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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! |
On April 14 2012 03:49 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 03:47 barbsq wrote:On April 14 2012 03:45 Two_DoWn wrote:
Talon and Sivir I agree with.
Fizz not so much, mostly because there is no good itemization for him. He wants the burst of the ap build, but the survivibility of the on hit build, and he cant get both. i disagree, ROA triforce all the way mang, chu8 maokai build edit: also works on naut and nunu  Dun work. He needs the burst from rings and/or a fast sheen.
why? he has pretty good base values. the last time i played fizz top i felt fine dmg wise on cata + phage.
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Isn't fizz like the only guy besides tf that rushes lich bane?I have no idea don't really play fizz.
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TF usually gets a deathcap before Lichbane.
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You should on fizz too. You lose damage by getting a naked lich bane.
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On April 14 2012 03:41 Shiv. wrote:
Hey guys, I like to ask this question once in a while, just to get a feel of the current trends.
What are the most underappreciated, yet perfectly viable picks at the moment? I'd have to go with
Talon - the guy is a beast in Solo Q, he dominates pretty much most of the currently popular AP champions, roams like a beast and snowballs scarily well. Favourite champion at the moment.
Fizz - even though he got some recognition from European teams, I feel like no one really abuses his strength against weak laners.
Sivir - she dropped out of favor after her nerfs, even though she's still a really good AD carry. Her ult remains beast for teamfights, not sure why no one really plays her anymore.
Fizz top lane should be getting more popular since he straight up counters vlad.
Also, if you don't build bruiser AD fizz, you're building him wrong.
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On April 14 2012 03:47 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 03:24 iCanada wrote:On April 14 2012 03:18 randomKo_Orean wrote:On April 14 2012 03:07 Shifft wrote:On April 14 2012 02:47 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
can riven beat Yorick top? Riven destroys Yorick really badly, it's one of her easiest lanes. What the hell? How? Ignore Ghouls, do big damages to Yorick. /shrug If you don't believe me, believe Goldfather: This is a strange matchup in that you should only start engaging on him when you are level 3, even though you have taken dorans blade and he is melee. His sustain is so strong so you need to hit him all at once so that is why I recommend waiting until level 3 before going in on him. Very easy lane as he runs out of mana very quickly if he doesn't go tear. If he doesn't go tear and just stacks armor then he will have no mana for spells and you will heavily outsustain him.
At level 6 you have a massive advantage on him in every aspect and should be able to kill him over and over again.
Important Notes:
Only engage on him at level 3 or if he started slow then you can engage starting at level 1.
You are much stronger than he is in a 1v1, abuse that.
Verdict:
Very Killable lane at all times, very easy lane.
Don't ask for a gank because you shouldn't need it to kill him. http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=16914 so his whole plan for beating yorick top is, hope he doesn't get tear? oh okay. :/ Besides Yorick dominates riven top when yorick goes R > W > E > Q as he should in every lane vs aggressive champs. Since W just shuts riven down completely at lvl 5. she just gets hit and then yorick kites her for days without riven dealing any damage.
If he goes tear he still runs out of mana for the vast majority of the laning phase. He will run low on mana because his strength comes from being very spam heavy.
Riven just does way more damage than Yorick. Yorick can easily zone some champs the gap then hit him any time he hits you... which is really easy on Riven. You can ignore his Ghouls entire existence because she does AoE just randomly, and Riven can't get kited because she has so many dashes. Same way Xin Zhao wrecks Yorick.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 14 2012 03:47 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 03:24 iCanada wrote:On April 14 2012 03:18 randomKo_Orean wrote:On April 14 2012 03:07 Shifft wrote:On April 14 2012 02:47 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
can riven beat Yorick top? Riven destroys Yorick really badly, it's one of her easiest lanes. What the hell? How? Ignore Ghouls, do big damages to Yorick. /shrug If you don't believe me, believe Goldfather: This is a strange matchup in that you should only start engaging on him when you are level 3, even though you have taken dorans blade and he is melee. His sustain is so strong so you need to hit him all at once so that is why I recommend waiting until level 3 before going in on him. Very easy lane as he runs out of mana very quickly if he doesn't go tear. If he doesn't go tear and just stacks armor then he will have no mana for spells and you will heavily outsustain him.
At level 6 you have a massive advantage on him in every aspect and should be able to kill him over and over again.
Important Notes:
Only engage on him at level 3 or if he started slow then you can engage starting at level 1.
You are much stronger than he is in a 1v1, abuse that.
Verdict:
Very Killable lane at all times, very easy lane.
Don't ask for a gank because you shouldn't need it to kill him. http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=16914 so his whole plan for beating yorick top is, hope he doesn't get tear? oh okay. :/ Besides Yorick dominates riven top when yorick goes R > W > E > Q as he should in every lane vs aggressive champs. Since W just shuts riven down completely at lvl 5. she just gets hit and then yorick kites her for days without riven dealing any damage.
No, the idea is that if he gets Tear, you outdamage him (because he spent 1k on an item that neither adds to his damage, nor reduces yours), and if he doesn't get Tear, you outsustain him.
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Fizz is strong solo queue since he deals magic damage (especially with the coming patch with weaker flat mr glyphs). Also his damage is very deceptive since the passive on his W adds flat magic damage and a magic dot (%hp even). Oh and you can double its strength by activating on a fairly short CD. With people trying to pull 50hp escapes at tower all the times, he surprises them pretty good. Oh and yeah two gap closers (one offensive, one both with invulnerability!). I really want to get the hang of him, he seems so strong.
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Isn't AP fizz better for poke comps?
Q E R are poke comp dreams no?
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On April 14 2012 04:16 cLutZ wrote:
Isn't AP fizz better for poke comps?
Q E R are poke comp dreams no?
No.
R CD is too high to be of any actual poking purposes, for the rest of his skills, meh, there's a couple of APs who can just poke a lot better and safer. TF and Kog come to mind.
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On April 14 2012 04:19 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 04:16 cLutZ wrote:
Isn't AP fizz better for poke comps?
Q E R are poke comp dreams no? No. R CD is too high to be of any actual poking purposes, for the rest of his skills, meh, there's a couple of APs who can just poke a lot better and safer. TF and Kog come to mind.
R has 70 second cd at lvl 3 with no cdr. It's kinda like Gragas ulti lategame in that when you're trying to seige a tower, you can just chuck your ulti at them to force them off the turret. Take the turret while they're regrouping/healing up and then back off for 30 seconds and your ulti is up again.
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On April 14 2012 04:09 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 03:47 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 03:24 iCanada wrote:On April 14 2012 03:18 randomKo_Orean wrote:On April 14 2012 03:07 Shifft wrote:On April 14 2012 02:47 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
can riven beat Yorick top? Riven destroys Yorick really badly, it's one of her easiest lanes. What the hell? How? Ignore Ghouls, do big damages to Yorick. /shrug If you don't believe me, believe Goldfather: This is a strange matchup in that you should only start engaging on him when you are level 3, even though you have taken dorans blade and he is melee. His sustain is so strong so you need to hit him all at once so that is why I recommend waiting until level 3 before going in on him. Very easy lane as he runs out of mana very quickly if he doesn't go tear. If he doesn't go tear and just stacks armor then he will have no mana for spells and you will heavily outsustain him.
At level 6 you have a massive advantage on him in every aspect and should be able to kill him over and over again.
Important Notes:
Only engage on him at level 3 or if he started slow then you can engage starting at level 1.
You are much stronger than he is in a 1v1, abuse that.
Verdict:
Very Killable lane at all times, very easy lane.
Don't ask for a gank because you shouldn't need it to kill him. http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=16914 so his whole plan for beating yorick top is, hope he doesn't get tear? oh okay. :/ Besides Yorick dominates riven top when yorick goes R > W > E > Q as he should in every lane vs aggressive champs. Since W just shuts riven down completely at lvl 5. she just gets hit and then yorick kites her for days without riven dealing any damage. No, the idea is that if he gets Tear, you outdamage him (because he spent 1k on an item that neither adds to his damage, nor reduces yours), and if he doesn't get Tear, you outsustain him.
riven shouldn't be touching yorick in lane. :/ you max W so riven becomes a puppy.
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On April 14 2012 03:29 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 03:23 wei2coolman wrote:On April 14 2012 03:07 Shifft wrote:On April 14 2012 02:47 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
can riven beat Yorick top? Riven destroys Yorick really badly, it's one of her easiest lanes. I don't see how she does... Sure she can trade everytime yorick goes in for CS, but yorick simply out sustains her, and even if riven does go in on yorick, she's almost guaranteed to push the lane due to her aoe's (stun aoe, and q aoes). EDIT: I remember seeing a Dyrus game, in which there was a pantheon in his game which went manamune + bveil rush. I know mogwai (our resident badass topelaning pantheon toting beast), hates manamune on pantheon. But I was just thinking this would be a pretty fucking solid idea, such good synchro between a bveil and manamune. manamune + bveil + fheart is fairly solid imo, and what I used to run on urgot pretty regularly (with bruta as well), assuming you actually need the mana. I think that's the actual issue, since mana management on panth later on is basically nonexistant as far as I can tell, and in general, there aren't really that many AD champions gated that hard by mana. edit: also the synergy between manamune and bveil/fheart is decent, but not THAT good. IMO the only reason you ever get manamune is because you want the tear really bad, even if you do already have bveil and fheart, other dmg items generally outperform it in both raw damage and utility.
I dunno, smash can probably talk more intelligently about this than me, but I don't like that build over the dorans-->bruta--->BT build.
Basically because if you run 9 utility and mana regen yellows, I don't see how you could run out of mana throwing spears. Pantheon's damage is just retarded with dblade opening, you either have to force the issue and fight him (which is nearly impossible) or you accept that you're going to get zoned for the first 2-3 creep waves.
I jsut don't really see the need for all that mana I guess, even spamming spears early levels i never run out of mana, and if I get low mana I just push the wave and buy, his AD scaling is bonkers and the best way to abuse that is with early-mid game items that take advantage of his abusiveness.
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On April 14 2012 05:10 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 04:09 TheYango wrote:On April 14 2012 03:47 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 03:24 iCanada wrote:On April 14 2012 03:18 randomKo_Orean wrote:On April 14 2012 03:07 Shifft wrote:On April 14 2012 02:47 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
can riven beat Yorick top? Riven destroys Yorick really badly, it's one of her easiest lanes. What the hell? How? Ignore Ghouls, do big damages to Yorick. /shrug If you don't believe me, believe Goldfather: This is a strange matchup in that you should only start engaging on him when you are level 3, even though you have taken dorans blade and he is melee. His sustain is so strong so you need to hit him all at once so that is why I recommend waiting until level 3 before going in on him. Very easy lane as he runs out of mana very quickly if he doesn't go tear. If he doesn't go tear and just stacks armor then he will have no mana for spells and you will heavily outsustain him.
At level 6 you have a massive advantage on him in every aspect and should be able to kill him over and over again.
Important Notes:
Only engage on him at level 3 or if he started slow then you can engage starting at level 1.
You are much stronger than he is in a 1v1, abuse that.
Verdict:
Very Killable lane at all times, very easy lane.
Don't ask for a gank because you shouldn't need it to kill him. http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=16914 so his whole plan for beating yorick top is, hope he doesn't get tear? oh okay. :/ Besides Yorick dominates riven top when yorick goes R > W > E > Q as he should in every lane vs aggressive champs. Since W just shuts riven down completely at lvl 5. she just gets hit and then yorick kites her for days without riven dealing any damage. No, the idea is that if he gets Tear, you outdamage him (because he spent 1k on an item that neither adds to his damage, nor reduces yours), and if he doesn't get Tear, you outsustain him. riven shouldn't be touching yorick in lane. :/ you max W so riven becomes a puppy.
If Yorick maxes W he has no lane sustain. Not to mention even if Yorick is in range to use his W Riven can press E and be in range to W... Yoricks W has a range of 600, Riven's Dash is 350 and her W has a range of 250. Not to mention, 1 W will kill Ghouls, and about 2 Q's as well so the ongoing slow isn't an issue. Yorick cannot kite Riven, he stunned just as long as Riven slowed, and after that she has her Q hops to ensure she sticks to you.
The only champs in the game that can kite Riven are like Ashe, Lulu, and Caitlyn. Aside from Kassadin she has the best short range mobility in the game.
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On April 14 2012 05:26 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 05:10 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 04:09 TheYango wrote:On April 14 2012 03:47 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 03:24 iCanada wrote:On April 14 2012 03:18 randomKo_Orean wrote:On April 14 2012 03:07 Shifft wrote:On April 14 2012 02:47 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
can riven beat Yorick top? Riven destroys Yorick really badly, it's one of her easiest lanes. What the hell? How? Ignore Ghouls, do big damages to Yorick. /shrug If you don't believe me, believe Goldfather: This is a strange matchup in that you should only start engaging on him when you are level 3, even though you have taken dorans blade and he is melee. His sustain is so strong so you need to hit him all at once so that is why I recommend waiting until level 3 before going in on him. Very easy lane as he runs out of mana very quickly if he doesn't go tear. If he doesn't go tear and just stacks armor then he will have no mana for spells and you will heavily outsustain him.
At level 6 you have a massive advantage on him in every aspect and should be able to kill him over and over again.
Important Notes:
Only engage on him at level 3 or if he started slow then you can engage starting at level 1.
You are much stronger than he is in a 1v1, abuse that.
Verdict:
Very Killable lane at all times, very easy lane.
Don't ask for a gank because you shouldn't need it to kill him. http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=16914 so his whole plan for beating yorick top is, hope he doesn't get tear? oh okay. :/ Besides Yorick dominates riven top when yorick goes R > W > E > Q as he should in every lane vs aggressive champs. Since W just shuts riven down completely at lvl 5. she just gets hit and then yorick kites her for days without riven dealing any damage. No, the idea is that if he gets Tear, you outdamage him (because he spent 1k on an item that neither adds to his damage, nor reduces yours), and if he doesn't get Tear, you outsustain him. riven shouldn't be touching yorick in lane. :/ you max W so riven becomes a puppy. If Yorick maxes W he has no lane sustain. Not to mention even if Yorick is in range to use his W Riven can press E and be in range to W... Yoricks W has a range of 600, Riven's Dash is 350 and her W has a range of 250. Not to mention, 1 W will kill Ghouls, and about 2 Q's as well so the ongoing slow isn't an issue. Yorick cannot kite Riven, he stunned just as long as Riven slowed, and after that she has her Q hops to ensure she sticks to you. The only champs in the game that can kite Riven are like Ashe, Lulu, and Caitlyn. Aside from Kassadin she has the best short range mobility in the game.
this is your theory, i've never (EVER) had an issue laning vs riven as yorick. always won rather easily. maxing W does not take from your sustain too much.
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Is this going on now? I see it has almost 2k viewers but I get nothing but a black screen,
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On April 14 2012 05:42 wintergt wrote:Is this going on now? I see it has almost 2k viewers but I get nothing but a black screen,
i also have a black screen and I see 2k viewers
Must be conspiracy against belgium
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On April 14 2012 05:36 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 05:26 iCanada wrote:On April 14 2012 05:10 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 04:09 TheYango wrote:On April 14 2012 03:47 PrinceXizor wrote:On April 14 2012 03:24 iCanada wrote:On April 14 2012 03:18 randomKo_Orean wrote:On April 14 2012 03:07 Shifft wrote:On April 14 2012 02:47 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
can riven beat Yorick top? Riven destroys Yorick really badly, it's one of her easiest lanes. What the hell? How? Ignore Ghouls, do big damages to Yorick. /shrug If you don't believe me, believe Goldfather: This is a strange matchup in that you should only start engaging on him when you are level 3, even though you have taken dorans blade and he is melee. His sustain is so strong so you need to hit him all at once so that is why I recommend waiting until level 3 before going in on him. Very easy lane as he runs out of mana very quickly if he doesn't go tear. If he doesn't go tear and just stacks armor then he will have no mana for spells and you will heavily outsustain him.
At level 6 you have a massive advantage on him in every aspect and should be able to kill him over and over again.
Important Notes:
Only engage on him at level 3 or if he started slow then you can engage starting at level 1.
You are much stronger than he is in a 1v1, abuse that.
Verdict:
Very Killable lane at all times, very easy lane.
Don't ask for a gank because you shouldn't need it to kill him. http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=16914 so his whole plan for beating yorick top is, hope he doesn't get tear? oh okay. :/ Besides Yorick dominates riven top when yorick goes R > W > E > Q as he should in every lane vs aggressive champs. Since W just shuts riven down completely at lvl 5. she just gets hit and then yorick kites her for days without riven dealing any damage. No, the idea is that if he gets Tear, you outdamage him (because he spent 1k on an item that neither adds to his damage, nor reduces yours), and if he doesn't get Tear, you outsustain him. riven shouldn't be touching yorick in lane. :/ you max W so riven becomes a puppy. If Yorick maxes W he has no lane sustain. Not to mention even if Yorick is in range to use his W Riven can press E and be in range to W... Yoricks W has a range of 600, Riven's Dash is 350 and her W has a range of 250. Not to mention, 1 W will kill Ghouls, and about 2 Q's as well so the ongoing slow isn't an issue. Yorick cannot kite Riven, he stunned just as long as Riven slowed, and after that she has her Q hops to ensure she sticks to you. The only champs in the game that can kite Riven are like Ashe, Lulu, and Caitlyn. Aside from Kassadin she has the best short range mobility in the game. this is your theory, i've never (EVER) had an issue laning vs riven as yorick. always won rather easily. maxing W does not take from your sustain too much.
Anecdotal. I've never had an issue with Yorick after learning how to actually play Riven/the matchup.
By changing from QWE leveling to EWQ I can make you waste a ton of mana level 1-3 with a dorans blade and be fine.
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