EPT[Patch 1.0.0.138: Hecarim] General Discussion - Page 31
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
On April 20 2012 04:04 Sabin010 wrote: It would be better if it increased ward duration an extra 30 seconds. Then it might actually be worth getting. That would be ridiculously overpowered lol. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
And I played a ranked game during the chat blackout-- We had a first pick jungle kayle, but it wasn't clear if he actually meant to jungle because he had smite or if he just didn't change his masteries from the game before. Instead of complaining or dodging or whatever, everyone just rolled with it-- no one picked top, and then our last pick went with olaf so he could easily play top or switch to jungle if kalye switched things up last minute. All in all, things went much more smoothly than I expected for 1500 elo :D | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
100% of the games I've been in with solo lulu have resulted in a win for lulu's team. Her ult, man... | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
most auto-AD carries get 2 doran's blade, and usually a BT as their 4th or 5th item. That's 18% lifesteal right there, + more once you start stacking your BT. The difference between 18% and 21% doesn't mean much. If you were trading 1v1 with another AD carry that had less lifesteal than you, well in that specific case it would mean the difference between getting a kill and dying. However that rarely happens in late-game. Also, 18%-20% is plenty of lifesteal to fill up your health bar on minions/monsters. Now, with havoc, you are doing an additional damage every hit. It may not seem like much at first, but remember that AD carries build AD, AS, and crit. With IE and PD, you are critting over half of your attacks, and doing 250% damage per crit. My typical Kog build does ~880 damage per crit without using Havoc. Havoc would add another 13 damage per hit. But factoring in AS, most champs are around 1.5 attacks per second, so that's about 18-20 extra dps. I'd rather have that than an extra 3% lifesteal when i already have almost 20% lifesteal. Not every AD carry builds the same, but those are some good baseline stats using common items like IE, BT, doran's blades. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On April 20 2012 04:33 Eiii wrote: Solo lane lulu is super legit if they know what they're doing, though :s 100% of the games I've been in with solo lulu have resulted in a win for lulu's team. Her ult, man... I on the other hand have never won with solo lulu on my team. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On April 20 2012 04:34 Mogwai wrote: I on the other hand have never won with solo lulu on my team. Its the Shaco effect. Yours always sucks, theirs is legendary before 2 minutes. | ||
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
On April 20 2012 04:34 BlasiuS wrote: Actually, I think for most AD carries that rely on autoattacks, Havoc is probably better. most auto-AD carries get 2 doran's blade, and usually a BT as their 4th or 5th item. That's 18% lifesteal right there, + more once you start stacking your BT. The difference between 18% and 21% doesn't mean much. If you were trading 1v1 with another AD carry that had less lifesteal than you, well in that specific case it would mean the difference between getting a kill and dying. However that rarely happens in late-game. Also, 18%-20% is plenty of lifesteal to fill up your health bar on minions/monsters. Now, with havoc, you are doing an additional damage every hit. It may not seem like much at first, but remember that AD carries build AD, AS, and crit. With IE and PD, you are critting over half of your attacks, and doing 250% damage per crit. My typical Kog build does ~880 damage per crit without using Havoc. Havoc would add another 13 damage per hit. But factoring in AS, most champs are around 1.5 attacks per second, so that's about 18-20 extra dps. I'd rather have that than an extra 3% lifesteal when i already have almost 20% lifesteal. Not every AD carry builds the same, but those are some good baseline stats using common items like IE, BT, doran's blades. Kog with 350dmg, 1.5 aspd, constantly autoattacking something-- I'd rather have the 350*3%*1.5*5 = ~80 hp/5 regen (not including the crits you calculate the extra % damage on) than an extra ~20 dps. | ||
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Inschato
Canada1349 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On April 20 2012 04:34 Mogwai wrote: I on the other hand have never won with solo lulu on my team. Its a mixed bag. Ive seen it like 5x, and three of them the lulu was totally underfarmed and couldnt do crap. The other two, she got some kills, and denied farm completely. As an aside, SoloQ jungle, is there a more frustrating role? TheOddOne loses more in soloQ than the rest of TSM together it seems. | ||
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
On April 20 2012 04:38 Inschato wrote: I have won as solo lane lulu, lost as her, and beaten her. You guys and your selective memories/anecdotal evidence. Haha, it's easy for me to remember because I've only played in three games with her. One was a normal with friends, one was a scrim, and one was a solo queue game last week. ALL WINS! | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On April 20 2012 04:39 cLutZ wrote: Its a mixed bag. Ive seen it like 5x, and three of them the lulu was totally underfarmed and couldnt do crap. The other two, she got some kills, and denied farm completely. As an aside, SoloQ jungle, is there a more frustrating role? TheOddOne loses more in soloQ than the rest of TSM together it seems. the problem with TOO is that he listens to his teammates in solo q | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On April 20 2012 04:38 Eiii wrote: Kog with 350dmg, 1.5 aspd, constantly autoattacking something-- I'd rather have the 350*3%*1.5*5 = ~80 hp/5 regen (not including the crits you calculate the extra % damage on) than an extra ~20 dps. matter of preference i guess...in your example you should aready have at least 350 * 18% * 1.5 * 5 = 472.5 hp/5 regen, which IMO is plenty for an AD carry that stays in the back of fights and generally is ONLY concerned about doing more damage. At that point you just want to maximize damage, which...is exactly what Havoc does. | ||
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
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anmolsinghmzn2009
India1783 Posts
On April 20 2012 03:58 barbsq wrote: dunno about renek, but lifesteal is pretty useful on panth early on. You do a shitton of autoattacking in lane, that is if you don't want to go oom, and the fact that you can quite often start dblade helps alot. Same with garen too afaik. edit: same with garen as in autoattacking happens quite a bit in lane, not that he runs oom  About pantheon : lifesteal mastery is also really good on him because most of the time you are opening against a cloth+5pot opening with a DB (and sometimes boots+3) and your E passive gives you automatic crits on stuff below 15% HP so he sustains nicely from last hitting. | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On April 20 2012 04:50 Eiii wrote: I'd argue that at that point you already do more than enough damage to melt just about anyone that needs melting-- as long as you stay alive and doing damage for the few seconds you need to, you'll win the fight. So I'd want some defensive attributes just to ensure that I stay alive for that time-- you see the same thought process from player building mid/lategame QSSes on AD carries vs teams with significant CC. It doesn't help them do more damage *directly*, but by staying alive and avoiding CC they can effectively do much more damage. I'd love to increase my HP regen during fights by about 10% rather than my damage by 1.5%. situational. Most defensive items are built because they do something you can't already do (QSS removes cc, banshee's veil blocks an attack, GA revives you, etc.), not give you a 10% increase on something you're already doing. More damage is better than an extra 10% hp/regen (only when auto-attacking) for almost all of the AD carries in the game. If 3% lifesteal on an AD carry often means the difference between living and dying, I think you're playing the champ incorrectly. Most AD carries are so squishy that if they focused in team fights, they immediately blow their CC/flash to escape, not stand there and keep attacking to try to lifesteal through the damage. On the other hand, doing more damage is always useful for an AD carry, since the whole point of an AD carry is to do the most damage possible. | ||
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