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On April 22 2012 16:14 UniversalSnip wrote:
Ok after some more thought I think one thing people are missing here is that healing is not a stat you wanna stack to infinity anyway. This is the same reason manamune banshees frozen is a horrible build. Adding a multiplier along the axis of a stat that sucks worse and worse the more you get of it is the opposite of powerful. An item has to be really, really freaking OP to make a build like that good. SV actually used to be but it's gotten nerfed to the point of fairness, ie, it sucks.
Healing not a stat you want to stack to infinity?
lolwut?
I feel like you've never play Mundo. It so fun to be sitting on Mercs-FoN-Omen-Warmogsx3 and just never die... ever. Pop ult and outheal both nexus towers too good. Run like a Kenyan and 1v5 teams like a boss because cleavers do % damage, you have a huge AD steroid, and you regen like 500 HP/5 without ult on.
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On April 22 2012 17:02 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 16:14 UniversalSnip wrote:
Ok after some more thought I think one thing people are missing here is that healing is not a stat you wanna stack to infinity anyway. This is the same reason manamune banshees frozen is a horrible build. Adding a multiplier along the axis of a stat that sucks worse and worse the more you get of it is the opposite of powerful. An item has to be really, really freaking OP to make a build like that good. SV actually used to be but it's gotten nerfed to the point of fairness, ie, it sucks. Healing not a stat you want to stack to infinity? lolwut? I feel like you've never play Mundo. It so fun to be sitting on Mercs-FoN-Omen-Warmogsx3 and just never die... ever. Pop ult and outheal both nexus towers too good. Run like a Kenyan and 1v5 teams like a boss because cleavers do % damage, you have a huge AD steroid, and you regen like 500 HP/5 without ult on.
Mundo is weird, he gets imbalanced healing from building HP. You get broken quantities of healing for free from building something you were going to build anyway. You have to get pretty deep into your build before you consider fon, and the only reason it makes sense with how much he heals already is because you are stacking more hp than anyone else in the game.
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On April 22 2012 17:11 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 17:02 iCanada wrote:On April 22 2012 16:14 UniversalSnip wrote:
Ok after some more thought I think one thing people are missing here is that healing is not a stat you wanna stack to infinity anyway. This is the same reason manamune banshees frozen is a horrible build. Adding a multiplier along the axis of a stat that sucks worse and worse the more you get of it is the opposite of powerful. An item has to be really, really freaking OP to make a build like that good. SV actually used to be but it's gotten nerfed to the point of fairness, ie, it sucks. Healing not a stat you want to stack to infinity? lolwut? I feel like you've never play Mundo. It so fun to be sitting on Mercs-FoN-Omen-Warmogsx3 and just never die... ever. Pop ult and outheal both nexus towers too good. Run like a Kenyan and 1v5 teams like a boss because cleavers do % damage, you have a huge AD steroid, and you regen like 500 HP/5 without ult on. Mundo is weird, he gets imbalanced healing from building HP. You get broken quantities of healing from building something you were going to build anyway. If you had to build something that sucked to get it, the healing steroid would not be good.
I don't understand your arguement...
SV's stats dont suck. Everyone likes CDR. Everyone like HP. Everyone likes MR. (unless their entire team has no Magic damage...)
You get better healing and stats you want anyway. You have to be trolling.
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On April 22 2012 17:13 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 17:11 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:02 iCanada wrote:On April 22 2012 16:14 UniversalSnip wrote:
Ok after some more thought I think one thing people are missing here is that healing is not a stat you wanna stack to infinity anyway. This is the same reason manamune banshees frozen is a horrible build. Adding a multiplier along the axis of a stat that sucks worse and worse the more you get of it is the opposite of powerful. An item has to be really, really freaking OP to make a build like that good. SV actually used to be but it's gotten nerfed to the point of fairness, ie, it sucks. Healing not a stat you want to stack to infinity? lolwut? I feel like you've never play Mundo. It so fun to be sitting on Mercs-FoN-Omen-Warmogsx3 and just never die... ever. Pop ult and outheal both nexus towers too good. Run like a Kenyan and 1v5 teams like a boss because cleavers do % damage, you have a huge AD steroid, and you regen like 500 HP/5 without ult on. Mundo is weird, he gets imbalanced healing from building HP. You get broken quantities of healing from building something you were going to build anyway. If you had to build something that sucked to get it, the healing steroid would not be good. I don't understand your arguement... SV's stats dont suck. Everyone likes CDR. Everyone like HP. Everyone likes MR. (unless their entire team has no Magic damage...)
It's not 1550 gold worth of that stuff.
It just isn't.
Do the math, it just sucks sitting there by itself compared to working on a huge item like wits or rylais or wota or dcap or something, and it doesn't make any sense to stack healing effects to get it to the point where it's strong, which is so... so far away.
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On April 22 2012 17:17 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 17:13 iCanada wrote:On April 22 2012 17:11 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:02 iCanada wrote:On April 22 2012 16:14 UniversalSnip wrote:
Ok after some more thought I think one thing people are missing here is that healing is not a stat you wanna stack to infinity anyway. This is the same reason manamune banshees frozen is a horrible build. Adding a multiplier along the axis of a stat that sucks worse and worse the more you get of it is the opposite of powerful. An item has to be really, really freaking OP to make a build like that good. SV actually used to be but it's gotten nerfed to the point of fairness, ie, it sucks. Healing not a stat you want to stack to infinity? lolwut? I feel like you've never play Mundo. It so fun to be sitting on Mercs-FoN-Omen-Warmogsx3 and just never die... ever. Pop ult and outheal both nexus towers too good. Run like a Kenyan and 1v5 teams like a boss because cleavers do % damage, you have a huge AD steroid, and you regen like 500 HP/5 without ult on. Mundo is weird, he gets imbalanced healing from building HP. You get broken quantities of healing from building something you were going to build anyway. If you had to build something that sucked to get it, the healing steroid would not be good. I don't understand your arguement... SV's stats dont suck. Everyone likes CDR. Everyone like HP. Everyone likes MR. (unless their entire team has no Magic damage...) It's not 1550 gold worth of that stuff. It just isn't. Do the math, it just sucks sitting there by itself compared to working on a huge item like wits or rylais or wota or dcap or something, and it doesn't make any sense to stack healing effects to get it to the point where it's strong, which is so... so far away.
Please do tell us where you get cdr/hp/mr on champs like morde or vlad without wasting gold on stats you dont use.
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On April 22 2012 17:19 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 17:17 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:13 iCanada wrote:On April 22 2012 17:11 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:02 iCanada wrote:On April 22 2012 16:14 UniversalSnip wrote:
Ok after some more thought I think one thing people are missing here is that healing is not a stat you wanna stack to infinity anyway. This is the same reason manamune banshees frozen is a horrible build. Adding a multiplier along the axis of a stat that sucks worse and worse the more you get of it is the opposite of powerful. An item has to be really, really freaking OP to make a build like that good. SV actually used to be but it's gotten nerfed to the point of fairness, ie, it sucks. Healing not a stat you want to stack to infinity? lolwut? I feel like you've never play Mundo. It so fun to be sitting on Mercs-FoN-Omen-Warmogsx3 and just never die... ever. Pop ult and outheal both nexus towers too good. Run like a Kenyan and 1v5 teams like a boss because cleavers do % damage, you have a huge AD steroid, and you regen like 500 HP/5 without ult on. Mundo is weird, he gets imbalanced healing from building HP. You get broken quantities of healing from building something you were going to build anyway. If you had to build something that sucked to get it, the healing steroid would not be good. I don't understand your arguement... SV's stats dont suck. Everyone likes CDR. Everyone like HP. Everyone likes MR. (unless their entire team has no Magic damage...) It's not 1550 gold worth of that stuff. It just isn't. Do the math, it just sucks sitting there by itself compared to working on a huge item like wits or rylais or wota or dcap or something, and it doesn't make any sense to stack healing effects to get it to the point where it's strong, which is so... so far away. Please do tell us where you get cdr/hp/mr on champs like morde or vlad without wasting gold on stats you dont use.
If you can't think of good items to build besides spirit visage on vlad or morde I'm not going to tell you what the alternatives are. Open up the shop and look for yourself.
I can't believe that's your argument, "what else am I going to build?" I don't know, ANYTHING? These are hard scaling champs, there are a lot of things you can dump 1550 gold into that are going to be good.
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On April 22 2012 17:20 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 17:19 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:17 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:13 iCanada wrote:On April 22 2012 17:11 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:02 iCanada wrote:On April 22 2012 16:14 UniversalSnip wrote:
Ok after some more thought I think one thing people are missing here is that healing is not a stat you wanna stack to infinity anyway. This is the same reason manamune banshees frozen is a horrible build. Adding a multiplier along the axis of a stat that sucks worse and worse the more you get of it is the opposite of powerful. An item has to be really, really freaking OP to make a build like that good. SV actually used to be but it's gotten nerfed to the point of fairness, ie, it sucks. Healing not a stat you want to stack to infinity? lolwut? I feel like you've never play Mundo. It so fun to be sitting on Mercs-FoN-Omen-Warmogsx3 and just never die... ever. Pop ult and outheal both nexus towers too good. Run like a Kenyan and 1v5 teams like a boss because cleavers do % damage, you have a huge AD steroid, and you regen like 500 HP/5 without ult on. Mundo is weird, he gets imbalanced healing from building HP. You get broken quantities of healing from building something you were going to build anyway. If you had to build something that sucked to get it, the healing steroid would not be good. I don't understand your arguement... SV's stats dont suck. Everyone likes CDR. Everyone like HP. Everyone likes MR. (unless their entire team has no Magic damage...) It's not 1550 gold worth of that stuff. It just isn't. Do the math, it just sucks sitting there by itself compared to working on a huge item like wits or rylais or wota or dcap or something, and it doesn't make any sense to stack healing effects to get it to the point where it's strong, which is so... so far away. Please do tell us where you get cdr/hp/mr on champs like morde or vlad without wasting gold on stats you dont use. If you can't think of good items to build besides spirit visage on vlad or morde I'm not going to tell you what the alternatives are. Open up the shop and look for yourself. I can't believe that's your argument, "what else am I going to build?" I don't know, ANYTHING? These are hard scaling champs, there are a lot of things you can dump 1550 gold into that are going to be good.
Try reading, what other item that gives cdr, hp and resists, not what other item do I buy for 1550g instead. I take it you just stack large rods since they're really good and 1600gold, right.
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On April 22 2012 17:34 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 17:20 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:19 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:17 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:13 iCanada wrote:On April 22 2012 17:11 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:02 iCanada wrote:On April 22 2012 16:14 UniversalSnip wrote:
Ok after some more thought I think one thing people are missing here is that healing is not a stat you wanna stack to infinity anyway. This is the same reason manamune banshees frozen is a horrible build. Adding a multiplier along the axis of a stat that sucks worse and worse the more you get of it is the opposite of powerful. An item has to be really, really freaking OP to make a build like that good. SV actually used to be but it's gotten nerfed to the point of fairness, ie, it sucks. Healing not a stat you want to stack to infinity? lolwut? I feel like you've never play Mundo. It so fun to be sitting on Mercs-FoN-Omen-Warmogsx3 and just never die... ever. Pop ult and outheal both nexus towers too good. Run like a Kenyan and 1v5 teams like a boss because cleavers do % damage, you have a huge AD steroid, and you regen like 500 HP/5 without ult on. Mundo is weird, he gets imbalanced healing from building HP. You get broken quantities of healing from building something you were going to build anyway. If you had to build something that sucked to get it, the healing steroid would not be good. I don't understand your arguement... SV's stats dont suck. Everyone likes CDR. Everyone like HP. Everyone likes MR. (unless their entire team has no Magic damage...) It's not 1550 gold worth of that stuff. It just isn't. Do the math, it just sucks sitting there by itself compared to working on a huge item like wits or rylais or wota or dcap or something, and it doesn't make any sense to stack healing effects to get it to the point where it's strong, which is so... so far away. Please do tell us where you get cdr/hp/mr on champs like morde or vlad without wasting gold on stats you dont use. If you can't think of good items to build besides spirit visage on vlad or morde I'm not going to tell you what the alternatives are. Open up the shop and look for yourself. I can't believe that's your argument, "what else am I going to build?" I don't know, ANYTHING? These are hard scaling champs, there are a lot of things you can dump 1550 gold into that are going to be good. Try reading, what other item that gives cdr, hp and resists
Hey, what items besides nashors gives attack speed, ap, mana regen and cooldown reduction? Nothing? clearly, than, nashors has been good since it's inception. I don't even know why they buffed it recently, can't get those stats anywhere else...
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On April 22 2012 17:39 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 17:34 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:20 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:19 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:17 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:13 iCanada wrote:On April 22 2012 17:11 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:02 iCanada wrote:On April 22 2012 16:14 UniversalSnip wrote:
Ok after some more thought I think one thing people are missing here is that healing is not a stat you wanna stack to infinity anyway. This is the same reason manamune banshees frozen is a horrible build. Adding a multiplier along the axis of a stat that sucks worse and worse the more you get of it is the opposite of powerful. An item has to be really, really freaking OP to make a build like that good. SV actually used to be but it's gotten nerfed to the point of fairness, ie, it sucks. Healing not a stat you want to stack to infinity? lolwut? I feel like you've never play Mundo. It so fun to be sitting on Mercs-FoN-Omen-Warmogsx3 and just never die... ever. Pop ult and outheal both nexus towers too good. Run like a Kenyan and 1v5 teams like a boss because cleavers do % damage, you have a huge AD steroid, and you regen like 500 HP/5 without ult on. Mundo is weird, he gets imbalanced healing from building HP. You get broken quantities of healing from building something you were going to build anyway. If you had to build something that sucked to get it, the healing steroid would not be good. I don't understand your arguement... SV's stats dont suck. Everyone likes CDR. Everyone like HP. Everyone likes MR. (unless their entire team has no Magic damage...) It's not 1550 gold worth of that stuff. It just isn't. Do the math, it just sucks sitting there by itself compared to working on a huge item like wits or rylais or wota or dcap or something, and it doesn't make any sense to stack healing effects to get it to the point where it's strong, which is so... so far away. Please do tell us where you get cdr/hp/mr on champs like morde or vlad without wasting gold on stats you dont use. If you can't think of good items to build besides spirit visage on vlad or morde I'm not going to tell you what the alternatives are. Open up the shop and look for yourself. I can't believe that's your argument, "what else am I going to build?" I don't know, ANYTHING? These are hard scaling champs, there are a lot of things you can dump 1550 gold into that are going to be good. Try reading, what other item that gives cdr, hp and resists Hey, what items besides nashors gives attack speed, ap, mana regen and cooldown reduction? Nothing? clearly, than, nashors has been good since it's inception. I don't even know why they buffed it recently, can't get those stats anywhere else...
If you actually need ap, manaregen, cdr and attackspeed then yes nashors is a good choice. Not sure what's so hard to understand about that. But sure, you go and buy a large rod instead, and tell me how it helped you against a veigar or a lebonk.
Did you get stomped by a 5 SV vlad once for you to be this mad about an item?
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On April 22 2012 17:39 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 17:34 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:20 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:19 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:17 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:13 iCanada wrote:On April 22 2012 17:11 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:02 iCanada wrote:On April 22 2012 16:14 UniversalSnip wrote:
Ok after some more thought I think one thing people are missing here is that healing is not a stat you wanna stack to infinity anyway. This is the same reason manamune banshees frozen is a horrible build. Adding a multiplier along the axis of a stat that sucks worse and worse the more you get of it is the opposite of powerful. An item has to be really, really freaking OP to make a build like that good. SV actually used to be but it's gotten nerfed to the point of fairness, ie, it sucks. Healing not a stat you want to stack to infinity? lolwut? I feel like you've never play Mundo. It so fun to be sitting on Mercs-FoN-Omen-Warmogsx3 and just never die... ever. Pop ult and outheal both nexus towers too good. Run like a Kenyan and 1v5 teams like a boss because cleavers do % damage, you have a huge AD steroid, and you regen like 500 HP/5 without ult on. Mundo is weird, he gets imbalanced healing from building HP. You get broken quantities of healing from building something you were going to build anyway. If you had to build something that sucked to get it, the healing steroid would not be good. I don't understand your arguement... SV's stats dont suck. Everyone likes CDR. Everyone like HP. Everyone likes MR. (unless their entire team has no Magic damage...) It's not 1550 gold worth of that stuff. It just isn't. Do the math, it just sucks sitting there by itself compared to working on a huge item like wits or rylais or wota or dcap or something, and it doesn't make any sense to stack healing effects to get it to the point where it's strong, which is so... so far away. Please do tell us where you get cdr/hp/mr on champs like morde or vlad without wasting gold on stats you dont use. If you can't think of good items to build besides spirit visage on vlad or morde I'm not going to tell you what the alternatives are. Open up the shop and look for yourself. I can't believe that's your argument, "what else am I going to build?" I don't know, ANYTHING? These are hard scaling champs, there are a lot of things you can dump 1550 gold into that are going to be good. Try reading, what other item that gives cdr, hp and resists Hey, what items besides nashors gives attack speed, ap, mana regen and cooldown reduction? Nothing? clearly, than, nashors has been good since it's inception. I don't even know why they buffed it recently, can't get those stats anywhere else...
Difference is no one wants all four of those stats because unless Hybrid items OP as hell it stronger to just focus on AP/AD rather than both. That, and Mana regen the most useless stat in the world anyway because champs that need it get bluebuff anyway... and any champ that wants attack speed and AP has no use of Mana regen anyway.
Only champs Nash decent on is like maybe WW or Teemo.
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On April 22 2012 17:42 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 17:39 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:34 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:20 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:19 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:17 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:13 iCanada wrote:On April 22 2012 17:11 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:02 iCanada wrote:On April 22 2012 16:14 UniversalSnip wrote:
Ok after some more thought I think one thing people are missing here is that healing is not a stat you wanna stack to infinity anyway. This is the same reason manamune banshees frozen is a horrible build. Adding a multiplier along the axis of a stat that sucks worse and worse the more you get of it is the opposite of powerful. An item has to be really, really freaking OP to make a build like that good. SV actually used to be but it's gotten nerfed to the point of fairness, ie, it sucks. Healing not a stat you want to stack to infinity? lolwut? I feel like you've never play Mundo. It so fun to be sitting on Mercs-FoN-Omen-Warmogsx3 and just never die... ever. Pop ult and outheal both nexus towers too good. Run like a Kenyan and 1v5 teams like a boss because cleavers do % damage, you have a huge AD steroid, and you regen like 500 HP/5 without ult on. Mundo is weird, he gets imbalanced healing from building HP. You get broken quantities of healing from building something you were going to build anyway. If you had to build something that sucked to get it, the healing steroid would not be good. I don't understand your arguement... SV's stats dont suck. Everyone likes CDR. Everyone like HP. Everyone likes MR. (unless their entire team has no Magic damage...) It's not 1550 gold worth of that stuff. It just isn't. Do the math, it just sucks sitting there by itself compared to working on a huge item like wits or rylais or wota or dcap or something, and it doesn't make any sense to stack healing effects to get it to the point where it's strong, which is so... so far away. Please do tell us where you get cdr/hp/mr on champs like morde or vlad without wasting gold on stats you dont use. If you can't think of good items to build besides spirit visage on vlad or morde I'm not going to tell you what the alternatives are. Open up the shop and look for yourself. I can't believe that's your argument, "what else am I going to build?" I don't know, ANYTHING? These are hard scaling champs, there are a lot of things you can dump 1550 gold into that are going to be good. Try reading, what other item that gives cdr, hp and resists Hey, what items besides nashors gives attack speed, ap, mana regen and cooldown reduction? Nothing? clearly, than, nashors has been good since it's inception. I don't even know why they buffed it recently, can't get those stats anywhere else... If you actually need ap, manaregen, cdr and attackspeed then yes nashors is a good choice.
Was it a good choice before the buff? I have no idea if it's good now but I'm absolutely certain it wasn't before. The point is that cost is relevant no matter what combination of stats an item gives. It makes no sense to say "this gives x y and z therefore it's good".
Not sure what's so hard to understand about that. But sure, you go and buy a large rod instead, and tell me how it helped you against a veigar or a lebonk.
Did you get stomped by a 5 SV vlad once for you to be this mad about an item?
How civil you are jackdino. For 100 gold more you can buy a negatron and finish upgrading from revolver to wota. Veigar can put that in his pipe and smoke it.
Only champs Nash decent on is like maybe WW
ugh...
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On April 22 2012 17:49 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 17:42 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:39 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:34 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:20 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:19 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:17 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:13 iCanada wrote:On April 22 2012 17:11 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:02 iCanada wrote:
[quote]
Healing not a stat you want to stack to infinity?
lolwut?
I feel like you've never play Mundo. It so fun to be sitting on Mercs-FoN-Omen-Warmogsx3 and just never die... ever. Pop ult and outheal both nexus towers too good. Run like a Kenyan and 1v5 teams like a boss because cleavers do % damage, you have a huge AD steroid, and you regen like 500 HP/5 without ult on. Mundo is weird, he gets imbalanced healing from building HP. You get broken quantities of healing from building something you were going to build anyway. If you had to build something that sucked to get it, the healing steroid would not be good. I don't understand your arguement... SV's stats dont suck. Everyone likes CDR. Everyone like HP. Everyone likes MR. (unless their entire team has no Magic damage...) It's not 1550 gold worth of that stuff. It just isn't. Do the math, it just sucks sitting there by itself compared to working on a huge item like wits or rylais or wota or dcap or something, and it doesn't make any sense to stack healing effects to get it to the point where it's strong, which is so... so far away. Please do tell us where you get cdr/hp/mr on champs like morde or vlad without wasting gold on stats you dont use. If you can't think of good items to build besides spirit visage on vlad or morde I'm not going to tell you what the alternatives are. Open up the shop and look for yourself. I can't believe that's your argument, "what else am I going to build?" I don't know, ANYTHING? These are hard scaling champs, there are a lot of things you can dump 1550 gold into that are going to be good. Try reading, what other item that gives cdr, hp and resists Hey, what items besides nashors gives attack speed, ap, mana regen and cooldown reduction? Nothing? clearly, than, nashors has been good since it's inception. I don't even know why they buffed it recently, can't get those stats anywhere else... If you actually need ap, manaregen, cdr and attackspeed then yes nashors is a good choice. Was it a good choice before the buff? I have no idea if it's good now but I'm absolutely certain it wasn't before. The point is that cost is relevant no matter what combination of stats an item gives. It makes no sense to say "this gives x y and z therefore it's good". Show nested quote +Not sure what's so hard to understand about that. But sure, you go and buy a large rod instead, and tell me how it helped you against a veigar or a lebonk.
Did you get stomped by a 5 SV vlad once for you to be this mad about an item? How civil you are jackdino. For 100 gold more you can buy a negatron and finish upgrading from revolver to wota. Veigar can put that in his pipe and smoke it. ugh...
Already have wota, SV lets me stay in lane longer, negatrons doesnt.
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I interrupt this conversation to inform you that Blitzcrank support is super strong. Just don't pair him with Ashe.
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On April 22 2012 17:51 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 17:49 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:42 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:39 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:34 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:20 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:19 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:17 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:13 iCanada wrote:On April 22 2012 17:11 UniversalSnip wrote:
[quote]
Mundo is weird, he gets imbalanced healing from building HP. You get broken quantities of healing from building something you were going to build anyway. If you had to build something that sucked to get it, the healing steroid would not be good. I don't understand your arguement... SV's stats dont suck. Everyone likes CDR. Everyone like HP. Everyone likes MR. (unless their entire team has no Magic damage...) It's not 1550 gold worth of that stuff. It just isn't. Do the math, it just sucks sitting there by itself compared to working on a huge item like wits or rylais or wota or dcap or something, and it doesn't make any sense to stack healing effects to get it to the point where it's strong, which is so... so far away. Please do tell us where you get cdr/hp/mr on champs like morde or vlad without wasting gold on stats you dont use. If you can't think of good items to build besides spirit visage on vlad or morde I'm not going to tell you what the alternatives are. Open up the shop and look for yourself. I can't believe that's your argument, "what else am I going to build?" I don't know, ANYTHING? These are hard scaling champs, there are a lot of things you can dump 1550 gold into that are going to be good. Try reading, what other item that gives cdr, hp and resists Hey, what items besides nashors gives attack speed, ap, mana regen and cooldown reduction? Nothing? clearly, than, nashors has been good since it's inception. I don't even know why they buffed it recently, can't get those stats anywhere else... If you actually need ap, manaregen, cdr and attackspeed then yes nashors is a good choice. Was it a good choice before the buff? I have no idea if it's good now but I'm absolutely certain it wasn't before. The point is that cost is relevant no matter what combination of stats an item gives. It makes no sense to say "this gives x y and z therefore it's good". Not sure what's so hard to understand about that. But sure, you go and buy a large rod instead, and tell me how it helped you against a veigar or a lebonk.
Did you get stomped by a 5 SV vlad once for you to be this mad about an item? How civil you are jackdino. For 100 gold more you can buy a negatron and finish upgrading from revolver to wota. Veigar can put that in his pipe and smoke it. Only champs Nash decent on is like maybe WW ugh... Already have wota, SV lets me stay in lane longer, negatrons doesnt.
negatron does let you stay in lane longer...
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On April 22 2012 17:49 UniversalSnip wrote:ugh...
I didn't say good, I said decent. I still think it would be stronger for both those champs to just focus on AD or AP. That being said, Nashors gives both AD/AP WW sustain, and increases teemo's damage whether AD or AP... especially since Teemo poison doesn't bug out after a certain attack speed.
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On April 22 2012 17:55 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 17:51 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:49 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:42 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:39 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:34 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:20 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:19 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:17 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:13 iCanada wrote:
[quote]
I don't understand your arguement...
SV's stats dont suck. Everyone likes CDR. Everyone like HP. Everyone likes MR. (unless their entire team has no Magic damage...) It's not 1550 gold worth of that stuff. It just isn't. Do the math, it just sucks sitting there by itself compared to working on a huge item like wits or rylais or wota or dcap or something, and it doesn't make any sense to stack healing effects to get it to the point where it's strong, which is so... so far away. Please do tell us where you get cdr/hp/mr on champs like morde or vlad without wasting gold on stats you dont use. If you can't think of good items to build besides spirit visage on vlad or morde I'm not going to tell you what the alternatives are. Open up the shop and look for yourself. I can't believe that's your argument, "what else am I going to build?" I don't know, ANYTHING? These are hard scaling champs, there are a lot of things you can dump 1550 gold into that are going to be good. Try reading, what other item that gives cdr, hp and resists Hey, what items besides nashors gives attack speed, ap, mana regen and cooldown reduction? Nothing? clearly, than, nashors has been good since it's inception. I don't even know why they buffed it recently, can't get those stats anywhere else... If you actually need ap, manaregen, cdr and attackspeed then yes nashors is a good choice. Was it a good choice before the buff? I have no idea if it's good now but I'm absolutely certain it wasn't before. The point is that cost is relevant no matter what combination of stats an item gives. It makes no sense to say "this gives x y and z therefore it's good". Not sure what's so hard to understand about that. But sure, you go and buy a large rod instead, and tell me how it helped you against a veigar or a lebonk.
Did you get stomped by a 5 SV vlad once for you to be this mad about an item? How civil you are jackdino. For 100 gold more you can buy a negatron and finish upgrading from revolver to wota. Veigar can put that in his pipe and smoke it. Only champs Nash decent on is like maybe WW ugh... Already have wota, SV lets me stay in lane longer, negatrons doesnt. negatron does let you stay in lane longer...
Not as long as spirit visage. Not saying get spirit visage all da tiemz, but at certain times I like it on vlad.
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On April 22 2012 16:41 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 16:32 Wetty wrote:On April 22 2012 16:14 UniversalSnip wrote:
Ok after some more thought I think one thing people are missing here is that healing is not a stat you wanna stack to infinity anyway. This is the same reason manamune banshees frozen is a horrible build. Adding a multiplier along the axis of a stat that sucks worse and worse the more you get of it is the opposite of powerful. An item has to be really, really freaking OP to make a build like that good. SV actually used to be but it's gotten nerfed to the point of fairness, ie, it sucks. Could you explain this better? Not really sure what your trying to state. How is healing "worse and worse" the more you get? You're buying it instead of stats that multiply with it like resists. Then once you get resists if you buy more healing you're buying it instead of stats that multiply with the resists, like hp. In the meantime you're falling behind because your damage is behind the curve and most healing effects scale off of that. It's also just common sense, doesn't your soul rebel at the thought of stacking vamp scepters? Show nested quote +It increases your EHP significantly and stacks multiplicative with other defensive stats (which the item has some of) and I feel that you also vastly undervalue CDR, especially on a characters (vlad/mord) that may not be carrying blue. Just go to the cost efficiency chart and ctrl + f for visage
First of all, the item itself has synergy, it includes resists... Then, you follow by counter pointing yourself by saying that you're buying it instead of stats that multiply with resists, yet you just said that it multiplies with resists.
Second, whilst having a SV might make your upfront burst dmg slightly less (say, compared to a needlessly large rod), you're damage isnt actually "behind the curve" because your damage output will last for longer (due to your increased survivability). In fact, in small exchanges the increased healing will definitely help you win the lane overall, and in fights that last longer than one combo, its likely the CDR and healing will play a part as well. Its like saying the IE > BT always. Sure, IE does more damage, yet BT offers sustain which can be used to your advantage.
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On April 22 2012 17:53 Seuss wrote:
I interrupt this conversation to inform you that Blitzcrank support is super strong. Just don't pair him with Ashe.
i got a blitzcrank in 5 out of 5 games tonight!
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On April 22 2012 18:03 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 17:55 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:51 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:49 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:42 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:39 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:34 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:20 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:19 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:17 UniversalSnip wrote:
[quote]
It's not 1550 gold worth of that stuff.
It just isn't.
Do the math, it just sucks sitting there by itself compared to working on a huge item like wits or rylais or wota or dcap or something, and it doesn't make any sense to stack healing effects to get it to the point where it's strong, which is so... so far away. Please do tell us where you get cdr/hp/mr on champs like morde or vlad without wasting gold on stats you dont use. If you can't think of good items to build besides spirit visage on vlad or morde I'm not going to tell you what the alternatives are. Open up the shop and look for yourself. I can't believe that's your argument, "what else am I going to build?" I don't know, ANYTHING? These are hard scaling champs, there are a lot of things you can dump 1550 gold into that are going to be good. Try reading, what other item that gives cdr, hp and resists Hey, what items besides nashors gives attack speed, ap, mana regen and cooldown reduction? Nothing? clearly, than, nashors has been good since it's inception. I don't even know why they buffed it recently, can't get those stats anywhere else... If you actually need ap, manaregen, cdr and attackspeed then yes nashors is a good choice. Was it a good choice before the buff? I have no idea if it's good now but I'm absolutely certain it wasn't before. The point is that cost is relevant no matter what combination of stats an item gives. It makes no sense to say "this gives x y and z therefore it's good". Not sure what's so hard to understand about that. But sure, you go and buy a large rod instead, and tell me how it helped you against a veigar or a lebonk.
Did you get stomped by a 5 SV vlad once for you to be this mad about an item? How civil you are jackdino. For 100 gold more you can buy a negatron and finish upgrading from revolver to wota. Veigar can put that in his pipe and smoke it. Only champs Nash decent on is like maybe WW ugh... Already have wota, SV lets me stay in lane longer, negatrons doesnt. negatron does let you stay in lane longer... Not as long as spirit visage.
raised eyebrow
On April 22 2012 18:05 Wetty wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 16:41 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 16:32 Wetty wrote:On April 22 2012 16:14 UniversalSnip wrote:
Ok after some more thought I think one thing people are missing here is that healing is not a stat you wanna stack to infinity anyway. This is the same reason manamune banshees frozen is a horrible build. Adding a multiplier along the axis of a stat that sucks worse and worse the more you get of it is the opposite of powerful. An item has to be really, really freaking OP to make a build like that good. SV actually used to be but it's gotten nerfed to the point of fairness, ie, it sucks. Could you explain this better? Not really sure what your trying to state. How is healing "worse and worse" the more you get? You're buying it instead of stats that multiply with it like resists. Then once you get resists if you buy more healing you're buying it instead of stats that multiply with the resists, like hp. In the meantime you're falling behind because your damage is behind the curve and most healing effects scale off of that. It's also just common sense, doesn't your soul rebel at the thought of stacking vamp scepters? It increases your EHP significantly and stacks multiplicative with other defensive stats (which the item has some of) and I feel that you also vastly undervalue CDR, especially on a characters (vlad/mord) that may not be carrying blue. Just go to the cost efficiency chart and ctrl + f for visage First of all, the item itself has synergy, it includes resists... Then, you follow by counter pointing yourself by saying that you're buying it instead of stats that multiply with resists, yet you just said that it multiplies with resists.
You are buying resists, you are buying HP, but you are buying them at a poor gold ratio to pay for the mediocre passive so you are losing stats that synergize. It's opportunity cost. To give you an extreme example of the principle involved imagine infinity edge cost twice as much but gave 1% attack speed. You would be losing out on attack speed, a stat that synergizes with infinity edge, by buying this new version of the item, even though it has attack speed among it's stats.
you're damage isnt actually "behind the curve" because your damage output will last for longer (due to your increased survivability
if you wanna get tanky you can do that better too
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On April 22 2012 18:20 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 18:03 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:55 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:51 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:49 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:42 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:39 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:34 JackDino wrote:On April 22 2012 17:20 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 17:19 JackDino wrote:
[quote]
Please do tell us where you get cdr/hp/mr on champs like morde or vlad without wasting gold on stats you dont use. If you can't think of good items to build besides spirit visage on vlad or morde I'm not going to tell you what the alternatives are. Open up the shop and look for yourself. I can't believe that's your argument, "what else am I going to build?" I don't know, ANYTHING? These are hard scaling champs, there are a lot of things you can dump 1550 gold into that are going to be good. Try reading, what other item that gives cdr, hp and resists Hey, what items besides nashors gives attack speed, ap, mana regen and cooldown reduction? Nothing? clearly, than, nashors has been good since it's inception. I don't even know why they buffed it recently, can't get those stats anywhere else... If you actually need ap, manaregen, cdr and attackspeed then yes nashors is a good choice. Was it a good choice before the buff? I have no idea if it's good now but I'm absolutely certain it wasn't before. The point is that cost is relevant no matter what combination of stats an item gives. It makes no sense to say "this gives x y and z therefore it's good". Not sure what's so hard to understand about that. But sure, you go and buy a large rod instead, and tell me how it helped you against a veigar or a lebonk.
Did you get stomped by a 5 SV vlad once for you to be this mad about an item? How civil you are jackdino. For 100 gold more you can buy a negatron and finish upgrading from revolver to wota. Veigar can put that in his pipe and smoke it. Only champs Nash decent on is like maybe WW ugh... Already have wota, SV lets me stay in lane longer, negatrons doesnt. negatron does let you stay in lane longer... Not as long as spirit visage. raised eyebrow Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 18:05 Wetty wrote:On April 22 2012 16:41 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 22 2012 16:32 Wetty wrote:On April 22 2012 16:14 UniversalSnip wrote:
Ok after some more thought I think one thing people are missing here is that healing is not a stat you wanna stack to infinity anyway. This is the same reason manamune banshees frozen is a horrible build. Adding a multiplier along the axis of a stat that sucks worse and worse the more you get of it is the opposite of powerful. An item has to be really, really freaking OP to make a build like that good. SV actually used to be but it's gotten nerfed to the point of fairness, ie, it sucks. Could you explain this better? Not really sure what your trying to state. How is healing "worse and worse" the more you get? You're buying it instead of stats that multiply with it like resists. Then once you get resists if you buy more healing you're buying it instead of stats that multiply with the resists, like hp. In the meantime you're falling behind because your damage is behind the curve and most healing effects scale off of that. It's also just common sense, doesn't your soul rebel at the thought of stacking vamp scepters? It increases your EHP significantly and stacks multiplicative with other defensive stats (which the item has some of) and I feel that you also vastly undervalue CDR, especially on a characters (vlad/mord) that may not be carrying blue. Just go to the cost efficiency chart and ctrl + f for visage First of all, the item itself has synergy, it includes resists... Then, you follow by counter pointing yourself by saying that you're buying it instead of stats that multiply with resists, yet you just said that it multiplies with resists. You are buying resists, you are buying HP, but you are buying them at a poor gold ratio to pay for the mediocre passive so you are losing stats that synergize. It's opportunity cost. To give you an extreme example of the principle involved imagine infinity edge cost twice as much but gave 1% attack speed. You would be losing out on attack speed, a stat that synergizes with infinity edge, by buying this new version of the item, even though it has attack speed among it's stats. Show nested quote +you're damage isnt actually "behind the curve" because your damage output will last for longer (due to your increased survivability if you wanna get tanky you can do that better too
The extra healing is an increase to EHP, making it a valuable addition to the equation which you seem to be ignoring. Also, buying SV isnt about being really tanky, ofc you can do that better with other items straight up. The idea is its a defensive item with other stats that can be quite useful to certain champions. It gives you a well rounded option at a reasonable price to have strong mid game survivability. Having a single stat defensive item that builds into something bigger isnt as strong because you get no multiplication affect. Not until you actually finish the item are you getting the full benefit of the slot spent on it.
The idea of an item like SV is that its strong in the mid game when you first finish it. As the game goes on, sure, having completed the deathcap instead of having its components would make a big difference. But, if the SV has given you an advantage early on that you might otherwise not of had, then you'll be at a very similar spot. In the late game, its always possible to sell it for another item of hiring value, and its resell price is much better than doran's which is an item commonly brought for the same purpose as i propose for SV - to give you a stronger mid game leading into your first major item purchase. Its not uncommon for a player to buy 3 dorans rings on an AP mid to acquire some extra early power... This has a very similar cost to buying a SV, yet the rings take 2 additional slots and resell for significantly less.
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EPT
