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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! |
On April 14 2012 07:58 SnK-Arcbound wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 07:50 Tryndamere wrote:On April 14 2012 07:23 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On April 14 2012 07:14 kongoline wrote:On April 14 2012 06:40 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 14 2012 06:35 TwoToneTerran wrote:On April 14 2012 06:32 Treadmill wrote:
People are waaaay too goddamn worried about who counters who, who wins what lanes vs who. Yeah, there are bad and good matchups for champions but even with the best players it usually comes down to relative skill. No it doesn't. Certain champions are implicitly extremely good against others regardless of your skill. I'm a crappy 1500 player and I could beat Smash in malph vs pantheon. Knowing appropriate counters is incredibly important. Half of games are won in champ select. No, you would lose that. Counters DO make a difference, but skill is a HUGE determining factor. Hell, GP, for example, is a champ who has pretty much NO good matchups top, but someone who knows how to play GP can make GP look like the most overpowered champ in the game because of how hard skill plays into his matchups. Also: We now have the undercard for our fidds vs vlad matchup. Actually, screw that, Im making this the main event and fidds vlad the undercard. is gp so bad nowadays? thats saddens me cuz its my favourite champ to play :< Fuck that. Get a full crit page and rape your lane. BTW how many q type things on champions can crit? I know vayne q bonus can crit, and cait passive can crit, and gp q can crit. LOL, GP is a bad pick now because he is not as strong as before. Plus, as soon as you pick GP the other team will pick Pantheon and super hard counter your ass out of the lane. It doesn't matter if you use full crit page or not, you will get raped sideways by a Pantheon noob. Pantheon will run when he takes 200 damage in the first second of the fight. Now think if pantheon has crit o_O also.
GP can't outdamage pantheon at all. Especially since his passive blocks GP's Parrley.
Pantheon Q has a lower cooldown, does more damage, has better scaling, and costs less mana. That's ignoring the fact that Pantheon has 100% crit chance on targets under 15% hp (works on Q). Pantheon has higher burst earlier so I don't think GP can make pantheon run.
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On April 14 2012 07:46 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 07:39 Ryuu314 wrote:On April 14 2012 07:31 overt wrote:On April 14 2012 07:03 Zenithal wrote:
I know I missed the AD discussion a few pages back, so I'll make this a general question instead: if you play a champion that's not considered "good", is it better to continue to play that champ as best you can or learn someone new who is a good pick?
For example, I play Ezreal a lot. People say he's just a worse Corki, who even himself doesn't see a lot of play thanks to Vayne/Kog/Ashe/Graves. I feel that I'm a pretty good Ezreal player, but that doesn't amount to much and it doesn't do my team a lot of favors when I pick him over someone else. (He's godlike in Dominion though, mobility and poke are kings there.) Should I focus on playing Ez, or should I pick someone like Kog, who in the end is more useful to the team? Ezreal has advantages over Corki. His lane phase for example is a lot stronger at early levels. Like, Corki pre-6 is actually pretty weak especially when compared to ADs like Graves or Sivir or Kog who are really strong pre and post 6. Ez can compete with those champions pre-6 though. Granted, by the time like level 6 or 7 rolls around Corki probably surpasses Ezreal but Ez can play aggressive earlier in lane than Corki can. Ez and Corki are super strong in solo queue. You don't have to rely on teammates as much as someone like Kog does. You can also make more mistakes as Ez/Corki because of the fact that they have the two best escapes of other AD carries. Corki was like one of the most played ADs at Hannover but his laning isn't as good as Kog or Graves or Caitlyn. Ez got seen at Hannover too. Regardless, every single AD carry in the game is viable and if you're good with an AD carry you can farm just fine bot lane against pretty much any match up. edit: While you can farm just fine in solo queue there are definitely match ups where you have to play like a pussy. But I don't think there are many lanes where any AD carry in solo queue just can't farm in bot lane. I don't buy that Ez's lane phase is better than Corki. If you can dodge Ez skillshots, which is very easy, Ez loses out on a ton of dps. Corki has a stronger passive and his spells (Q+E) do almost as much damage and are much harder to dodge. It's only better super early because Corki's harass is basically just his Q which doesn't have the range of Ez Q and Corki's Q is probably the least mana efficient harass of every AD carry at early levels. You can literally get off like 3-4 Qs early before going oom. Because of this Corki often has to play really passive at early levels which is why he has a tough time against champions like Graves who can harass much more efficiently with spells or champions like Kog/Cait/Ashe who can get free autos on him. It isn't even about being able to harass or poke with Q, it's the added benefit that because you can spam Q so much if you end up being zoned as Ez you can still use Q to get farm. Corki has to wait until level 6 for his long range mana efficient farm tool. Ez can play aggressive at level 1 because if he ends up on the bad side of a trade he can still use Q to farm efficiently. Corki can't and thus usually plays pretty passive early levels. I don't think Ez's laning overall is better than Corki's, but pre-6 Corki is pretty bad at lane phase. Once he hits his 6 he gets a lot better but if your opponent is good they can make your pre-6 a nightmare as Corki.
No, Corki's harass is Q+auto which most definitely will outdamage Ez's harass unless Corki is stupid and is standing in front of minions.
When you harass with Corki you don't just spam Q. You abuse your strong autoattacks in conjunction with your Q to out damage the enemy.
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On April 14 2012 06:45 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 05:10 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 04:09 TheYango wrote:On April 14 2012 03:47 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 03:24 iCanada wrote:On April 14 2012 03:18 randomKo_Orean wrote:On April 14 2012 03:07 Shifft wrote:On April 14 2012 02:47 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
can riven beat Yorick top? Riven destroys Yorick really badly, it's one of her easiest lanes. What the hell? How? Ignore Ghouls, do big damages to Yorick. /shrug If you don't believe me, believe Goldfather: This is a strange matchup in that you should only start engaging on him when you are level 3, even though you have taken dorans blade and he is melee. His sustain is so strong so you need to hit him all at once so that is why I recommend waiting until level 3 before going in on him. Very easy lane as he runs out of mana very quickly if he doesn't go tear. If he doesn't go tear and just stacks armor then he will have no mana for spells and you will heavily outsustain him.
At level 6 you have a massive advantage on him in every aspect and should be able to kill him over and over again.
Important Notes:
Only engage on him at level 3 or if he started slow then you can engage starting at level 1.
You are much stronger than he is in a 1v1, abuse that.
Verdict:
Very Killable lane at all times, very easy lane.
Don't ask for a gank because you shouldn't need it to kill him. http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=16914 so his whole plan for beating yorick top is, hope he doesn't get tear? oh okay. :/ Besides Yorick dominates riven top when yorick goes R > W > E > Q as he should in every lane vs aggressive champs. Since W just shuts riven down completely at lvl 5. she just gets hit and then yorick kites her for days without riven dealing any damage. No, the idea is that if he gets Tear, you outdamage him (because he spent 1k on an item that neither adds to his damage, nor reduces yours), and if he doesn't get Tear, you outsustain him. riven shouldn't be touching yorick in lane. :/ you max W so riven becomes a puppy. A soft slow prevents RIVEN from touching you? How does that work when she has 3 jumps and will likely accidentally kill the ghoul with one of them while jumping on your face?
takes 3 of rivens Q's to kill a ghoul. the slow is 40% on impact and 20% from the ghoul. you can W E then back up and riven uses all 4 dashes to get up still out of melee range of yorick. and on top of that yoricks cooldowns are now up and rivens are not. :/ unless i guess it's a lane in which riven gets boots, and yorick doesn't have them.
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Yorick is dumb and stupid, let's just leave it at that.
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On April 14 2012 08:27 Requizen wrote:
Yorick is dumb and stupid, let's just leave it at that.
but... i like him 
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On April 14 2012 08:31 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 08:27 Requizen wrote:
Yorick is dumb and stupid, let's just leave it at that. but... i like him
Then you're a bad person and you should feel bad.
In all fairness though, he's a fine champ. I just hate laning against him.
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On April 14 2012 08:33 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 08:31 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 08:27 Requizen wrote:
Yorick is dumb and stupid, let's just leave it at that. but... i like him Then you're a bad person and you should feel bad. In all fairness though, he's a fine champ. I just hate laning against him.
i played him since he first came out and everyone said he was the worst in the game. I have an attachment. Meanwhile hecarim will be my other main, spirit breaker wanna be.
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does anyone know if you can as j4 eq into the top lane river brush without being seen by a ward outside that brush? i did it 2 times in a recent game but i don't know if the guy just wasn't paying enough attention or if his ward was further down the river.
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gangplank tools all over most mids, play him there if you want to play him.
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You mean from the blue side's top tower? The wall aside from the top brush?
I think it depends how close the ward is to the bush but 9/10 I dont think they would notice unless they were watching at that exact moment you go into the bush
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On April 14 2012 08:00 koreasilver wrote:
That's why you don't pick GP early man. Or most top picks for that matter.
Yeah. Picking top early can be brutal. The only top picks I'll take before they've picked theirs are AD nida lee and kennen (but even then i'm not 100 percent safe)
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On April 14 2012 08:31 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 08:27 Requizen wrote:
Yorick is dumb and stupid, let's just leave it at that. but... i like him
that is why nobody likes you
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On April 14 2012 08:25 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 06:45 sylverfyre wrote:On April 14 2012 05:10 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 04:09 TheYango wrote:On April 14 2012 03:47 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 03:24 iCanada wrote:On April 14 2012 03:18 randomKo_Orean wrote:On April 14 2012 03:07 Shifft wrote:On April 14 2012 02:47 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
can riven beat Yorick top? Riven destroys Yorick really badly, it's one of her easiest lanes. What the hell? How? Ignore Ghouls, do big damages to Yorick. /shrug If you don't believe me, believe Goldfather: This is a strange matchup in that you should only start engaging on him when you are level 3, even though you have taken dorans blade and he is melee. His sustain is so strong so you need to hit him all at once so that is why I recommend waiting until level 3 before going in on him. Very easy lane as he runs out of mana very quickly if he doesn't go tear. If he doesn't go tear and just stacks armor then he will have no mana for spells and you will heavily outsustain him.
At level 6 you have a massive advantage on him in every aspect and should be able to kill him over and over again.
Important Notes:
Only engage on him at level 3 or if he started slow then you can engage starting at level 1.
You are much stronger than he is in a 1v1, abuse that.
Verdict:
Very Killable lane at all times, very easy lane.
Don't ask for a gank because you shouldn't need it to kill him. http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=16914 so his whole plan for beating yorick top is, hope he doesn't get tear? oh okay. :/ Besides Yorick dominates riven top when yorick goes R > W > E > Q as he should in every lane vs aggressive champs. Since W just shuts riven down completely at lvl 5. she just gets hit and then yorick kites her for days without riven dealing any damage. No, the idea is that if he gets Tear, you outdamage him (because he spent 1k on an item that neither adds to his damage, nor reduces yours), and if he doesn't get Tear, you outsustain him. riven shouldn't be touching yorick in lane. :/ you max W so riven becomes a puppy. A soft slow prevents RIVEN from touching you? How does that work when she has 3 jumps and will likely accidentally kill the ghoul with one of them while jumping on your face? takes 3 of rivens Q's to kill a ghoul. the slow is 40% on impact and 20% from the ghoul. you can W E then back up and riven uses all 4 dashes to get up still out of melee range of yorick. and on top of that yoricks cooldowns are now up and rivens are not. :/ unless i guess it's a lane in which riven gets boots, and yorick doesn't have them.
Riven doesn't need to kill a ghoul. She can shield or stun it and let it kill itself.
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On April 14 2012 10:04 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 08:25 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 06:45 sylverfyre wrote:On April 14 2012 05:10 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 04:09 TheYango wrote:On April 14 2012 03:47 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 03:24 iCanada wrote:On April 14 2012 03:18 randomKo_Orean wrote:On April 14 2012 03:07 Shifft wrote:On April 14 2012 02:47 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
can riven beat Yorick top? Riven destroys Yorick really badly, it's one of her easiest lanes. What the hell? How? Ignore Ghouls, do big damages to Yorick. /shrug If you don't believe me, believe Goldfather: This is a strange matchup in that you should only start engaging on him when you are level 3, even though you have taken dorans blade and he is melee. His sustain is so strong so you need to hit him all at once so that is why I recommend waiting until level 3 before going in on him. Very easy lane as he runs out of mana very quickly if he doesn't go tear. If he doesn't go tear and just stacks armor then he will have no mana for spells and you will heavily outsustain him.
At level 6 you have a massive advantage on him in every aspect and should be able to kill him over and over again.
Important Notes:
Only engage on him at level 3 or if he started slow then you can engage starting at level 1.
You are much stronger than he is in a 1v1, abuse that.
Verdict:
Very Killable lane at all times, very easy lane.
Don't ask for a gank because you shouldn't need it to kill him. http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=16914 so his whole plan for beating yorick top is, hope he doesn't get tear? oh okay. :/ Besides Yorick dominates riven top when yorick goes R > W > E > Q as he should in every lane vs aggressive champs. Since W just shuts riven down completely at lvl 5. she just gets hit and then yorick kites her for days without riven dealing any damage. No, the idea is that if he gets Tear, you outdamage him (because he spent 1k on an item that neither adds to his damage, nor reduces yours), and if he doesn't get Tear, you outsustain him. riven shouldn't be touching yorick in lane. :/ you max W so riven becomes a puppy. A soft slow prevents RIVEN from touching you? How does that work when she has 3 jumps and will likely accidentally kill the ghoul with one of them while jumping on your face? takes 3 of rivens Q's to kill a ghoul. the slow is 40% on impact and 20% from the ghoul. you can W E then back up and riven uses all 4 dashes to get up still out of melee range of yorick. and on top of that yoricks cooldowns are now up and rivens are not. :/ unless i guess it's a lane in which riven gets boots, and yorick doesn't have them. Riven doesn't need to kill a ghoul. She can shield or stun it and let it kill itself.
then she is being slowed, using her cooldowns, and healing yorick. I don't see how she gets an advantage in the matchup.
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On April 14 2012 07:42 Requizen wrote:
Random Ez fanboy thought: what if they took the damage off of W and made it reduce move speed alongside attack speed?
He would become the best AD carry by far.
You could just max W on him, get bluebuff, and you would literally be unbeatable bot lane. Or just play him normally and become ungankable and absurdly good at setting up kills yourself.
Honestly Ez is in a fine spot right now. His only real problem is the fact that his ult costs a shit-load of mana and always leaves creeps alive with barely any hp when you try to clear waves across the map.
Just tweaking his ult to solve that would make him even or better than other ADs.
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On April 14 2012 10:26 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 10:04 Gahlo wrote:On April 14 2012 08:25 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 06:45 sylverfyre wrote:On April 14 2012 05:10 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 04:09 TheYango wrote:On April 14 2012 03:47 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 03:24 iCanada wrote:On April 14 2012 03:18 randomKo_Orean wrote:On April 14 2012 03:07 Shifft wrote:
[quote]
Riven destroys Yorick really badly, it's one of her easiest lanes. What the hell? How? Ignore Ghouls, do big damages to Yorick. /shrug If you don't believe me, believe Goldfather: This is a strange matchup in that you should only start engaging on him when you are level 3, even though you have taken dorans blade and he is melee. His sustain is so strong so you need to hit him all at once so that is why I recommend waiting until level 3 before going in on him. Very easy lane as he runs out of mana very quickly if he doesn't go tear. If he doesn't go tear and just stacks armor then he will have no mana for spells and you will heavily outsustain him.
At level 6 you have a massive advantage on him in every aspect and should be able to kill him over and over again.
Important Notes:
Only engage on him at level 3 or if he started slow then you can engage starting at level 1.
You are much stronger than he is in a 1v1, abuse that.
Verdict:
Very Killable lane at all times, very easy lane.
Don't ask for a gank because you shouldn't need it to kill him. http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=16914 so his whole plan for beating yorick top is, hope he doesn't get tear? oh okay. :/ Besides Yorick dominates riven top when yorick goes R > W > E > Q as he should in every lane vs aggressive champs. Since W just shuts riven down completely at lvl 5. she just gets hit and then yorick kites her for days without riven dealing any damage. No, the idea is that if he gets Tear, you outdamage him (because he spent 1k on an item that neither adds to his damage, nor reduces yours), and if he doesn't get Tear, you outsustain him. riven shouldn't be touching yorick in lane. :/ you max W so riven becomes a puppy. A soft slow prevents RIVEN from touching you? How does that work when she has 3 jumps and will likely accidentally kill the ghoul with one of them while jumping on your face? takes 3 of rivens Q's to kill a ghoul. the slow is 40% on impact and 20% from the ghoul. you can W E then back up and riven uses all 4 dashes to get up still out of melee range of yorick. and on top of that yoricks cooldowns are now up and rivens are not. :/ unless i guess it's a lane in which riven gets boots, and yorick doesn't have them. Riven doesn't need to kill a ghoul. She can shield or stun it and let it kill itself. then she is being slowed, using her cooldowns, and healing yorick. I don't see how she gets an advantage in the matchup.
Riven really doesn't care about being slowed too much. Her cooldowns are on par or shorter than yoricks and don't use up mana. In addition Riven is highly incentivized to build lifesteal through Dblades and BT in addition to having a high hp regen.
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On April 14 2012 10:31 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 10:26 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 10:04 Gahlo wrote:On April 14 2012 08:25 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 06:45 sylverfyre wrote:On April 14 2012 05:10 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 04:09 TheYango wrote:On April 14 2012 03:47 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 03:24 iCanada wrote:On April 14 2012 03:18 randomKo_Orean wrote:
[quote]
What the hell? How? Ignore Ghouls, do big damages to Yorick. /shrug If you don't believe me, believe Goldfather: This is a strange matchup in that you should only start engaging on him when you are level 3, even though you have taken dorans blade and he is melee. His sustain is so strong so you need to hit him all at once so that is why I recommend waiting until level 3 before going in on him. Very easy lane as he runs out of mana very quickly if he doesn't go tear. If he doesn't go tear and just stacks armor then he will have no mana for spells and you will heavily outsustain him.
At level 6 you have a massive advantage on him in every aspect and should be able to kill him over and over again.
Important Notes:
Only engage on him at level 3 or if he started slow then you can engage starting at level 1.
You are much stronger than he is in a 1v1, abuse that.
Verdict:
Very Killable lane at all times, very easy lane.
Don't ask for a gank because you shouldn't need it to kill him. http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=16914 so his whole plan for beating yorick top is, hope he doesn't get tear? oh okay. :/ Besides Yorick dominates riven top when yorick goes R > W > E > Q as he should in every lane vs aggressive champs. Since W just shuts riven down completely at lvl 5. she just gets hit and then yorick kites her for days without riven dealing any damage. No, the idea is that if he gets Tear, you outdamage him (because he spent 1k on an item that neither adds to his damage, nor reduces yours), and if he doesn't get Tear, you outsustain him. riven shouldn't be touching yorick in lane. :/ you max W so riven becomes a puppy. A soft slow prevents RIVEN from touching you? How does that work when she has 3 jumps and will likely accidentally kill the ghoul with one of them while jumping on your face? takes 3 of rivens Q's to kill a ghoul. the slow is 40% on impact and 20% from the ghoul. you can W E then back up and riven uses all 4 dashes to get up still out of melee range of yorick. and on top of that yoricks cooldowns are now up and rivens are not. :/ unless i guess it's a lane in which riven gets boots, and yorick doesn't have them. Riven doesn't need to kill a ghoul. She can shield or stun it and let it kill itself. then she is being slowed, using her cooldowns, and healing yorick. I don't see how she gets an advantage in the matchup. Riven really doesn't care about being slowed too much. Her cooldowns are on par or shorter than yoricks and don't use up mana. In addition Riven is highly incentivized to build lifesteal through Dblades and BT in addition to having a high hp regen.
riven being slowed means she doesn't get to catch up to yorick to deal damage even with dashes (since her E covers half the range of yoricks W, she has to use Q to dash in which wastes alot of damage). Her cooldowns as a whole are from 2 to 9 seconds longer than yoricks except yoricks W which her cooldowns are 1 second longer for Q and slightly faster for others. lifesteal doesn't factor in too often when yorick out heals that easily, and BT won't be gotten for a while when you are being bullied that hard.
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On April 14 2012 10:40 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 10:31 Gahlo wrote:On April 14 2012 10:26 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 10:04 Gahlo wrote:On April 14 2012 08:25 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 06:45 sylverfyre wrote:On April 14 2012 05:10 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 04:09 TheYango wrote:On April 14 2012 03:47 PrinceXizor wrote:so his whole plan for beating yorick top is, hope he doesn't get tear? oh okay. :/ Besides Yorick dominates riven top when yorick goes R > W > E > Q as he should in every lane vs aggressive champs. Since W just shuts riven down completely at lvl 5. she just gets hit and then yorick kites her for days without riven dealing any damage. No, the idea is that if he gets Tear, you outdamage him (because he spent 1k on an item that neither adds to his damage, nor reduces yours), and if he doesn't get Tear, you outsustain him. riven shouldn't be touching yorick in lane. :/ you max W so riven becomes a puppy. A soft slow prevents RIVEN from touching you? How does that work when she has 3 jumps and will likely accidentally kill the ghoul with one of them while jumping on your face? takes 3 of rivens Q's to kill a ghoul. the slow is 40% on impact and 20% from the ghoul. you can W E then back up and riven uses all 4 dashes to get up still out of melee range of yorick. and on top of that yoricks cooldowns are now up and rivens are not. :/ unless i guess it's a lane in which riven gets boots, and yorick doesn't have them. Riven doesn't need to kill a ghoul. She can shield or stun it and let it kill itself. then she is being slowed, using her cooldowns, and healing yorick. I don't see how she gets an advantage in the matchup. Riven really doesn't care about being slowed too much. Her cooldowns are on par or shorter than yoricks and don't use up mana. In addition Riven is highly incentivized to build lifesteal through Dblades and BT in addition to having a high hp regen. riven being slowed means she doesn't get to catch up to yorick to deal damage even with dashes (since her E covers half the range of yoricks W, she has to use Q to dash in which wastes alot of damage). Her cooldowns as a whole are from 2 to 9 seconds longer than yoricks except yoricks W which her cooldowns are 1 second longer for Q and slightly faster for others. lifesteal doesn't factor in too often when yorick out heals that easily, and BT won't be gotten for a while when you are being bullied that hard.
That's fine though, even if you "waste" 2 Q charges and E to get to Yorick, a W auto Q auto is still more damage than he can do to you at almost every stage of the lane. The only window where you can't out-trade Yorick is if he has already bought Ninja Tabi and a Chain Vest and you haven't bought your BF sword yet, which is quite a short period of time. Even vamp scepter + BF is enough to start winning again, don't even need to finish BT.
Also if he rushes Tabi + Chain Vest without buying a Tear his mana will be shit and you can outlast him with just a Vamp Scepter and a couple Dorans.
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Vayne top is brutal... not only because she's efficient, but because if you can't shut her down you suddenly have two carries on the opposing team. Vayne+Kog. Kinda hurt late game, as our Sion wasn't doing much more than their jungle Panth.
Another match-up where MS quints would have beaten armor I think. Couldn't catch her to harass, as WW.
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On April 14 2012 10:40 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 10:31 Gahlo wrote:On April 14 2012 10:26 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 10:04 Gahlo wrote:On April 14 2012 08:25 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 06:45 sylverfyre wrote:On April 14 2012 05:10 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 04:09 TheYango wrote:On April 14 2012 03:47 PrinceXizor wrote:so his whole plan for beating yorick top is, hope he doesn't get tear? oh okay. :/ Besides Yorick dominates riven top when yorick goes R > W > E > Q as he should in every lane vs aggressive champs. Since W just shuts riven down completely at lvl 5. she just gets hit and then yorick kites her for days without riven dealing any damage. No, the idea is that if he gets Tear, you outdamage him (because he spent 1k on an item that neither adds to his damage, nor reduces yours), and if he doesn't get Tear, you outsustain him. riven shouldn't be touching yorick in lane. :/ you max W so riven becomes a puppy. A soft slow prevents RIVEN from touching you? How does that work when she has 3 jumps and will likely accidentally kill the ghoul with one of them while jumping on your face? takes 3 of rivens Q's to kill a ghoul. the slow is 40% on impact and 20% from the ghoul. you can W E then back up and riven uses all 4 dashes to get up still out of melee range of yorick. and on top of that yoricks cooldowns are now up and rivens are not. :/ unless i guess it's a lane in which riven gets boots, and yorick doesn't have them. Riven doesn't need to kill a ghoul. She can shield or stun it and let it kill itself. then she is being slowed, using her cooldowns, and healing yorick. I don't see how she gets an advantage in the matchup. Riven really doesn't care about being slowed too much. Her cooldowns are on par or shorter than yoricks and don't use up mana. In addition Riven is highly incentivized to build lifesteal through Dblades and BT in addition to having a high hp regen. riven being slowed means she doesn't get to catch up to yorick to deal damage even with dashes (since her E covers half the range of yoricks W, she has to use Q to dash in which wastes alot of damage). Her cooldowns as a whole are from 2 to 9 seconds longer than yoricks except yoricks W which her cooldowns are 1 second longer for Q and slightly faster for others. lifesteal doesn't factor in too often when yorick out heals that easily, and BT won't be gotten for a while when you are being bullied that hard.
Except she doesn't have to engage at all and just let you waste mana and push your lane. The activation of her Q doesn't do a lot of damage, it's her passive that provides most of it. Riven's cds from leveling scale at the same amount as Yorick's, so if you're leveling W first then her cooldowns end up being shorter since Riven levels R>W>E>Q. You won't be getting a lot of life from your ghoul and the summoning damage isn't some huge amount to be untradeable.
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EPT
