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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On April 23 2012 08:34 wussleeQ wrote: Both of your statements kind of conflict in consideration of the metas. Yango says this was during ad mid/top and Universal says it was after ad support got popular... Which is true? I say 1v1 mid to decide If I disagree with yango I'm probably wrong | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
On April 23 2012 09:44 Shifft wrote: Oh god if this is true I'll dodge every second game. I definitely didn't lose Elo for when I dc'd in champ select and had to restart my computer. What might have happened is someone else dodged before it realized that I'm dc'd? | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On April 23 2012 09:22 Xevious wrote: won a ranked game after being 12 kills behind in 10 mins, never surrender!! Just thinking...What is the worst scaling lategame team within reasonable approximation of normal meta? Top: Panth/Renekton/Xin/Garen? Mid: Sion/Heimerdinger/Lux AD: Teemo/ezreal/MF? Support: Taric/Lux? Jungle: Xin/Shaco/Maokai? | ||
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petered
United States1817 Posts
On April 23 2012 10:25 sob3k wrote: Just thinking...What is the worst scaling lategame team within reasonable approximation of normal meta? Top: Panth/Renekton/Xin/Garen? Mid: Sion/Heimerdinger/Lux AD: Teemo/ezreal/MF? Support: Taric/Lux? Jungle: Xin/Shaco/Maokai? A loooot of low elo players have no idea how to finish a game when they have a lead (probably me too since I am low elo). I have extremely good nasus stats simply because many players don't take advantage of his midgame weakness. My most recent game with him our last pick refused to support and went mid. They both got stomped along with our bot lane. The other team got a huge kill advantage and pushed us down to our inhib turrets, but wasn't coordinated enough to take them down. We eventually won a 55 minute game just by outscaling them. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
His damage falls off because he doesn't build AP, but he scales well. | ||
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On April 23 2012 10:25 sob3k wrote: Just thinking...What is the worst scaling lategame team within reasonable approximation of normal meta? Top: Panth/Renekton/Xin/Garen? Mid: Sion/Heimerdinger/Lux AD: Teemo/ezreal/MF? Support: Taric/Lux? Jungle: Xin/Shaco/Maokai? 1. I don't think Xin is real. Of the rest I would say: Garen, Heimer, Teemo, XXX, Panth Jungle (its real, kinda). But that probably wasn't the issue... On April 23 2012 10:33 petered wrote: A loooot of low elo players have no idea how to finish a game when they have a lead (probably me too since I am low elo). I have extremely good nasus stats simply because many players don't take advantage of his midgame weakness. My most recent game with him our last pick refused to support and went mid. They both got stomped along with our bot lane. The other team got a huge kill advantage and pushed us down to our inhib turrets, but wasn't coordinated enough to take them down. We eventually won a 55 minute game just by outscaling them. Happens so much. I was just on a team (playing mundo jungle) we were up 4-0 at one point and 22-10(ish). But I would ward dragon, ping it when it was coming up, and no one would go. The whole team would chase a guy from bot lane to top lane while letting the other team get objectives. It was literally like the believed a kill > a tower/baron. | ||
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Craton
United States17303 Posts
Fast forward a year and it's still mostly the case, but with some exceptions. Occasionally you'll send an AD mid to counter specific lanes or run one top against certain bruisers. Roaming is rare, but happens in select circumstances. These days it tends to be Urgot lanes that 1v2 (if you're 1v2ing as the AD). The only minor downside of this meta is that there's a bit of unwillingness to try other things at lower Elos, but mostly because people have no faith in people to not just be stupid/trolling/bad/etc. That said, it's not like things were better beforehand. The people who won out on this shift were solo queue players, especially in normals. | ||
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
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eagle
United States693 Posts
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rackdude
United States882 Posts
On April 23 2012 11:18 Craton wrote: Dreamhack (S1 Championship) was nice because it really solidified the meta for solo queue normals and ranked. You had to fight over who would go where before (basically everyone wanted to solo no matter what they were running even when it was better suited for someone else) and you'd get lots of really shitty bot compositions that wouldn't work or were weak (this weakness is basically what allowed roaming to work in the first place). At DH, EU backed up their claims that roaming wouldn't work because AD/Support would shut down whatever you left alone at bot. Fast forward a year and it's still mostly the case, but with some exceptions. Occasionally you'll send an AD mid to counter specific lanes or run one top against certain bruisers. Roaming is rare, but happens in select circumstances. These days it tends to be Urgot lanes that 1v2 (if you're 1v2ing as the AD). The only minor downside of this meta is that there's a bit of unwillingness to try other things at lower Elos, but mostly because people have no faith in people to not just be stupid/trolling/bad/etc. That said, it's not like things were better beforehand. The people who won out on this shift were solo queue players, especially in normals. It wasn't just DH. It was also large patch changes that made roaming harder to actually pull off. The nerf to dorans, nerf to GP5s, special nerf to HoG to get rid of armor, nerf to dragon gold, nerf to the gold that someone gets for kill streaks (used to be 1000 gold!!!), and on top of that they buffed Soraka and Sona at around that time. Also new stronger ADs just came out, Vayne was one. Cait and Kog got buffed. All of those made it more beneficial to farm bot instead of trying to grab a kill, and thus while before either was kinda viable, after all of those changes the roaming was basically killed. | ||
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Jaso
United States2147 Posts
"gotta report olaf for no cooldown axe hack and kennen for walk through anivia wall hack" olaf is nintendudex, kennen is cruzerthebruzer lol. | ||
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eagle
United States693 Posts
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Jaso
United States2147 Posts
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Chiharu Harukaze
12112 Posts
On April 23 2012 11:49 cascades wrote: I can't rmb what was bot lane before DH. Serious qn. Here's some actual games with the full lane matchups and links to the games. It's quite interesting. All pre-Dreamhack Season 1 Championships too and ordered in chronological order. There's a very clear move from putting bruisers/double CC bot to having the AD move from mid/top to bottom as well. WCG 2010 US Qualifiers Finals Nidalee v Trist top, Ashe v Vlad mid, Nunu v Amumu Jungle, Morgana+Sion v Janna+Garen bot. WCG 2010 Grand Finals SK v CLG Ashe v Morgana top, MF v TF mid, Amumu v Shen jungle, Kassadin+Soraka v Taric+Garen bot Go4LoL NA Cup 7 Teemo v Nidalee top, Gragas v Corki mid, Noc v WW jungle, Janna+Cho v Shen+Taric bot NESL Finals CLG v DAO (before Xpecial went to TSM) Nidalee v Kennen top, Corki v MF mid, Amumu v Olaf jungle, Taric+Lux Cho'gath+Janna bot NESL Premier League CLG v Teamliquid Jarmander v Swain top, Corki v Ryze mid, Noc v Amumu jungle, Chogath v Soraka+Cait, roam Eve (TL) NESL Premier League DAO v Teamliquid Jarmander v Ryze top, Teemo v Trist mid, Olaf v Noc jungle, Chogath v Blitz+Mundo, roam Eve (TL) NESL Premier League TSM v Teamliquid Corki v Annie top, Vlad v Ashe mid, Nunu v Noc jungle, Cho'gath v Jarmander bot, roam Blitz v Taric Dreamhack Season 1 Championship NA Qualifiers Rock Solid v EG Corki v Vlad top, Malzahar v Katarina mid, Lee Sin v Nunu Jungle, Taric+Poppy v Ashe+Sona bot Dreamhack Season 1 Championship NA Qualifiers Col v CLG Jarmander v Swain top, Gragas v Vladamir mid, Cho'gath v Nunu Jungle, Soraka+Ashe v Janna+Caitlyn bot | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On April 23 2012 08:03 UniversalSnip wrote: It was post-ad support actually. I think the main reason people stopped doing it is because teams switched to instantly zoning the carry as soon as the roamer left, made it not worthwhile. For a while they were just sorta playing the lane normally while it was 2 vs 1, then they figured out they didn't have to. Naw, your timeline is off a bit. Remember, it was the US who did the roamy thing when Ad-support was taking off in europe. There were a few games with the 2 strats against eachother, but US figured out pretty quick that ad-support was the way to go, combined with all of the nerfs to roamers. What my mind is telling me happened was: Random botlanes>roaming>romers nerfed, mix of roaming and random botlanes>ad-support. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
I remember Loco making a post in this interim period mentioning some of the harder-to-gank AD solos being the ADs to play (Caitlyn, Corki). There was a shift away from roaming, but not AD+Support bottom quite yet, as people were still simply putting the roamers back bottom with the 1v2 since they couldn't accomplish anything during their roaming. The clincher was the realization that the AD+Support lane can essentially get free-farm in those kinds of lane setups, so people swapped the ADs down and the Bruisers top. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
On April 23 2012 12:27 Chiharu Harukaze wrote: I can't rmb what was bot lane before DH. Serious qn. Here's some actual games with the full lane matchups and links to the games. It's quite interesting. All pre-Dreamhack Season 1 Championships too and ordered in chronological order. There's a very clear move from putting bruisers/double CC bot to having the AD move from mid/top to bottom as well. NESL Premier League DAO v Teamliquid Jarmander v Ryze top, Teemo v Trist mid, Olaf v Noc jungle, Chogath v Blitz+Mundo, roam Eve (TL) Haha I remember this game. Dat chrispy teemo. edit: Double HoG chogath. Those were the days. | ||
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Kouda
United States2205 Posts
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HPoirot
United States1303 Posts
From Go4LoL #3, circa March 2011, TSM vs Whale. Amumu vs Olaf Jungle, Dr. Mundo vs Corki Top, Warwick vs Akali Mid, Irelia vs Singed bot, Nunu vs Alistar Roam. Whale vs TL, circa March 2011 Nunu vs. Malphite Jungle, Dr. Mundo vs Karthus Top, Warwick vs Corki Mid, Irelia vs Cho'Gath Bot, Alistar vs Taric Roam. | ||
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