EPT[Patch 1.0.0.136: Lulu] General Discussion - Page 292
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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! | ||
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SafeWord
United States522 Posts
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 14 2012 06:32 Treadmill wrote: People are waaaay too goddamn worried about who counters who, who wins what lanes vs who. Yeah, there are bad and good matchups for champions but even with the best players it usually comes down to relative skill. No it doesn't. Certain champions are implicitly extremely good against others regardless of your skill. I'm a crappy 1500 player and I could beat Smash in malph vs pantheon. Knowing appropriate counters is incredibly important. Half of games are won in champ select. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22148 Posts
On April 14 2012 06:35 DoctorHelvetica wrote: what happened to warwick? last time I played LoL he was easily the most popular jungle pick and I see him top more than in the jungle. is he too slow or too weak? He clears decently but a lot slower then shyvana/mundo/udyr/noc His pre 6 ganks are pretty bad And his new passive is beastly in lane | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 14 2012 06:35 DoctorHelvetica wrote: what happened to warwick? last time I played LoL he was easily the most popular jungle pick and I see him top more than in the jungle. is he too slow or too weak? Doesn't gank well early (so he sucks at snowballing a lane) and doesn't clear/counter jungle fast enough to make up for it like Shyv/Mundo. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On April 14 2012 06:35 TwoToneTerran wrote: No it doesn't. Certain champions are implicitly extremely good against others regardless of your skill. I'm a crappy 1500 player and I could beat Smash in malph vs pantheon. Knowing appropriate counters is incredibly important. Half of games are won in champ select. No, you would lose that. Counters DO make a difference, but skill is a HUGE determining factor. Hell, GP, for example, is a champ who has pretty much NO good matchups top, but someone who knows how to play GP can make GP look like the most overpowered champ in the game because of how hard skill plays into his matchups. Also: We now have the undercard for our fidds vs vlad matchup. Actually, screw that, Im making this the main event and fidds vlad the undercard. | ||
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Terranasaur
United States2085 Posts
On April 14 2012 06:35 DoctorHelvetica wrote: what happened to warwick? last time I played LoL he was easily the most popular jungle pick and I see him top more than in the jungle. is he too slow or too weak? He's good. I said a while ago that he wasn't, but I was wrong. He's real good. Mundo just FotM and Shy FotLastM. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
"Riven shouldn't be able to approach Yorick because of W slow" -> how does a 20% slow stop someone that has 4 gap-closers from getting to you? Basically, Yorick has trouble against champions that can initiate on him AND are very strong at brawling, such as Xin Zhao and (to a lesser degree) Riven. I'm not convinced that the Riven lane is that bad though. I feel like that idea probably comes from the Yorick players that rush Tear instead of useful items. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On April 14 2012 06:35 TwoToneTerran wrote: No it doesn't. Certain champions are implicitly extremely good against others regardless of your skill. I'm a crappy 1500 player and I could beat Smash in malph vs pantheon. Knowing appropriate counters is incredibly important. Half of games are won in champ select. I doubt it. If you are hardcounter because counterpicked you but does not know the matchup as well as you, you can minimise the loss. I've seen a first pick akali countered by lee sin who got killed twice in lane, got a kill with jungler help roamed to mid a bit and just carried the team and finished something like 11 2. He had really good decision making with his champ so even if you lose your lane, the tons of deicisions you have to do in split seconds all along the game can make a champion you're very good at still worth it. However I still agree that half of games are won in champ select but it's less & less true the more ELO you have ( or the less maybe for very low elo). | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On April 14 2012 05:10 PrinceXizor wrote: riven shouldn't be touching yorick in lane. :/ you max W so riven becomes a puppy. A soft slow prevents RIVEN from touching you? How does that work when she has 3 jumps and will likely accidentally kill the ghoul with one of them while jumping on your face? | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On April 14 2012 06:42 Alzadar wrote: "One Riven stun will kill ghouls" -> what? Ghouls take half damage from AoE and have a third of Yorick's HP. I'm pretty sure a Riven stun does not deal 70% of Yorick's HP as damage. The stun will effectively block one of their auto attacks though. "Riven shouldn't be able to approach Yorick because of W slow" -> how does a 20% slow stop someone that has 4 gap-closers from getting to you? Basically, Yorick has trouble against champions that can initiate on him AND are very strong at brawling, such as Xin Zhao and (to a lesser degree) Riven. I'm not convinced that the Riven lane is that bad though. I feel like that idea probably comes from the Yorick players that rush Tear instead of useful items. Technically speaking she doesn't have to do that much damage, she just has to stun them before they can auto-attack, and the stun has to last long enough that the next auto-attack doesn't occur before they run out of hp. Depending on how far Riven moves in the meantime, it's possible for the ghouls to lose a lot of health before they are in a position to do anything again. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On April 14 2012 06:35 DoctorHelvetica wrote: what happened to warwick? last time I played LoL he was easily the most popular jungle pick and I see him top more than in the jungle. is he too slow or too weak? His jungle has gotten a lot better after his passive change (buff). I think the main reason he's seen top more than jungle isn't because his jungle is bad (I really don't think it's bad at all after his passive buff) but because he's just really strong as a laner and farm junglers are popular these days (Udyr, Shyvana, Mundo). | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Damn, he hurt so much. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 14 2012 06:44 nojok wrote: I doubt it. If you are hardcounter because counterpicked you but does not know the matchup as well as you, you can minimise the loss. I've seen a first pick akali countered by lee sin who got killed twice in lane, got a kill with jungler help roamed to mid a bit and just carried the team and finished something like 11 2. He had really good decision making with his champ so even if you lose your lane, the tons of deicisions you have to do in split seconds all along the game can make a champion you're very good at still worth it. However I still agree that half of games are won in champ select but it's less & less true the more ELO you have ( or the less maybe for very low elo). This anecdote stuff doesn't matter. It is very important to know which champs counter which and this guy brushing it off as "wellll if you're just better than them it doesn't matter" is silly because you cannot guarantee being better than someone. | ||
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Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On April 14 2012 06:59 koreasilver wrote: His jungle has gotten a lot better after his passive change (buff). I think the main reason he's seen top more than jungle isn't because his jungle is bad (I really don't think it's bad at all after his passive buff) but because he's just really strong as a laner and farm junglers are popular these days (Udyr, Shyvana, Mundo). AL Angush just went 10/1 against M5 as solo top warwick laning against renekton I think. He's just not that good in jungle because his clear speed throughout the game is slow meaning even if he keeps up for a while it's hard for him to keep farming. Most junglers can clear jungle fast and run to lanes and clear a wave fast. His ganks are really strong but if he doesn't get kills he doesn't get items. Better to play him solo top right now IMO. Single target champs have no place in the jungle now. | ||
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Zenithal
United States142 Posts
For example, I play Ezreal a lot. People say he's just a worse Corki, who even himself doesn't see a lot of play thanks to Vayne/Kog/Ashe/Graves. I feel that I'm a pretty good Ezreal player, but that doesn't amount to much and it doesn't do my team a lot of favors when I pick him over someone else. (He's godlike in Dominion though, mobility and poke are kings there.) Should I focus on playing Ez, or should I pick someone like Kog, who in the end is more useful to the team? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Meta shifts all the game and champions go from awful to always pick status all the game, your skill at a champion never chances and you will always do well with champions you're good at. Any top AD player can carry games with ezrael especially in solo queue so you shouldn't worry about a higher champ repertoire unless you get into a good team. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On April 14 2012 07:03 Zenithal wrote: I know I missed the AD discussion a few pages back, so I'll make this a general question instead: if you play a champion that's not considered "good", is it better to continue to play that champ as best you can or learn someone new who is a good pick? For example, I play Ezreal a lot. People say he's just a worse Corki, who even himself doesn't see a lot of play thanks to Vayne/Kog/Ashe/Graves. I feel that I'm a pretty good Ezreal player, but that doesn't amount to much and it doesn't do my team a lot of favors when I pick him over someone else. (He's godlike in Dominion though, mobility and poke are kings there.) Should I focus on playing Ez, or should I pick someone like Kog, who in the end is more useful to the team? If you can play ez, and fulfill the role of a carry which ez does, then play ez. You should play the game for fun imo, not to carry others. | ||
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