graves Q W R stats nerf
I believe Corki got some nerfs aswell
Vayne got several nerfs on basestats passive q ult
Urgot recently everything.
Caitlyn a while ago with traps and basestats
Kennen got nearly removed as ad (some still play him though)
Just a few ADs got untouched/barely touched:
Ashe
Tristana (one fix with the e which actually nerfed her quite a bit
Twitch Varus Draven are considered weak right now (some start playing Varus a bit)
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EPT
