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On April 25 2012 23:00 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 22:58 TheYango wrote:On April 25 2012 22:54 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 25 2012 22:53 TheYango wrote:On April 25 2012 22:39 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I'm glad they're trying to do something with these mid-game dead end items, but I think they're going about it wrong. Personally, I don't see why Riot seems to have some big problem with making midgame dead-end items actually GOOD midgame,rather than just making them build into things and just have them fit the same power curve as every other big item in the game. Because bads bitch when they die. If you think about it, the same thing exists in Starcraft really. People fucking hate rushes and "cheese". They bitch the fuck out when that shit happens. But you've got to draw a line somewhere, seeing as these are players that, if they had their way, would have "NR 20 min" hard-coded into the game. Every item and balance decision Riot makes is about pushing power out of the early game. Its what the jungle changes did. Its what the Red change did. Its what every balance change is. Remember when Malz and Annie had no problem 150-0 someone? Its pretty clear that Riot is TRYING to hard code that into the game. And then wonder why they have a passivity problem in lane.
It´s two (related) issues. Currently the mantra is "win lane -> win game". Passivity in lane isn´t problematic because laning doesn´t matter, the opposite - passivity doesn´t get punished hard enough.
Gameflow doesn´t really favour a midgame "powerspike". Shure you can get stuff like catalyst, chalice and hexdrinker but can you leverage that before "Doransstackers" get their Deathcaps and Bloodthirsters?
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Haunting Guise + Chalice builds are going to be absolutely insane. Cassio with 1-2 DRing + Revolver + Hauting Guise + Chalice/Athene will absolutely molest people. Or Ahri. Drool.
Now if only Haunting Guise builds into something.
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On April 25 2012 22:46 ManyCookies wrote:
The point is that you need to itemize, to commit gold, in order to have large amounts of mana regen, rather than simply grabbing blue. AUC competes with several high-end AP items (Deathcap in damage, WOTA in heal, Abyssal in tanky MR AP, etc.); the opprotunity cost huge.
The problem is that bluepilling is free and unless you're playing against someone who can instantly clear the wave relatively early you won't even lose more than 2-3 creeps worth of gold/exp
So nerfing blue buff just made it so people can't afk roam spamming all their spells without having to base for 15 minutes so they can come back and buy a shiny hat with the 4000 gold they have. Mana is still a joke in this game compared to DotA, and they've still yet to make a serious change to that. I know it's a different game, but I still don't see why they nerfed blue buff if it's still just going to be a non-issue.
EDIT: I have no idea what I was replying to, but after re-reading I'm not sure if it was that post. i r smurt
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On April 26 2012 00:45 noggnoskill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 22:46 ManyCookies wrote:
The point is that you need to itemize, to commit gold, in order to have large amounts of mana regen, rather than simply grabbing blue. AUC competes with several high-end AP items (Deathcap in damage, WOTA in heal, Abyssal in tanky MR AP, etc.); the opprotunity cost huge. The problem is that bluepilling is free and unless you're playing against someone who can instantly clear the wave relatively early you won't even lose more than 2-3 creeps worth of gold/exp So nerfing blue buff just made it so people can't afk roam spamming all their spells without having to base for 15 minutes so they can come back and buy a shiny hat with the 4000 gold they have. Mana is still a joke in this game compared to DotA, and they've still yet to make a serious change to that. I know it's a different game, but I still don't see why they nerfed blue buff if it's still just going to be a non-issue. EDIT: I have no idea what I was replying to, but after re-reading I'm not sure if it was that post. i r smurt
Wait... What?
AFK Roaming? Like wandering to lanes and killing champions?
I feel like the phrase 'Away From Keyboard' has lost all meaning.
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On April 26 2012 00:52 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 00:45 noggnoskill wrote:On April 25 2012 22:46 ManyCookies wrote:
The point is that you need to itemize, to commit gold, in order to have large amounts of mana regen, rather than simply grabbing blue. AUC competes with several high-end AP items (Deathcap in damage, WOTA in heal, Abyssal in tanky MR AP, etc.); the opprotunity cost huge. The problem is that bluepilling is free and unless you're playing against someone who can instantly clear the wave relatively early you won't even lose more than 2-3 creeps worth of gold/exp So nerfing blue buff just made it so people can't afk roam spamming all their spells without having to base for 15 minutes so they can come back and buy a shiny hat with the 4000 gold they have. Mana is still a joke in this game compared to DotA, and they've still yet to make a serious change to that. I know it's a different game, but I still don't see why they nerfed blue buff if it's still just going to be a non-issue. EDIT: I have no idea what I was replying to, but after re-reading I'm not sure if it was that post. i r smurt Wait... What? AFK Roaming? Like wandering to lanes and killing champions? I feel like the phrase 'Away From Keyboard' has lost all meaning.
Sorry, my bad. I'm still playing against bad players so there's little to no thought in getting a kill when I roam. See hero, kill hero, ya know?
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On April 26 2012 00:40 Requizen wrote:
Smash so mad on stream
Wrong thread yo 
+ Show Spoiler +Trying out dem new ones cuz my old iconic smiley getting stolen
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On April 26 2012 01:17 0123456789 wrote:Wrong thread yo + Show Spoiler +Trying out dem new ones cuz my old iconic smiley getting stolen
Whoops, you're right.
Also, this is just kind of a nitpick question: when you bluepill and have like, ~200 gold left after items and wards, is it better to save that for an item next back or pick up some potions?
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I almost always pick up 1 potion. You never know when +150 hp might be needed. 35 gold? Pshh.
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On April 26 2012 01:24 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 01:17 0123456789 wrote:On April 26 2012 00:40 Requizen wrote:
Smash so mad on stream Wrong thread yo + Show Spoiler +Trying out dem new ones cuz my old iconic smiley getting stolen Whoops, you're right. Also, this is just kind of a nitpick question: when you bluepill and have like, ~200 gold left after items and wards, is it better to save that for an item next back or pick up some potions?
It's really dependent on the lane. If you're going to be taking harassment and have no self sustain, I generally pick up 2-3 potions. That extra sustain not only allows you to get more cs, covering the costs, but also keeps map pressure/control.
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I always go for at least 2-3 pots if I can afford it. Generally I'll end up selling them once I don't need them anymore, so it's a bit of wasted gold, but for the cases where it allows me to stay in lane or survive a gank it makes up for it.
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On April 26 2012 00:28 Sandster wrote:
Haunting Guise + Chalice builds are going to be absolutely insane. Cassio with 1-2 DRing + Revolver + Hauting Guise + Chalice/Athene will absolutely molest people. Or Ahri. Drool.
Now if only Haunting Guise builds into something.
What about going giant's belt instead of two doran's? Its only like 2 more minions worth of gold, and gives you faster rylai's/more hp. Chalice + Belt should make you a pain to knock out of lane, but this is just theory crafting. It's like back when everybody was playing sustain top lane, but now its sustain crazy mid lane.
Edit: Chalice, Belt, Revolver
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On April 26 2012 01:24 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 01:17 0123456789 wrote:On April 26 2012 00:40 Requizen wrote:
Smash so mad on stream Wrong thread yo + Show Spoiler +Trying out dem new ones cuz my old iconic smiley getting stolen Whoops, you're right. Also, this is just kind of a nitpick question: when you bluepill and have like, ~200 gold left after items and wards, is it better to save that for an item next back or pick up some potions?
Think about all the times you just barely lose a fight against your laning opponent and they get away with something close to zero health. Add a potion at the very start of that fight.
Potions are cheap and you only lose 11g to sell one back. It's always worth grabbing one.
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United States47024 Posts
Also consider a situation where you get ganked. 1-2 potions can be the difference between being able to blow your cooldowns later to push the wave out before backing, and having to back immediately because your lane opponent would burst you down. Being able to push out that wave before you back means you could lose quite a few less creeps than if you didn't get to; more than the potions themselves are worth.
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On April 26 2012 01:46 TheYango wrote:
Also consider a situation where you get ganked. 1-2 potions can be the difference between being able to blow your cooldowns later to push the wave out before backing, and having to back immediately because your lane opponent would burst you down. Being able to push out that wave before you back means you could lose quite a few less creeps than if you didn't get to; more than the potions themselves are worth.
Have you ever picked up a red elixer early to pop it when ignited for the instant heal then turn on the guy for a kill? I've been flamed for it.
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On a different topic: since double-Wota is most likely not going to be very popular anymore, and with the new chalice actually allowing for two mana-hungry champion to be doable, how do you think the team compositions will be affected?
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I vote Soniv be the next person to repost that link. If it isn't on every single page of this discussion someone might miss it.
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On April 26 2012 02:02 Seuss wrote:
I vote Soniv be the next person to repost that link. If it isn't on every single page of this discussion someone might miss it.
Wtf, how did I miss the previous ones.
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Obviously because it hasn't been posted on every single page since #90, we missed pages 92 and 93.
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EPT
