EPT[Patch 1.0.0.139: Spectator Mode] General Discussion - Pag…
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On May 11 2012 12:31 Frolossus wrote: can someone explain what happened to TSM at the nesl? i'm hearing that they broke some kind of rule against streaming the matches and might have been disqualified? Don't know for sure but NESL does have a rule about streaming matches. And TSM, especially Regi, routinely breaks that rule. So I'm gonna guess that NESL got sick of it and d/q'd them for it. | ||
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templar rage
United States2509 Posts
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BlackMagister
United States5834 Posts
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Slaughter
United States20255 Posts
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JokerSan
United States306 Posts
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Shifft
Canada1085 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
She has the huge benefit of easy, good positioning, zoning via traps placed across important locations. Her ultimate isn't JUST for sniping single targets running away. She's second only to kog in terms of tower sieging since traps can just wall off half the path to push out from the tower. She'll fall off after she gets 6 items compared to other ADs, but she will generally reach 6 items quicker and reach every step along the way quicker. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On May 11 2012 13:05 Shifft wrote: I completely understand why TSM would want to FF and not play the tournament, I even agree with the decision, but it's pretty shitty of them to not say anything until the last minute and keep LgN waiting. Why? NESL has had this rule for a long time. Since at least December 2011 (source). Regi has taken issue with this rule before. Basically, they didn't have the rule for a long time because at first they didn't even have an official NESL stream. They implemented the rule so that their stream could get more viewers as players participating in the match were often getting more views than the official match. Which means less ad money for NESL. Which makes it harder to pay the bills. Literally no other team that I know of has made a big deal out of this rule. I dunno why TSM is. It's not like they're allowed to stream their own games at LAN events either. Dunno why it should be different for online tournaments. | ||
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
On May 11 2012 13:27 overt wrote: Why? NESL has had this rule for a long time. Since at least December 2011 (source). Regi has taken issue with this rule before. Basically, they didn't have the rule for a long time because at first they didn't even have an official NESL stream. They implemented the rule so that their stream could get more viewers as players participating in the match were often getting more views than the official match. Which means less ad money for NESL. Which makes it harder to pay the bills. Literally no other team that I know of has made a big deal out of this rule. I dunno why TSM is. It's not like they're allowed to stream their own games at LAN events either. Dunno why it should be different for online tournaments. I'm pretty sure what happened is when TSM was invited to the NESL they asked for an exception - ie, being allowed to stream. And somebody at nesl said that would be okay. Then later they changed their minds and so the arguing started. | ||
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Shifft
Canada1085 Posts
The way I see it NESL provides no value to a team like TSM as even if they won they would barely make more money than just streaming and they actually get less exposure playing the tournament games than just having their streams on and scrimming. | ||
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templar rage
United States2509 Posts
On May 11 2012 13:33 Shifft wrote: If NESL had a higher quality product (read: not shitty casting/observing) then people would watch them over the player streams. I watch Saintvicious solo queue over tuning into actual good tournament games because it's that bad. The way I see it NESL provides no value to a team like TSM as even if they won they would barely make more money than just streaming and they actually get less exposure playing the tournament games than just having their streams on and scrimming. This is pretty much how I feel too. The only thing TSM did wrong here IMO was waiting until it was basically match time to decide to forfeit. I also kind of want to give them the benefit of the doubt on signing up for this tournament in the first place. From what I've heard in the past, being able to stream their matches is very important to them. Given that, I think they would have realized what they did today (that this tournament isn't worth their time in their opinion) before the tournament started, and either negotiated an exception or just not participated. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On May 11 2012 13:30 Treadmill wrote: I'm pretty sure what happened is when TSM was invited to the NESL they asked for an exception - ie, being allowed to stream. And somebody at nesl said that would be okay. Then later they changed their minds and so the arguing started. I could understand TSM being mad then and not wanting to participate. Whoever the admin was that okay'd them to stream should be held accountable though. I have zero problem with organizations telling teams they can't stream their own games. It directly hurts both their ad revenue and their credibility. On May 11 2012 13:33 Shifft wrote: If NESL had a higher quality product (read: not shitty casting/observing) then people would watch them over the player streams. I watch Saintvicious solo queue over tuning into actual good tournament games because it's that bad. Really hard to improve your stream when over half the people aren't watching it. The community could give valid criticisms for NESL to improve upon and they could make their stream a lot nicer if they weren't losing revenue. When Hotshot or Chaox is re-streaming the NESL stream and commentating over it or Regi and saint are streaming the game that's being shown on the NESL stream it devalues the NESL stream when double the people are watching those streams instead. It also essentially robs NESL of ad revenue. It's really hard to improve a stream when you're competing with TSM or CLG for viewers. That's the reason NESL started to implement these rules. Because for nearly a year their stream was being beaten out by others. On May 11 2012 13:33 Shifft wrote: The way I see it NESL provides no value to a team like TSM as even if they won they would barely make more money than just streaming and they actually get less exposure playing the tournament games than just having their streams on and scrimming. I don't like this line of reasoning. If TSM, CLG, and other teams decide that tournaments aren't worth their time then that's cool. But after awhile I think it'll hurt them in the long run. NESL can't give bigger prizes if teams are insistent on streaming their own games. NESL can't give bigger prizes if teams just blow off their tournaments and events. edit: For what it's worth, I fully understand teams blowing off NESL events like Go4LoL where they have to play for like eight hours a day and make a measly $1K. But it's not like NESL only has small events. Some of their tournaments have decent prize pools. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
On May 11 2012 13:30 Treadmill wrote: I'm pretty sure what happened is when TSM was invited to the NESL they asked for an exception - ie, being allowed to stream. And somebody at nesl said that would be okay. Then later they changed their minds and so the arguing started. That's what I thought happened. TSM losses a LOT of money from not streaming vs playing in a tourney. ;o Just most LAN events are big deals with a lot of money and it's essentially advertisement for "we're awesome, you should come watch our streams." ESL is just is really shitty in general. Their site is garbage, their admins are garbage, and they never have any good casters. Then again, few LoL casters are any good atm. :/ | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On May 11 2012 13:46 BlackPaladin wrote: That's what I thought happened. TSM losses a LOT of money from not streaming vs playing in a tourney. ;o Just most LAN events are big deals with a lot of money and it's essentially advertisement for "we're awesome, you should come watch our streams." ESL is just is really shitty in general. Their site is garbage, their admins are garbage, and they never have any good casters. Then again, few LoL casters are any good atm. :/ There are lots of LAN events where teams lose more money than if they just stayed at home and streamed. Or where they pretty much have to finish first or second to make the trip worth it. IEM Gamescom is such an example where both CLG and TSM would've lost money if they didn't place first or second. And honestly they probably would've made more money just staying at home and streaming. CLG's venture to Korea is another example where they needed to place pretty well to make money off the trip, but failed to do so. NESL is a bit different. There are definitely NESL events where they will make more money than if they just sat and streamed. There are some where they wouldn't. Regardless, in both situations, a big incentive isn't just the money but the exposure and the whole, "we won a tournament," bragging rights part. Also, again, really hard to get better casters or improve your stream if no one watches it... | ||
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Craton
United States17294 Posts
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
On May 11 2012 13:50 overt wrote: There are lots of LAN events where teams lose more money than if they just stayed at home and streamed. Or where they pretty much have to finish first or second to make the trip worth it. IEM Gamescom is such an example where both CLG and TSM would've lost money if they didn't place first or second. And honestly they probably would've made more money just staying at home and streaming. CLG's venture to Korea is another example where they needed to place pretty well to make money off the trip, but failed to do so. NESL is a bit different. There are definitely NESL events where they will make more money than if they just sat and streamed. There are some where they wouldn't. Regardless, in both situations, a big incentive isn't just the money but the exposure and the whole, "we won a tournament," bragging rights part. Also, again, really hard to get better casters or improve your stream if no one watches it... That's what I said....................... o.e | ||
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miicah
Australia2470 Posts
On May 11 2012 13:27 overt wrote: Literally no other team that I know of has made a big deal out of this rule. I dunno why TSM is. It's not like they're allowed to stream their own games at LAN events either. Dunno why it should be different for online tournaments. CLG.eu (mainly snoopeh and wickd) have been pretty vocal about not being able to stream tourney games | ||
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Slaughter
United States20255 Posts
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templar rage
United States2509 Posts
On May 11 2012 13:50 overt wrote: There are lots of LAN events where teams lose more money than if they just stayed at home and streamed. Or where they pretty much have to finish first or second to make the trip worth it. IEM Gamescom is such an example where both CLG and TSM would've lost money if they didn't place first or second. And honestly they probably would've made more money just staying at home and streaming. CLG's venture to Korea is another example where they needed to place pretty well to make money off the trip, but failed to do so. NESL is a bit different. There are definitely NESL events where they will make more money than if they just sat and streamed. There are some where they wouldn't. Regardless, in both situations, a big incentive isn't just the money but the exposure and the whole, "we won a tournament," bragging rights part. Also, again, really hard to get better casters or improve your stream if no one watches it... You pretty much got it backwards. You play mid-level stuff like NESL for the money. You play major tournaments like IPL4 for the prestige and the money. There is very little recognition to be had for winning some random online event for a few thousand dollars. So, if the money isn't worth it to you, then why would you waste your time? Edit: I kind of agree with your final point about improving their stream. It is hard to do, but there are plenty of hints out there that you need to do something. If you can't compete with a private stream for viewers, there's obviously a reason for it. Combine that with your own stream chat spamming shit like "who the fuck are these dumbass casters" or "zzzzz casters so bad" and I think you have your problem laid out right in front of you. It's not hard to figure out what your problem is, but it is really hard to fix. Especially the caster bit, because it seems like there are really very few casters in the LoL scene whom the community actually respects. | ||
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