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United States37500 Posts
I thought this at first, huehue.
TL = TeamLess. It's a hodgepodge of EU players from various teams it seems.
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On April 20 2012 02:51 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 02:37 Slayer91 wrote:On April 20 2012 02:24 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 20 2012 02:17 Flicky wrote:On April 20 2012 01:44 Raynian wrote:On April 20 2012 01:24 Haemonculus wrote:
I've seen a lot of folks start totally forgoing armor pen runes in favor of AD runes. Why the change in attitude? I understand that for champs with solid AD ratios on spells it can be nice, but I always thought it was pretty proven that early game armor pen is significantly better than AD. And +15 AD late game is probably nothing compared to 25 armor pen.
On that topic, what're folks running on Trondamere these days? AD or arpen? I've always assloads of arpen, armor yellows, and scalin' mres blues. Two reasons, mostly. It makes it easier to last hit, and a good early game scales into a better late game. Also, the new masteries let you get 10% and 6 flat arpen. Someone crunched the math somewhere, and found out that arpen and flat AD runes are roughly equal now if you go 21 offense. I've also been told that it's to do with sustaining more with the 3% lifesteal mastery. Dat extra half a hit point in lifesteal REAL stroink. Lifesteal mastery is pretty much only good for stacking with other lifesteal. On its own its beyond terrible. That's a really stupid statement. You get the same benefit with 3%-->6% as with 12%-->15%. You just can't see the pretty green numbers with just 3% so you assume it's not there. It's like saying veteran scars is totally useless because it's only 80 hp it's only good if you stack it with other hp. It was more a statement that going for 15 ad because it make the 3% base lifesteal better is a pretty weak argument becuase the actual gain for doing it is negligible. And its really not all that stupid a statement: if you are not going to be getting any additional lifesteal you should probably look towards a different couple of points in the offense tree. 3% isnt enough to actually sustain you at any point in the game. Its like getting 3% crit and then never buying any more: sure it might help you, but its not actually going to enough to make the investment worthwhile in terms of what the stat actually SHOULD be used for.
Alright. Let's say armour pen and ad averaged out over the whole game are exactly equal. That means ignore that one is better for first 5 minutes the next for the next 5 etc. That means getting more lifesteal is still SOMETHING. It has value. It's not that noticeable but it's still there. Last hitting is an even better argument because it's a solid gold value.
Let's say you get 1.5% total damage from havoc or 3% lifesteal. EVERYONE takes 3 % lifesteal over havoc, right? But if you don't buy any lifesteal, then suddenly havoc is better? Bollocks. Lifesteal is always good. 3% isn't enough to sustain you? Sustain you through what? Sustain is sustain. If you run low on health you go back to base or buy more potions. Lots of people lane without any sustain. Some people have base sustain. It's 3% better than no sustain at all. Maybe it's as good as 10% if you have a couple of potions?
What if every mastery was made 3x as good. 3% becomes 9%, suddenly it's a really good mastery? I don't understand. You're just being completely irrational on the basis that you don't really "feel" the 3% like you "feel" 12%. But if you were used to 48% you wouldn't "feel" 12% either.
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What are some mastery points that are complete trash? I wasn't around when the new masteries came out so I missed out a lot of the mathcrafting. I'm pretty sure I get 1 or 2 mastery points which are terrible and I don't even know it.
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On April 20 2012 03:00 HazMat wrote:
What are some mastery points that are complete trash? I wasn't around when the new masteries came out so I missed out a lot of the mathcrafting. I'm pretty sure I get 1 or 2 mastery points which are terrible and I don't even know it.
Demolitionist, Honor Guard, Evasion, Vigor, Siege Commander, Mercenary, Bladed Armor, Scout, Sage
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On April 20 2012 03:04 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 03:00 HazMat wrote:
What are some mastery points that are complete trash? I wasn't around when the new masteries came out so I missed out a lot of the mathcrafting. I'm pretty sure I get 1 or 2 mastery points which are terrible and I don't even know it. Demolitionist, Honor Guard, Evasion, Vigor, Siege Commander, Mercenary, Bladed Armor, Scout, Sage
I disagree with Demolitionist and Siege Commander.
I have rushed towers at level one with a full team using those masteries, and as a consequence gotten a level one tower with little risk.
So if someone is going for both Offensive and Defnsive masteries and has four friends that want to cheese, then...it's niche, but good.
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On April 20 2012 03:06 Praetorial wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 03:04 Mogwai wrote:On April 20 2012 03:00 HazMat wrote:
What are some mastery points that are complete trash? I wasn't around when the new masteries came out so I missed out a lot of the mathcrafting. I'm pretty sure I get 1 or 2 mastery points which are terrible and I don't even know it. Demolitionist, Honor Guard, Evasion, Vigor, Siege Commander, Mercenary, Bladed Armor, Scout, Sage I disagree with Demolitionist and Siege Commander. I have rushed towers at level one with a full team using those masteries, and as a consequence gotten a level one tower with little risk.
ok, good for you.
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Yay, i got in, started a game... and pre-game chat isn't working... Well, team managed an ok composition anyways, but, well, it's annoying -.-
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On April 20 2012 03:04 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 03:00 HazMat wrote:
What are some mastery points that are complete trash? I wasn't around when the new masteries came out so I missed out a lot of the mathcrafting. I'm pretty sure I get 1 or 2 mastery points which are terrible and I don't even know it. Demolitionist, Honor Guard, Evasion, Vigor, Siege Commander, Mercenary, Bladed Armor, Scout, Sage
this, but bladed armor is actually alright with certain jungle set-ups
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United States47024 Posts
On April 20 2012 03:00 HazMat wrote:
What are some mastery points that are complete trash? I wasn't around when the new masteries came out so I missed out a lot of the mathcrafting. I'm pretty sure I get 1 or 2 mastery points which are terrible and I don't even know it.
If you're in Offense, it's fairly straightforward. AD masteries for AD champs, and AP masteries for AP champs. There aren't really any "traps", and the only real debate is Havoc vs. Vampirism.
If you're in Defense, the most notable trap is that Honor Guard and Evasion are mathematically worse than the flat resist masteries until you're at something like 200+ in either resist. Practically speaking, this means you should just get the flat resist masteries instead (when Smash made a thread about this on the LoL forums, he got some weird bullshit from Phreak about "tank masteries supporting tanky kits blah blah blah" that didn't really address the issue at all). Also worth noting that the 30 HP from Veteran's Scars is extremely cost-effective.
With Utility...its hard to say because Utility isn't that good right now. The mana/lvl mastery is actually fairly decent, and the Spellvamp/Gold masteries are pretty poor. Other than that, not much to say.
On April 20 2012 03:04 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 03:00 HazMat wrote:
What are some mastery points that are complete trash? I wasn't around when the new masteries came out so I missed out a lot of the mathcrafting. I'm pretty sure I get 1 or 2 mastery points which are terrible and I don't even know it. Demolitionist, Honor Guard, Evasion, Vigor, Siege Commander, Mercenary, Bladed Armor, Scout, Sage
I think it's probably worthwhile for 1 person on your team to get the Siege Commander aura, but I don't even know what the base armor on towers is, so I can't say for certain.
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Why can't we get a patch on EU West where the servers aren't fucked for hours afterwards? I can't remember the last time EU West had a patch that didnt result in things being disabled/mass server lag etc. Riot are a rich company, please spend some money on some servers instead of just releasing boring heroes that have most of their abilities stolen from Dota. Bleh.
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On April 20 2012 02:59 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 02:51 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 20 2012 02:37 Slayer91 wrote:On April 20 2012 02:24 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 20 2012 02:17 Flicky wrote:On April 20 2012 01:44 Raynian wrote:On April 20 2012 01:24 Haemonculus wrote:
I've seen a lot of folks start totally forgoing armor pen runes in favor of AD runes. Why the change in attitude? I understand that for champs with solid AD ratios on spells it can be nice, but I always thought it was pretty proven that early game armor pen is significantly better than AD. And +15 AD late game is probably nothing compared to 25 armor pen.
On that topic, what're folks running on Trondamere these days? AD or arpen? I've always assloads of arpen, armor yellows, and scalin' mres blues. Two reasons, mostly. It makes it easier to last hit, and a good early game scales into a better late game. Also, the new masteries let you get 10% and 6 flat arpen. Someone crunched the math somewhere, and found out that arpen and flat AD runes are roughly equal now if you go 21 offense. I've also been told that it's to do with sustaining more with the 3% lifesteal mastery. Dat extra half a hit point in lifesteal REAL stroink. Lifesteal mastery is pretty much only good for stacking with other lifesteal. On its own its beyond terrible. That's a really stupid statement. You get the same benefit with 3%-->6% as with 12%-->15%. You just can't see the pretty green numbers with just 3% so you assume it's not there. It's like saying veteran scars is totally useless because it's only 80 hp it's only good if you stack it with other hp. It was more a statement that going for 15 ad because it make the 3% base lifesteal better is a pretty weak argument becuase the actual gain for doing it is negligible. And its really not all that stupid a statement: if you are not going to be getting any additional lifesteal you should probably look towards a different couple of points in the offense tree. 3% isnt enough to actually sustain you at any point in the game. Its like getting 3% crit and then never buying any more: sure it might help you, but its not actually going to enough to make the investment worthwhile in terms of what the stat actually SHOULD be used for. Alright. Let's say armour pen and ad averaged out over the whole game are exactly equal. That means ignore that one is better for first 5 minutes the next for the next 5 etc. That means getting more lifesteal is still SOMETHING. It has value. It's not that noticeable but it's still there. Last hitting is an even better argument because it's a solid gold value. Let's say you get 1.5% total damage from havoc or 3% lifesteal. EVERYONE takes 3 % lifesteal over havoc, right? But if you don't buy any lifesteal, then suddenly havoc is better? Bollocks. Lifesteal is always good. 3% isn't enough to sustain you? Sustain you through what? Sustain is sustain. If you run low on health you go back to base or buy more potions. Lots of people lane without any sustain. Some people have base sustain. It's 3% better than no sustain at all. Maybe it's as good as 10% if you have a couple of potions? What if every mastery was made 3x as good. 3% becomes 9%, suddenly it's a really good mastery? I don't understand. You're just being completely irrational on the basis that you don't really "feel" the 3% like you "feel" 12%. But if you were used to 48% you wouldn't "feel" 12% either.
What? Sustain is only sustain if it actually sustains you. If it cant do that, then you are better off spending the points elsewhere. It isnt a matter of "feeling." 3 hp if you have 100 damage isnt going to do anything for you. You would have to hit 33 autos to regain the amount of health from a single shot if someone else hits you with 100 damage.
The second point you bring up only REINFORCES what I am saying. If you are using pots to sustain yourself anyway, WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU INVEST IN LIFESTEAL. It has an opportunity cost. There ARE other options.
Numbers DO matter. Would you stop at 3% crit? Would you stop at 3% armor penetration?
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On April 20 2012 03:11 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 02:59 Slayer91 wrote:On April 20 2012 02:51 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 20 2012 02:37 Slayer91 wrote:On April 20 2012 02:24 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 20 2012 02:17 Flicky wrote:On April 20 2012 01:44 Raynian wrote:On April 20 2012 01:24 Haemonculus wrote:
I've seen a lot of folks start totally forgoing armor pen runes in favor of AD runes. Why the change in attitude? I understand that for champs with solid AD ratios on spells it can be nice, but I always thought it was pretty proven that early game armor pen is significantly better than AD. And +15 AD late game is probably nothing compared to 25 armor pen.
On that topic, what're folks running on Trondamere these days? AD or arpen? I've always assloads of arpen, armor yellows, and scalin' mres blues. Two reasons, mostly. It makes it easier to last hit, and a good early game scales into a better late game. Also, the new masteries let you get 10% and 6 flat arpen. Someone crunched the math somewhere, and found out that arpen and flat AD runes are roughly equal now if you go 21 offense. I've also been told that it's to do with sustaining more with the 3% lifesteal mastery. Dat extra half a hit point in lifesteal REAL stroink. Lifesteal mastery is pretty much only good for stacking with other lifesteal. On its own its beyond terrible. That's a really stupid statement. You get the same benefit with 3%-->6% as with 12%-->15%. You just can't see the pretty green numbers with just 3% so you assume it's not there. It's like saying veteran scars is totally useless because it's only 80 hp it's only good if you stack it with other hp. It was more a statement that going for 15 ad because it make the 3% base lifesteal better is a pretty weak argument becuase the actual gain for doing it is negligible. And its really not all that stupid a statement: if you are not going to be getting any additional lifesteal you should probably look towards a different couple of points in the offense tree. 3% isnt enough to actually sustain you at any point in the game. Its like getting 3% crit and then never buying any more: sure it might help you, but its not actually going to enough to make the investment worthwhile in terms of what the stat actually SHOULD be used for. Alright. Let's say armour pen and ad averaged out over the whole game are exactly equal. That means ignore that one is better for first 5 minutes the next for the next 5 etc. That means getting more lifesteal is still SOMETHING. It has value. It's not that noticeable but it's still there. Last hitting is an even better argument because it's a solid gold value. Let's say you get 1.5% total damage from havoc or 3% lifesteal. EVERYONE takes 3 % lifesteal over havoc, right? But if you don't buy any lifesteal, then suddenly havoc is better? Bollocks. Lifesteal is always good. 3% isn't enough to sustain you? Sustain you through what? Sustain is sustain. If you run low on health you go back to base or buy more potions. Lots of people lane without any sustain. Some people have base sustain. It's 3% better than no sustain at all. Maybe it's as good as 10% if you have a couple of potions? What if every mastery was made 3x as good. 3% becomes 9%, suddenly it's a really good mastery? I don't understand. You're just being completely irrational on the basis that you don't really "feel" the 3% like you "feel" 12%. But if you were used to 48% you wouldn't "feel" 12% either. What? Sustain is only sustain if it actually sustains you. If it cant do that, then you are better off spending the points elsewhere. It isnt a matter of "feeling." 3 hp if you have 100 damage isnt going to do anything for you. You would have to hit 33 autos to regain the amount of health from a single shot if someone else hits you with 100 damage. The second point you bring up only REINFORCES what I am saying. If you are using pots to sustain yourself anyway, WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU INVEST IN LIFESTEAL. It has an opportunity cost. There ARE other options. Numbers DO matter. Would you stop at 3% crit? Would you stop at 3% armor penetration?
What's your tradeoff for 3% Lifesteal from masteries?
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On April 20 2012 03:11 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 02:59 Slayer91 wrote:On April 20 2012 02:51 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 20 2012 02:37 Slayer91 wrote:On April 20 2012 02:24 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 20 2012 02:17 Flicky wrote:On April 20 2012 01:44 Raynian wrote:On April 20 2012 01:24 Haemonculus wrote:
I've seen a lot of folks start totally forgoing armor pen runes in favor of AD runes. Why the change in attitude? I understand that for champs with solid AD ratios on spells it can be nice, but I always thought it was pretty proven that early game armor pen is significantly better than AD. And +15 AD late game is probably nothing compared to 25 armor pen.
On that topic, what're folks running on Trondamere these days? AD or arpen? I've always assloads of arpen, armor yellows, and scalin' mres blues. Two reasons, mostly. It makes it easier to last hit, and a good early game scales into a better late game. Also, the new masteries let you get 10% and 6 flat arpen. Someone crunched the math somewhere, and found out that arpen and flat AD runes are roughly equal now if you go 21 offense. I've also been told that it's to do with sustaining more with the 3% lifesteal mastery. Dat extra half a hit point in lifesteal REAL stroink. Lifesteal mastery is pretty much only good for stacking with other lifesteal. On its own its beyond terrible. That's a really stupid statement. You get the same benefit with 3%-->6% as with 12%-->15%. You just can't see the pretty green numbers with just 3% so you assume it's not there. It's like saying veteran scars is totally useless because it's only 80 hp it's only good if you stack it with other hp. It was more a statement that going for 15 ad because it make the 3% base lifesteal better is a pretty weak argument becuase the actual gain for doing it is negligible. And its really not all that stupid a statement: if you are not going to be getting any additional lifesteal you should probably look towards a different couple of points in the offense tree. 3% isnt enough to actually sustain you at any point in the game. Its like getting 3% crit and then never buying any more: sure it might help you, but its not actually going to enough to make the investment worthwhile in terms of what the stat actually SHOULD be used for. Alright. Let's say armour pen and ad averaged out over the whole game are exactly equal. That means ignore that one is better for first 5 minutes the next for the next 5 etc. That means getting more lifesteal is still SOMETHING. It has value. It's not that noticeable but it's still there. Last hitting is an even better argument because it's a solid gold value. Let's say you get 1.5% total damage from havoc or 3% lifesteal. EVERYONE takes 3 % lifesteal over havoc, right? But if you don't buy any lifesteal, then suddenly havoc is better? Bollocks. Lifesteal is always good. 3% isn't enough to sustain you? Sustain you through what? Sustain is sustain. If you run low on health you go back to base or buy more potions. Lots of people lane without any sustain. Some people have base sustain. It's 3% better than no sustain at all. Maybe it's as good as 10% if you have a couple of potions? What if every mastery was made 3x as good. 3% becomes 9%, suddenly it's a really good mastery? I don't understand. You're just being completely irrational on the basis that you don't really "feel" the 3% like you "feel" 12%. But if you were used to 48% you wouldn't "feel" 12% either. What? Sustain is only sustain if it actually sustains you. If it cant do that, then you are better off spending the points elsewhere. It isnt a matter of "feeling." 3 hp if you have 100 damage isnt going to do anything for you. You would have to hit 33 autos to regain the amount of health from a single shot if someone else hits you with 100 damage. The second point you bring up only REINFORCES what I am saying. If you are using pots to sustain yourself anyway, WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU INVEST IN LIFESTEAL. It has an opportunity cost. There ARE other options. Numbers DO matter. Would you stop at 3% crit? Would you stop at 3% armor penetration?
You're right numbers do matter, but the problem when you're arguing against the lifesteal mastery is that you're arguing against 3 hp from 100 damage in order to skill in doing 1 extra HP per hundred damage since Havoc is the only competing mastery except in some very isolated cases.
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On April 20 2012 03:11 Nebula wrote:
Why can't we get a patch on EU West where the servers aren't fucked for hours afterwards? I can't remember the last time EU West had a patch that didnt result in things being disabled/mass server lag etc. Riot are a rich company, please spend some money on some servers instead of just releasing boring heroes that have most of their abilities stolen from Dota. Bleh.
The last patch the servers were fine lol, it's not really the patch the servers have been shitting themselves the last 1-2weeks already.
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On April 20 2012 03:15 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 03:11 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 20 2012 02:59 Slayer91 wrote:On April 20 2012 02:51 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 20 2012 02:37 Slayer91 wrote:On April 20 2012 02:24 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 20 2012 02:17 Flicky wrote:On April 20 2012 01:44 Raynian wrote:On April 20 2012 01:24 Haemonculus wrote:
I've seen a lot of folks start totally forgoing armor pen runes in favor of AD runes. Why the change in attitude? I understand that for champs with solid AD ratios on spells it can be nice, but I always thought it was pretty proven that early game armor pen is significantly better than AD. And +15 AD late game is probably nothing compared to 25 armor pen.
On that topic, what're folks running on Trondamere these days? AD or arpen? I've always assloads of arpen, armor yellows, and scalin' mres blues. Two reasons, mostly. It makes it easier to last hit, and a good early game scales into a better late game. Also, the new masteries let you get 10% and 6 flat arpen. Someone crunched the math somewhere, and found out that arpen and flat AD runes are roughly equal now if you go 21 offense. I've also been told that it's to do with sustaining more with the 3% lifesteal mastery. Dat extra half a hit point in lifesteal REAL stroink. Lifesteal mastery is pretty much only good for stacking with other lifesteal. On its own its beyond terrible. That's a really stupid statement. You get the same benefit with 3%-->6% as with 12%-->15%. You just can't see the pretty green numbers with just 3% so you assume it's not there. It's like saying veteran scars is totally useless because it's only 80 hp it's only good if you stack it with other hp. It was more a statement that going for 15 ad because it make the 3% base lifesteal better is a pretty weak argument becuase the actual gain for doing it is negligible. And its really not all that stupid a statement: if you are not going to be getting any additional lifesteal you should probably look towards a different couple of points in the offense tree. 3% isnt enough to actually sustain you at any point in the game. Its like getting 3% crit and then never buying any more: sure it might help you, but its not actually going to enough to make the investment worthwhile in terms of what the stat actually SHOULD be used for. Alright. Let's say armour pen and ad averaged out over the whole game are exactly equal. That means ignore that one is better for first 5 minutes the next for the next 5 etc. That means getting more lifesteal is still SOMETHING. It has value. It's not that noticeable but it's still there. Last hitting is an even better argument because it's a solid gold value. Let's say you get 1.5% total damage from havoc or 3% lifesteal. EVERYONE takes 3 % lifesteal over havoc, right? But if you don't buy any lifesteal, then suddenly havoc is better? Bollocks. Lifesteal is always good. 3% isn't enough to sustain you? Sustain you through what? Sustain is sustain. If you run low on health you go back to base or buy more potions. Lots of people lane without any sustain. Some people have base sustain. It's 3% better than no sustain at all. Maybe it's as good as 10% if you have a couple of potions? What if every mastery was made 3x as good. 3% becomes 9%, suddenly it's a really good mastery? I don't understand. You're just being completely irrational on the basis that you don't really "feel" the 3% like you "feel" 12%. But if you were used to 48% you wouldn't "feel" 12% either. What? Sustain is only sustain if it actually sustains you. If it cant do that, then you are better off spending the points elsewhere. It isnt a matter of "feeling." 3 hp if you have 100 damage isnt going to do anything for you. You would have to hit 33 autos to regain the amount of health from a single shot if someone else hits you with 100 damage. The second point you bring up only REINFORCES what I am saying. If you are using pots to sustain yourself anyway, WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU INVEST IN LIFESTEAL. It has an opportunity cost. There ARE other options. Numbers DO matter. Would you stop at 3% crit? Would you stop at 3% armor penetration? What's your tradeoff for 3% Lifesteal from masteries?
Havoc, extra points in Butcher. Hell, if you are playing someone who isnt gonna be getting lifesteal, even Sorcery might be a good option.
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On April 20 2012 02:20 wussleeQ wrote:NO YORICK IS NOT AN ASSHOLE. STOP ALL THE HATE. AD NIDALEE IS THE ASSHOLE. No, really, I hate nidalee so much. I don't think I've ever won a lane vs her. Sure she's supposed to do a lot less late game but at 6 she's just able to do so much damage and effectively kick me out of lane within a couple minutes. I feel like my hate for her though is the fact that she's impossible to catch and does too much damage to trade with  .Anyone have tips?
The secret is to stomp her so hard pre-6 that post 6 she is forced to farm, rather than participate in team objectives (like blues, and dragons) then in late game you should scale better than her.
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On April 20 2012 03:17 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 03:15 spinesheath wrote:On April 20 2012 03:11 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 20 2012 02:59 Slayer91 wrote:On April 20 2012 02:51 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 20 2012 02:37 Slayer91 wrote:On April 20 2012 02:24 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 20 2012 02:17 Flicky wrote:On April 20 2012 01:44 Raynian wrote:On April 20 2012 01:24 Haemonculus wrote:
I've seen a lot of folks start totally forgoing armor pen runes in favor of AD runes. Why the change in attitude? I understand that for champs with solid AD ratios on spells it can be nice, but I always thought it was pretty proven that early game armor pen is significantly better than AD. And +15 AD late game is probably nothing compared to 25 armor pen.
On that topic, what're folks running on Trondamere these days? AD or arpen? I've always assloads of arpen, armor yellows, and scalin' mres blues. Two reasons, mostly. It makes it easier to last hit, and a good early game scales into a better late game. Also, the new masteries let you get 10% and 6 flat arpen. Someone crunched the math somewhere, and found out that arpen and flat AD runes are roughly equal now if you go 21 offense. I've also been told that it's to do with sustaining more with the 3% lifesteal mastery. Dat extra half a hit point in lifesteal REAL stroink. Lifesteal mastery is pretty much only good for stacking with other lifesteal. On its own its beyond terrible. That's a really stupid statement. You get the same benefit with 3%-->6% as with 12%-->15%. You just can't see the pretty green numbers with just 3% so you assume it's not there. It's like saying veteran scars is totally useless because it's only 80 hp it's only good if you stack it with other hp. It was more a statement that going for 15 ad because it make the 3% base lifesteal better is a pretty weak argument becuase the actual gain for doing it is negligible. And its really not all that stupid a statement: if you are not going to be getting any additional lifesteal you should probably look towards a different couple of points in the offense tree. 3% isnt enough to actually sustain you at any point in the game. Its like getting 3% crit and then never buying any more: sure it might help you, but its not actually going to enough to make the investment worthwhile in terms of what the stat actually SHOULD be used for. Alright. Let's say armour pen and ad averaged out over the whole game are exactly equal. That means ignore that one is better for first 5 minutes the next for the next 5 etc. That means getting more lifesteal is still SOMETHING. It has value. It's not that noticeable but it's still there. Last hitting is an even better argument because it's a solid gold value. Let's say you get 1.5% total damage from havoc or 3% lifesteal. EVERYONE takes 3 % lifesteal over havoc, right? But if you don't buy any lifesteal, then suddenly havoc is better? Bollocks. Lifesteal is always good. 3% isn't enough to sustain you? Sustain you through what? Sustain is sustain. If you run low on health you go back to base or buy more potions. Lots of people lane without any sustain. Some people have base sustain. It's 3% better than no sustain at all. Maybe it's as good as 10% if you have a couple of potions? What if every mastery was made 3x as good. 3% becomes 9%, suddenly it's a really good mastery? I don't understand. You're just being completely irrational on the basis that you don't really "feel" the 3% like you "feel" 12%. But if you were used to 48% you wouldn't "feel" 12% either. What? Sustain is only sustain if it actually sustains you. If it cant do that, then you are better off spending the points elsewhere. It isnt a matter of "feeling." 3 hp if you have 100 damage isnt going to do anything for you. You would have to hit 33 autos to regain the amount of health from a single shot if someone else hits you with 100 damage. The second point you bring up only REINFORCES what I am saying. If you are using pots to sustain yourself anyway, WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU INVEST IN LIFESTEAL. It has an opportunity cost. There ARE other options. Numbers DO matter. Would you stop at 3% crit? Would you stop at 3% armor penetration? What's your tradeoff for 3% Lifesteal from masteries? Havoc, extra points in Butcher. Hell, if you are playing someone who isnt gonna be getting lifesteal, even Sorcery might be a good option.
And how is 1.5% more damage better than 3% lifesteal?
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On April 20 2012 03:20 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 03:17 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 20 2012 03:15 spinesheath wrote:On April 20 2012 03:11 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 20 2012 02:59 Slayer91 wrote:On April 20 2012 02:51 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 20 2012 02:37 Slayer91 wrote:On April 20 2012 02:24 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 20 2012 02:17 Flicky wrote:On April 20 2012 01:44 Raynian wrote:
[quote]
Two reasons, mostly. It makes it easier to last hit, and a good early game scales into a better late game. Also, the new masteries let you get 10% and 6 flat arpen. Someone crunched the math somewhere, and found out that arpen and flat AD runes are roughly equal now if you go 21 offense. I've also been told that it's to do with sustaining more with the 3% lifesteal mastery. Dat extra half a hit point in lifesteal REAL stroink. Lifesteal mastery is pretty much only good for stacking with other lifesteal. On its own its beyond terrible. That's a really stupid statement. You get the same benefit with 3%-->6% as with 12%-->15%. You just can't see the pretty green numbers with just 3% so you assume it's not there. It's like saying veteran scars is totally useless because it's only 80 hp it's only good if you stack it with other hp. It was more a statement that going for 15 ad because it make the 3% base lifesteal better is a pretty weak argument becuase the actual gain for doing it is negligible. And its really not all that stupid a statement: if you are not going to be getting any additional lifesteal you should probably look towards a different couple of points in the offense tree. 3% isnt enough to actually sustain you at any point in the game. Its like getting 3% crit and then never buying any more: sure it might help you, but its not actually going to enough to make the investment worthwhile in terms of what the stat actually SHOULD be used for. Alright. Let's say armour pen and ad averaged out over the whole game are exactly equal. That means ignore that one is better for first 5 minutes the next for the next 5 etc. That means getting more lifesteal is still SOMETHING. It has value. It's not that noticeable but it's still there. Last hitting is an even better argument because it's a solid gold value. Let's say you get 1.5% total damage from havoc or 3% lifesteal. EVERYONE takes 3 % lifesteal over havoc, right? But if you don't buy any lifesteal, then suddenly havoc is better? Bollocks. Lifesteal is always good. 3% isn't enough to sustain you? Sustain you through what? Sustain is sustain. If you run low on health you go back to base or buy more potions. Lots of people lane without any sustain. Some people have base sustain. It's 3% better than no sustain at all. Maybe it's as good as 10% if you have a couple of potions? What if every mastery was made 3x as good. 3% becomes 9%, suddenly it's a really good mastery? I don't understand. You're just being completely irrational on the basis that you don't really "feel" the 3% like you "feel" 12%. But if you were used to 48% you wouldn't "feel" 12% either. What? Sustain is only sustain if it actually sustains you. If it cant do that, then you are better off spending the points elsewhere. It isnt a matter of "feeling." 3 hp if you have 100 damage isnt going to do anything for you. You would have to hit 33 autos to regain the amount of health from a single shot if someone else hits you with 100 damage. The second point you bring up only REINFORCES what I am saying. If you are using pots to sustain yourself anyway, WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU INVEST IN LIFESTEAL. It has an opportunity cost. There ARE other options. Numbers DO matter. Would you stop at 3% crit? Would you stop at 3% armor penetration? What's your tradeoff for 3% Lifesteal from masteries? Havoc, extra points in Butcher. Hell, if you are playing someone who isnt gonna be getting lifesteal, even Sorcery might be a good option. And how is 1.5% more damage better than 3% lifesteal?
Because, instead of getting ~8hp5 with 100 ad(on janglers atleast), you'll do a grant total of 101.5 damage instead.
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On April 20 2012 03:20 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 03:17 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 20 2012 03:15 spinesheath wrote:On April 20 2012 03:11 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 20 2012 02:59 Slayer91 wrote:On April 20 2012 02:51 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 20 2012 02:37 Slayer91 wrote:On April 20 2012 02:24 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 20 2012 02:17 Flicky wrote:On April 20 2012 01:44 Raynian wrote:
[quote]
Two reasons, mostly. It makes it easier to last hit, and a good early game scales into a better late game. Also, the new masteries let you get 10% and 6 flat arpen. Someone crunched the math somewhere, and found out that arpen and flat AD runes are roughly equal now if you go 21 offense. I've also been told that it's to do with sustaining more with the 3% lifesteal mastery. Dat extra half a hit point in lifesteal REAL stroink. Lifesteal mastery is pretty much only good for stacking with other lifesteal. On its own its beyond terrible. That's a really stupid statement. You get the same benefit with 3%-->6% as with 12%-->15%. You just can't see the pretty green numbers with just 3% so you assume it's not there. It's like saying veteran scars is totally useless because it's only 80 hp it's only good if you stack it with other hp. It was more a statement that going for 15 ad because it make the 3% base lifesteal better is a pretty weak argument becuase the actual gain for doing it is negligible. And its really not all that stupid a statement: if you are not going to be getting any additional lifesteal you should probably look towards a different couple of points in the offense tree. 3% isnt enough to actually sustain you at any point in the game. Its like getting 3% crit and then never buying any more: sure it might help you, but its not actually going to enough to make the investment worthwhile in terms of what the stat actually SHOULD be used for. Alright. Let's say armour pen and ad averaged out over the whole game are exactly equal. That means ignore that one is better for first 5 minutes the next for the next 5 etc. That means getting more lifesteal is still SOMETHING. It has value. It's not that noticeable but it's still there. Last hitting is an even better argument because it's a solid gold value. Let's say you get 1.5% total damage from havoc or 3% lifesteal. EVERYONE takes 3 % lifesteal over havoc, right? But if you don't buy any lifesteal, then suddenly havoc is better? Bollocks. Lifesteal is always good. 3% isn't enough to sustain you? Sustain you through what? Sustain is sustain. If you run low on health you go back to base or buy more potions. Lots of people lane without any sustain. Some people have base sustain. It's 3% better than no sustain at all. Maybe it's as good as 10% if you have a couple of potions? What if every mastery was made 3x as good. 3% becomes 9%, suddenly it's a really good mastery? I don't understand. You're just being completely irrational on the basis that you don't really "feel" the 3% like you "feel" 12%. But if you were used to 48% you wouldn't "feel" 12% either. What? Sustain is only sustain if it actually sustains you. If it cant do that, then you are better off spending the points elsewhere. It isnt a matter of "feeling." 3 hp if you have 100 damage isnt going to do anything for you. You would have to hit 33 autos to regain the amount of health from a single shot if someone else hits you with 100 damage. The second point you bring up only REINFORCES what I am saying. If you are using pots to sustain yourself anyway, WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU INVEST IN LIFESTEAL. It has an opportunity cost. There ARE other options. Numbers DO matter. Would you stop at 3% crit? Would you stop at 3% armor penetration? What's your tradeoff for 3% Lifesteal from masteries? Havoc, extra points in Butcher. Hell, if you are playing someone who isnt gonna be getting lifesteal, even Sorcery might be a good option. And how is 1.5% more damage better than 3% lifesteal?
Because extra damage will always be able to do what it is intended to do. Lifesteal depends on the total amount that you have.
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EPT
