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[Role] Ranged AD - Page 10

Forum Index > LoL General
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zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
August 09 2012 00:21 GMT
#181
cait is poke, graves is all in, if you dont get all in'd cait easily > graves.
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
August 09 2012 02:53 GMT
#182
Draven is really strong in and of himself in terms of straight up power, but he's just so punishable.

Varus is weird, though qtpie plays him and they picked him vs. TSM for his great 2v1 lane harass power.

Twitch is too unknown to be considered weak i think.
XenOmega
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada2822 Posts
August 09 2012 03:44 GMT
#183
These traps positions are, for most of them, obvious, but still very interesting to see on theory Ty, I'll try some of them! (but yea, support also needs to be good!)
jcc
Profile Joined January 2011
United States472 Posts
August 09 2012 18:23 GMT
#184
True most of them rather obvious, but non the less helpful. It's more intended for people less familiar with Cait.
http://broukej.cz/lol-signatures/GGod_na_103_4_logo.png
D u o
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada381 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-11 18:40:19
August 11 2012 18:34 GMT
#185
What are some benchmarks for CSing for 10, 15, 20 minutes?

I've always gone by 75 at 10, 100 at 15, 150 at 20 and counted kills as roughly 15cs, are these cs scores good for an ADC, obviously higher is better, I just want to know what is average?

I know that I could do a lot better. This is generally what I do is just passive farm til 75 asap get my double dorans/serk boots and then from there play way more aggressive which is why i only get 25 cs from 10 to 15, while i'm doing trades so bot lane is easier to gank and from 15-20 i'm just going back to heavy farming to get my ie as quickly as possible.
wot?
oscar62
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada417 Posts
August 11 2012 18:43 GMT
#186
draven is not weak just underplayed

everyone playing bot lane is too afraid to stray from graves/ezreal to actually try out real heros
Ente
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany1795 Posts
August 11 2012 19:02 GMT
#187
I've always gone by 75 at 10, 100 at 15, 150 at 20 and counted kills as roughly 15cs, are these cs scores good for an ADC, obviously higher is better, I just want to know what is average?

that seems a bit weird.
75 at 10 mins is decent 100 at 15 is meh 150 at 20 is decent (but less decent then 75 at 10 ) at 15 mins you kinda want more then 100 (100 isnt that bad though) if I have around 100 I always ask myself did I just fail horribly or is there a reason for that (insanly high agression on either side obviously reduces your cs)
and counted kills as roughly 15cs

yeah kills probably are around that if you just look at the cs
lol acc: Entenzwerg EUW http://www.twitch.tv/Entenzwerg league of legends stream (challenger EuW)
D u o
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada381 Posts
August 12 2012 04:29 GMT
#188
Idk I think I get hyper aggressive once i get my duo dorans and serk boots so I can get ie a lot quicker than my opponent, rather than just afk farming. I either have like 100 cs at 15 with 2 or 3 kills or 130-140cs with 0 to 1 kill, but i'm mainly trying to deny at this point.

Idk it might be because of my positioning but I feel even if i get my ie quicker than my opponent, I still dont deal enough damage to the rest of the team or I get focused really hard. [I mainly solo que] So i find that just trying to shut my lane down works a lot better than trying to farm really hard quicker. If that makes sense. i should just be running corki and afk farm til 200 cs. xP
wot?
3 Lions
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States3705 Posts
August 12 2012 05:21 GMT
#189
its not always optimal to start IE first.
with high burst lanes (corki/leona, corki/sona, ez/sona etc) I actually like a Triforce start, and it also depends if you can abuse the other carry's midgame (if they're playing tristana for example).
If I'm ahead of them (early kills, big cs advantage) or if the game is very "low-econ", then I often like to go BT, because this means that you'll have at least BT/zeal by the time they only have IE. There is also a timing when you have BT and they're stuck with a BF sword, and this is a very good timing to abuse.
jcc
Profile Joined January 2011
United States472 Posts
August 12 2012 05:27 GMT
#190
Yeah, I realize it's not optimal to start always IE first, but for the majority of players that have trouble making plays, it is. I'm going to add an update soon on kinda when to open BT, or TF, or IE, or like whatever. But all that is just so tentative, it's hard to put it into writing.
http://broukej.cz/lol-signatures/GGod_na_103_4_logo.png
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17250 Posts
August 13 2012 06:12 GMT
#191
It's amusing because Draven is strong as fuck and needs a nerf but we haven't had a good primetime big tourny for people to hop on the bandwagon.
twitch.tv/cratonz
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-13 06:32:12
August 13 2012 06:27 GMT
#192
Well, to be fair, every time Draven appears in a tourney he almost always loses. He's barely ever picked though and the tip top teams haven't picked him up. Iirc, only Evo and Crs (?) have ever played him in a tourney.

On the other hand, I'm starting to think Ez is overrated if tourney performances are anything to go by. At IPL Faceoff, Ez was picked in 16 games and had a 12.5% winrate (compared to Graves in 17 games with 58.82% winrate) out of 65 games total. At MLG Arena, Ez did better with a 50% winrate, but had a smaller sample size with only 8 games (20% of all games). At ECC Poland, Ez was played in 11 games with a 45.45% winrate out of a total of 41 games. So basically, at the last three major tournaments, Ez has been played in 35 out of 146 games (23.97% of games) but only has a 31.4% winrate.

It's probably important to note that in solo q ez has a winrate of about 53%.
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
August 13 2012 08:01 GMT
#193
On August 13 2012 15:27 Ryuu314 wrote:
Well, to be fair, every time Draven appears in a tourney he almost always loses. He's barely ever picked though and the tip top teams haven't picked him up. Iirc, only Evo and Crs (?) have ever played him in a tourney.

On the other hand, I'm starting to think Ez is overrated if tourney performances are anything to go by. At IPL Faceoff, Ez was picked in 16 games and had a 12.5% winrate (compared to Graves in 17 games with 58.82% winrate) out of 65 games total. At MLG Arena, Ez did better with a 50% winrate, but had a smaller sample size with only 8 games (20% of all games). At ECC Poland, Ez was played in 11 games with a 45.45% winrate out of a total of 41 games. So basically, at the last three major tournaments, Ez has been played in 35 out of 146 games (23.97% of games) but only has a 31.4% winrate.

It's probably important to note that in solo q ez has a winrate of about 53%.


ez and draven both have a very unique playstyle.
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
Deleted User 101379
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
4849 Posts
August 13 2012 08:11 GMT
#194
The more i fall in ELO, the harder it seems to be playing AD carry. At 1300 it was relaxed, the team peeled, you kited and the opponents died, every teamfight was a double or triple kill and every game i ended up with at least a 3:1 K/D ratio. Now i dropped 150 ELO again and now it's not just that your supports often turn the lane into 1v3, in teamfights you have to run from the whole enemy team - not kite, run - while your team chases the enemy AD and which team wins depends on which AD carry gets caught first by the 4 players chasing him. I now end up with less kills than deaths in most games.

How can i deal with that?
Should i just start playing Ezreal?
Schnake
Profile Joined September 2003
Germany2819 Posts
August 13 2012 08:24 GMT
#195
Probably play only AD carries that have mobility and/or escapability like Corki, Ezreal and Graves and tell your team to protect you. I kind of have the same problem and haven't found a solution yet...
"Alán Shore" and "August Terran" @ LoL EUW - liquidparty
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
August 13 2012 09:04 GMT
#196
any suggestion that involves telling the team what to do in soloq is conceptually wrong IMO.
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6213 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-15 09:42:06
August 15 2012 06:46 GMT
#197
http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/gentleman-gustaf/21273-yelling-about-last-whisper

This is a detailed breakdown of itemization path on AD carries.

Taking into account steroids, abilities etc. over the course of a short skirmish.

I'm guessing that it might be a little off for the characters that have skills that interupt autoattacking but it seems rather reasonable.

Essentially, the conclusion is that PDPD vs PDLW is only viable on certain AD carries. It left out the thornmail thing but that's a niche scenario.

edit::

Top post on reddit. One point which I hadn't thought about, the more you attack the greater the chance of procing randuins.


I've done this analysis in detail before, so I will go ahead and verify that you are correct. Double Phantom dancers does infact outdamage Last Whisper over time, even as much as 200 armor or more.
I think some of that is due to the crit value item costs which is strange and RNG. If you do a similar analysis with crit runes, you'll find that crit runes out damage armor penetration/attack damage runes on auto attack.
There's many reasons why you shouldn't get double PD though.
For one, the burst damage on Last Whisper is much higher (which is the fundamental reason why it's better.)
Secondly, you have to be extremely efficient with PD to have higher damage over time. If you do not utilize every second of auto attack, but instead, are kiting/walking and not attacking, that's time that favors Last Whisper. PD is only better over a long period of time and that discourages kiting and possibly wasting milliseconds between auto attacks.
Third, Last Whisper favors burst. The first attack is always instant cast, so that puts Last Whisper Far ahead in the lead from the onset, that's something you need to account when analysing. What this means is, anyone that can reset their auto attack with their spells and attack twice without relying as much on attack speed (Vayne Tumble, Ezreal Q, etc.) means Last Whisper will GREATLY outdamage double PD by a lot.
Fourth, double PD is damage over time and better on lower armored targets/squishies (although still pretty good on higher armored targets too). What that means is, you'll be killing squishier targets in 4 quick auto attacks, you won't get the luxury of attacking them 20+ times for the damage to normalize. That heavily favors burst damage too. For the calculations to make sense, it has to be damage over many successive hits over time.
Fifth, because you're doing less damage per hit, Randuin's Omen and Thornmail more negatively impacts double PD. More hits on Randuin's = more AS/slow procs.
And of course, Sixth, if you have skills that do physical damage and benefits from LW, it's better there as well. Crit and AS are only good on auto attacks.
Double PD is definitely better if you're planning on doing Baron where your damage is over time. In Pvp combat, I think LW is better because burst is more favored over less damage per hits but over time.
rainfable
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States171 Posts
August 15 2012 09:43 GMT
#198
taric+graves and ezreal+leona are pretty strong against my usual janna+draven.. taric+graves just has a butt-ton of armor and amazing burst and it is just a nightmare lol. ez+leo has become easier to deal with but i was looking around for a aupport better suited for draven than janna o-o he has like no escapes so tornado, ult, and slow are really nice but graves is just so difficult >_<
{♔} eri (ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ*:・゚✧   ⋆ my life for aiur!
Ente
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany1795 Posts
August 15 2012 10:28 GMT
#199
Essentially, the conclusion is that PDPD vs PDLW is only viable on certain AD carries. It left out the thornmail thing but that's a niche scenario.

That is correct and basically what im saying

Secondly, you have to be extremely efficient with PD to have higher damage over time. If you do not utilize every second of auto attack, but instead, are kiting/walking and not attacking, that's time that favors Last Whisper. PD is only better over a long period of time and that discourages kiting and possibly wasting milliseconds between auto attacks.

That is highly inaccurate yes obv you need more autoattacks to do dmg but its easier to kite with more ms and as (being able to shoot faster and run faster away is huge)

Third, Last Whisper favors burst. The first attack is always instant cast, so that puts Last Whisper Far ahead in the lead from the onset, that's something you need to account when analysing.

That is a good point and the reason why I go LW on sivir/graves etc

Fifth, because you're doing less damage per hit, Randuin's Omen and Thornmail more negatively impacts double PD. More hits on Randuin's = more AS/slow procs.

honestly I kinda forgot that thats a good point but I dont think that this point is that big that you shouldnt go 2 pd
lol acc: Entenzwerg EUW http://www.twitch.tv/Entenzwerg league of legends stream (challenger EuW)
Mondeezy
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1938 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-15 16:14:50
August 15 2012 16:11 GMT
#200
Hey jcc/TL,

I've got a question for you. My friend is a somewhat new player (he's level 23, but has been playing with my level 30 friends and I since the beginning so he has SOME experience over other players at his level), and he has decided he likes ad carry. The problem is, however, that he never really "carries". He's got the rune page set up, as well as masteries, so I don't think it's a "stat" issue.

His main weaknesses as far as I can tell are last hitting. He tends to have about 100-110 at the 20min mark, and usually says his auto attacks don't do much damage (due to not having items). Also, his positioning in team fights isn't too solid (it has improved, but he still spends more time running away from someone and not putting out too much damage, even with peels).

I guess what I'm trying to ask is -- how do I help him improve his mechanics and his positioning? He's a pretty casual player, but he can be pretty competitive and hard-headed at times. I don't think he would sit in a bot game and practice last hitting minions. Any advice to help him improve?

Thanks in advance!

Edit: One more question -- which AD carries would you recommend to start? I've recommended Trist and Graves as those seem to be his favorites, and he kind of likes Caitlyn but I feel like she is weak other than in lane.
LoL NA: Mondeezy - TL - Riven <3
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