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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Also about the "too hard to kill" champs, have you ever been 4 item AD carry? Good luck having trouble killing anything. Poppy also not UP. You just stack armour and abuse passive and farm top. People tried her and did well, just nobody serious enough to bring her out in a tourney YET. Shyvana OP? Everyones abandoned her for mundo. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
Udyr: Too much sustain, unkillable lategame, too much damage from someone so tanky. See lee sin. Personally I feel like late game udyr is not really strong.Udyr rules the early and mid game but like a lot of bruisers he just falls off and becomes food for ads that kite you easy in teamfights. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
I was just making some progress towards my +100 W/L goal and now everyone goes and talks about Viktor, making me want to start playing him again, even though i'm terrible at him. Just fucking great. I love him so much BUT I'M SO BAAAAAD | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On March 27 2012 22:54 57 Corvette wrote: While Kennen is powerful, He also has quite a few counters I'd like to know which ones (in all seriousness; he's often a pain to lane against, and always useful as long as he gets either one of Zhonya/Rylai/WotA). Regarding Viktor I don't find him boring. On the contrary, I love how rewarding his E can be, due to its casting mechanic. The way he plays on positioning with W, E and the threat his ultimate creates also appeals to me. I'll give you that he's somewhat to Xerath in that when his ultimate is down he loses a lot of damage, but that has more to do with his range+cd than anything (which aren't a problem for Xerath conversely, between a 4s cd Q and his siegemode). Even without his ultimate, a Viktor with rylai and some cdr can be a pain to chase because of E's range and W, as long as he has the mana to keep on casting while running. He's got a lot more personality to me than GP (which I'd subjectively define as a parrrley crit and the oranges meme), Brand or Yorrick, for example. And I'd want to like Brand. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
This character CANNOT be denied XP or farm, he CANNOT be useless in teamfights if played well, but he can still roflstomp half of the classic solo lanes. Kennen is OP in that he will NEVER be a bad pick. | ||
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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
You could also play tristana/gragas/lee/janna and just knock him away when he ults. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On a serious note, a rumble player told me rumble shits on kennen, don't play rumble though. | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
Few questions: why is Veigar iffy? Why is Ryze considered perfectly balanced? How is Irelia going to be UP when she has 75 frickin true damage per hit? Her nerfs were reactive to the amount of play she has received in Hannover. Not sure about Ahri either, what would you do to her? I raised that question in her champion thread but got no reply, I still think you can't balance her based on her numbers, because what really makes her so strong is her kit in general. Poppy is viable right now, hey there 32 armor runepage, why don't you like her? Also, why is Teemo UP because he gets outshined in his respective roles but, say, Malzahar isn't? Not trying to hate, I just want to get a discussion going.  | ||
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ihasaKAROT
Netherlands4730 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On March 27 2012 23:08 Slayer91 wrote: Some of these opinions are extremely uninformed. TF underpowered? Don't make me laugh. He's a very strong AP carry used by all the top teams if they have an AP that plays him. Yorick OP? Show some evidence. Caitlyn weak lategame? No shit, she used to be the best ranged ad because she denied enemy AD. She reaches lategame 10 minutes faster than enemy AD. Also about the "too hard to kill" champs, have you ever been 4 item AD carry? Good luck having trouble killing anything. Poppy also not UP. You just stack armour and abuse passive and farm top. People tried her and did well, just nobody serious enough to bring her out in a tourney YET. Shyvana OP? Everyones abandoned her for mundo. Except for M5... Still not convinced Yorick's OP either - he harasses the crap out of laning phase but he doesnt bring what other toplaners bring to teamfights. Sure, cloning the carry is nice, but most top laners will bring a lot more with the same amount of farm - meaning yorick needs to win his lane convincingly to not get outscaled. Poppy might not be UP, but she's still sitting down there in the 'never picked' tier - even if it's for superficial reasons. I seriously am about to throw together a data collection utility so I can put together pokemon style tier lists. None of the subjective bullcrap, just ban & pick usage statistics to rank champs into tiers. (seperating 5s from soloqueue, of course.) Interest in this idea? | ||
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Bwaaaa
Australia969 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On March 27 2012 17:25 spinesheath wrote: Only if you want to play 4+ months without a single proper runepage. There's a lot more runes that cost 205 or 410 IP than runes that cost 820+ IP, too... Though it was pretty nice having a dodge quint that sat around and did nothing until I got 2k IP from it. I just used the recombiner to burn off the T1 runes that I used while I was a noob. Telling noobs to never buy runes til they can use T3 is dumb. T1 runes are super cheap and have at least 50% effectiveness. BTW, there's 98 types of runes. I'm not about to figure out how many of those are useful, but it isn't a healthy fraction of them. Edit: I lied. Counting generously, there's around 27 runes that are at least 410 IP and are at least situationally useful... FCD of useful | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On March 27 2012 22:35 57 Corvette wrote: I've decided to make a list of the champions I believe are balanced currently. That list then evolved into listing the characters that I thing need minor/major buffs/nerfs and included every champion. I plan to post it on reddit, but I want to post it here first to get some criticism first. + Show Spoiler + Balanced Champions: I am not going to comment on all of these, but I can say a blanket statement that these champions are what I would call balanced. They are not too powerful, and not to underwhelming. Ahri Akali Alistar Amumu Annie Ashe Blitzcrank Brand Cassio Chogath Corki Mundo Ezreal (Iffy) Fiora Fizz Galio Gangplank Garen Gragas Graves Janna Jarvan Jax Karthus Kassadin Katarina Kayle Kennen Kogmaw Leblanc Leona Lux (Iffy on this one) Malphite Malzahar Maokai MF Morde Nasus Nautilus Nidalee Nocturne Nunu Orianna Pantheon Rammus Renekton Riven Rumble (Iffy) Ryze Sejuani (Iffy, shes just CC no damage) Shen Singed Sion Sivir Skarner Sona Soraka Swain (Iffy, see Anivia) Talon Taric Tristana Trundle Tryndamere Twisted Fate Urgot Vayne Vegiar (Iffy) Vlad Volibear Wukong Xerath Ziggs Zilean Champions that need to be slightly Buffed/Nerfed Ahri: I was reluctant to put Ahri on this list, but after more thought she is a little too powerful. She is similar to Morgana, except she is less gank-proof when her ultimate is on cooldown. Anivia: After the bluebuff changes, Anivia needs a little buffing. While she does still have great creep clearing and her combo still hurts, She has a harder time fully contributing to teamfights now that she can't keep her ultimate up for as long with bluebuff. She needs a few QOL Changes and the scaling mana cost on her ultimate needs to be changed for her to be balanced (This is all imo, don't hate me for being wrong if I am). Caityln: She simply needs a better lategame (With a slightly weaker earlygame to compensate). If she doesn't screw over the opponent in lane, she doesn't contribute much lategame except for her execute-ish ultimate and her range advantage (Which gets erased lategame by Kogmaw and Tristana.) Every other ranged AD carry has some way of heavily contributing to teamfights (Except vayne, but more on that later), and Caitlyn can do nothing but lay down useless traps and autoattack. Fiddlesticks: The jungle changes a while back really hit fiddle hard. While his ult did get buffed semi-recently, he is still underwhelming if the opponents aren't dumb an know how to ward. I don't know what can really be changed on him to make him balanced, maybe give him a new passive or something, but for now Fiddle is just going to have to sit just below the average line. Heimerdinger: He gets shut down way too easily. His main damage source are his turrets (ofc he had rockets and slow-moving grenade, but you can't use that efficently to farm without blue), and anyone that outranges those turrets (Basically everyone that isn't melee) can straight up stop heimer from farming in lane. He also has trouble contributing in teamfights if he doesn't have his turrets available. Its another case of not knowing how to buff him however, doing much with the turrets might be OP, but for now he is UP in my eyes. Irelia: Those nerfs really hurt. I don't know how they can justify nerfing Irelia and leave other heavy sustainers like WW, Udyr and Yorick as they stand. She was pretty balanced before, RIOT went fucking around with stuff that wasn't broken, and what a surprise, they broke it. Revert the nerfs to her W and I'l call her balanced. Karma: She is apparently getting a rework, so lets see where that takes us. Lee Sin: Now we get into a few champions that are a bit above balanced. Lee just has too much of every category. He has damage, tankyness, survivability and burst. He is just too good at too many roles. I don't know if RIOT doesn't nerf him because they are afraid of Jessie Perring, but Lee in his current state is just a little too powerful in too many roles. Lulu:Can't comment, new champion and I've never played her. Most people I have seen using her suck. Master Yi: He has somewhat of the Xin Zhao syndrome. He is extremely powerful at low elo/solo queue, but in high elo and arranged 5s, he becomes nearly useless (unless he gets fed). I know he is one of the first characters released and he has been around a while, but he still isn't on the balanced line. Morgana: Too easy for her power level. She is very forgiving with her black shield, can stay in lane forever with her innate sustain, and is nearly gankproof thanks to her Q and R. She has the same problem as Lee sin, she is too powerful in too many roles, and she is easyish to play to boot. Lower the sustain from her passive or change her incredible farming abilities. Olaf: Those buffs made him quite strong. He is a tanky DPS that has burst similar to an assassin. Thats just not cool. Plus you have to factor in his true damage (The recoil damage is a good idea), and his crazy sustain lategame. Not so much the lee sin syndrome as much as lategame he will kill your carry and there is nothing you can do about it. Poppy: Needs to farm, but can't. She needs some way to farm because in the current meta, most AD top laners can just bully her out of lane time after time and deny her the critical farm she needs. Of course, when she gets the farm she becomes pretty damn scary, but against a decent player the poppy can't do anything to keep up and farm. Shaco: Abuses stupidity. Champions that abuse stupidity are extremely hard to balance. He can either be a nightmare or free kills depending on if the opponents know how to deal with him. Xin Zhao syndrome too, kills at low elo, becomes easily counterable at high elo/smart elo. Shyvana: Nearly balanced, but a little more on the overpowered side. She just has too much mobility with her W. Nerf the movespeed on her W a bit and she will be balanced imo. Teemo: Pretty useless aside from counterpicking certain tops. It may be just because he doesn't fit the current meta, but right now Teemo is underwhelming. He sucks as ranged ad (No attack steroid, low range), his AP role is heavily outshined and the only thing he is good for is pissing off the opponents. Twitch: STEALTh REMAKE WHERE Udyr: Too much sustain, unkillable lategame, too much damage from someone so tanky. See lee sin. Viktor: According to the SSoVP, "Don't pick viktor, he is useless and can't kill anything". Warwick See Udyr or Lee Sin. Also can't kill him in lane. Xin Zhao See Master yi. No way to escape after committing to a fight, kill or be killed. Yorick See Udyr/Lee/WW, although he is slightly less tanky than the others. Champions that need to be removed until they are remade/balanced Eve. This post makes Mundo sad. | ||
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Shauni
4077 Posts
On March 27 2012 23:25 57 Corvette wrote: Off the top of my head, Ryze kills kennen hard, Shen should beat him toplane (somehow), Xerath, Wukong, a few others I can't remember. You could also play tristana/gragas/lee/janna and just knock him away when he ults. what top laner doesnt rumble destroy? i ban rumble every fucking game | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On March 27 2012 23:52 Shauni wrote: what top laner doesnt rumble destroy? i ban rumble every fucking game Shen, Irelia, Riven, WW, WuKing. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
not Irelia though, especially after those nerfs, Rumble's just gonna light that bitch on fire. | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On March 27 2012 23:57 Mogwai wrote: Udyr and Lee Sin too. not Irelia though, especially after those nerfs, Rumble's just gonna light that bitch on fire. Oh yeah, haven't played the MU after the nerf. I would have never engaged on him without W in the first place and basically ALWAYS sat at tower, so I was thinking it might still work, but mhm, if you say it doesn't, it probably doesn't. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On March 27 2012 23:40 Bwaaaa wrote: Is anyone else watching saint dominate with mumu on stream? lol, yeah, goes 9/2/18 and lowers his KDA on Mumu in ranked. o.o | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
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