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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! |
On April 14 2012 01:41 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 01:28 Glaceau wrote:
also the fiddle beating vlad thing is an old myth now that isnt true anymore. Between the fiddle nerfs and the vlad changes, vlad actually beats him now from my experience, and badly too. you can 100-0 him as soon as you hit level 6 and its impossible to get ulted by him at mid lane. guess it might work top though no, there's no way fiddle has 2 interrupts to vlad's combo, and even if vlad manages to get ult + ignite before getting feared/silenced, fiddle can use this downtime to wait out the ignite before draining or just walk away. also if fiddle drains as you approach for your combo, you're forced to either let him continue to drain you in anticipation that you'll get the kill anyway, or back off to stop the drain. if you say "no turning back" and do it, but DON'T kill him, he can ult you as you run away. if you do back off, you're down an ult and a summoner and he only had to use 1 spammable spell to prevent the kill
shrug, i have 100 vlad games with 60+ win rate. account name is same as this ive done the matchup multiple times since the changes. Gaming > theorycraft
I run heal-ignite if that changes your mind at all.
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On April 14 2012 01:18 LaNague wrote:
i thought fiora is removed from the map during ult
fiora still takes DOT damage so she isn't removed from the map
shaco is the only instance i can think of in which you are truely removed outside of zhonyas
On April 14 2012 01:18 wei2coolman wrote:
How does swains kit counter vlad?
spammable DOTs flat out hard counter vlad because he just can't sustain enough vs them and he can't pool against them
also @vlad vs fiddle, fiddle always wins because fiddle can drain through pool + has fear and silence while vlad has no CC to stop him
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On April 14 2012 01:44 Glaceau wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 01:41 gtrsrs wrote:On April 14 2012 01:28 Glaceau wrote:
also the fiddle beating vlad thing is an old myth now that isnt true anymore. Between the fiddle nerfs and the vlad changes, vlad actually beats him now from my experience, and badly too. you can 100-0 him as soon as you hit level 6 and its impossible to get ulted by him at mid lane. guess it might work top though no, there's no way fiddle has 2 interrupts to vlad's combo, and even if vlad manages to get ult + ignite before getting feared/silenced, fiddle can use this downtime to wait out the ignite before draining or just walk away. also if fiddle drains as you approach for your combo, you're forced to either let him continue to drain you in anticipation that you'll get the kill anyway, or back off to stop the drain. if you say "no turning back" and do it, but DON'T kill him, he can ult you as you run away. if you do back off, you're down an ult and a summoner and he only had to use 1 spammable spell to prevent the kill shrug, i have 100 vlad games with 60+ win rate. account name is same as this ive done the matchup multiple times since the changes. Gaming > theorycraft
while that is true, the fiddles are likely playing that engage wrong. most people tend to run from vlad when he goes balls deep on them, but due to the defensive nature of fiddle's skills, he's better of standing and fighting. properly played, i don't think vlad can win
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On April 14 2012 01:44 Glaceau wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 01:41 gtrsrs wrote:On April 14 2012 01:28 Glaceau wrote:
also the fiddle beating vlad thing is an old myth now that isnt true anymore. Between the fiddle nerfs and the vlad changes, vlad actually beats him now from my experience, and badly too. you can 100-0 him as soon as you hit level 6 and its impossible to get ulted by him at mid lane. guess it might work top though no, there's no way fiddle has 2 interrupts to vlad's combo, and even if vlad manages to get ult + ignite before getting feared/silenced, fiddle can use this downtime to wait out the ignite before draining or just walk away. also if fiddle drains as you approach for your combo, you're forced to either let him continue to drain you in anticipation that you'll get the kill anyway, or back off to stop the drain. if you say "no turning back" and do it, but DON'T kill him, he can ult you as you run away. if you do back off, you're down an ult and a summoner and he only had to use 1 spammable spell to prevent the kill shrug, i have 100 vlad games with 60+ win rate. account name is same as this ive done the matchup multiple times since the changes. Gaming > theorycraft I run heal-ignite if that changes your mind at all.
Showmatch INC.
Ill shoutcast with Soniv.
Now taking any and all bets, 10% cut.
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I play support fiddle, don't underestimate how ridiculously good support fiddle is. Offers good disengages, does dps, and is extremely annoying.
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On April 14 2012 01:46 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 01:44 Glaceau wrote:On April 14 2012 01:41 gtrsrs wrote:On April 14 2012 01:28 Glaceau wrote:
also the fiddle beating vlad thing is an old myth now that isnt true anymore. Between the fiddle nerfs and the vlad changes, vlad actually beats him now from my experience, and badly too. you can 100-0 him as soon as you hit level 6 and its impossible to get ulted by him at mid lane. guess it might work top though no, there's no way fiddle has 2 interrupts to vlad's combo, and even if vlad manages to get ult + ignite before getting feared/silenced, fiddle can use this downtime to wait out the ignite before draining or just walk away. also if fiddle drains as you approach for your combo, you're forced to either let him continue to drain you in anticipation that you'll get the kill anyway, or back off to stop the drain. if you say "no turning back" and do it, but DON'T kill him, he can ult you as you run away. if you do back off, you're down an ult and a summoner and he only had to use 1 spammable spell to prevent the kill shrug, i have 100 vlad games with 60+ win rate. account name is same as this ive done the matchup multiple times since the changes. Gaming > theorycraft I run heal-ignite if that changes your mind at all. Showmatch INC. Ill shoutcast with Soniv. Now taking any and all bets, 10% cut.
$50 on Glaceau
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On April 13 2012 23:52 Schwopzi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 23:00 spinesheath wrote:On April 13 2012 22:47 Schwopzi wrote:On April 13 2012 22:27 ishboh wrote:On April 13 2012 19:40 De4ngus wrote:
ya lategame ashe scary as fuk. big dmg and arrows are op. i am trying to learn at least on character from each area (support, AD carry, solo top, junger, and mid) and ashe is my pick for AD carry. arrows are cool, and ashe has good damage, but it seems like their tank always runs straight into me and i end up getting zoned every team fight or I just die. without an escape it's really hard to survive team fights (malphite/udyr/mundo are usually the type of champs who get me). is this my fault or is it likely that my team should be doing more to protect me? i have been thinking of trying tristana instead for the jump just becuase my ashe gets focused to easily. Udyr & Mundo shouldnt give too much trouble with q maxed & phantom dancer speedboost; the main crux of kiting with ashe is not attacking as much as possible but as much as needed to keep up your slow. Malphite on the other hand has a awesome gapcloser; you just got to stay out of his ult range unless theres no chance of followup (ie he dived too far through your team to get to you). Mundo has a 35% MSpd stereoid, 20 more base MSpd than Ashe, 35% CC Reduction from W, a 40% slow skillshot (which either hits or forces you to dodge in a direction that is not straight away from Mundo), and is quite likely to wear a FoN. He sure as hell isn't easy to kite, even with maxed Ashe Q and red buff. If it's just Ashe vs Mundo, he'll catch up in no time. The problem for mundo & udyr isn't the base stats; they have to go through your team to reach you and lacking blinklike abilities ashe can safely slow them. Gotta keep your team between you and them. Can't really say who's fault it is if you get foccused down by mundo without actually seeing it happen because it can be your team not helping with peeling or you positioning badly
It's pretty easy to tell if the AD is positioning properly. It's the simplest role to teamfight as conceptually. Stay far away, autoattack when you can safely do so.
Assuming you follow this plan and if Mundo catches you and kills you, you either suck at stutterstep (don't delay a single autoattack though, you can't waste time while Mundo's W burns on you), or your team messed up, or the enemy is just too far ahead already.
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It comes down to these few concepts:
1. the gamechanger in the matchup is that fiddle absolutely needs flash, while you can get away with heal-ignite on vlad if your experienced with him. if he stands and fights your going to win everytime, and then they will be behind. and if your behind to vlad you're fucked.
2. Vlad CSes 100x easier then fiddle. once your around the level 7-9 area, fiddle is going to be clearing at his tower all day which you know how hard it is for him. the matchup gets more and more in vlad's favor as time goes on.
3. without a jungle gank you will never force vlad out of lane, you simply dont have the burst threat that other casters do. in a 1v1 showmatch this matchup would be even easier as junglers are really the only thing that can keep fiddle in this matchup since vlad pushes.
fiddle used to shit on vlad, but hey the game changes. the introduction of the bullshit known as WOTA and the mastery changes put vlad ahead.
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On April 14 2012 01:45 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 01:18 LaNague wrote:
i thought fiora is removed from the map during ult fiora still takes DOT damage so she isn't removed from the map shaco is the only instance i can think of in which you are truely removed outside of zhonyas
LB's passive?
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On April 14 2012 01:52 Glaceau wrote:
It comes down to these few concepts:
1. the gamechanger in the matchup is that fiddle absolutely needs flash, while you can get away with heal-ignite on vlad if your experienced with him. if he stands and fights your going to win everytime, and then they will be behind. and if your behind to vlad you're fucked.
2. Vlad CSes 100x easier then fiddle. once your around the level 7-9 area, fiddle is going to be clearing at his tower all day which you know how hard it is for him. the matchup gets more and more in vlad's favor as time goes on.
3. without a jungle gank you will never force vlad out of lane, you simply dont have the burst threat that other casters do. in a 1v1 showmatch this matchup would be even easier as junglers are really the only thing that can keep fiddle in this matchup since vlad pushes.
vouch
soloside has spoken.
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On April 14 2012 01:46 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 01:44 Glaceau wrote:On April 14 2012 01:41 gtrsrs wrote:On April 14 2012 01:28 Glaceau wrote:
also the fiddle beating vlad thing is an old myth now that isnt true anymore. Between the fiddle nerfs and the vlad changes, vlad actually beats him now from my experience, and badly too. you can 100-0 him as soon as you hit level 6 and its impossible to get ulted by him at mid lane. guess it might work top though no, there's no way fiddle has 2 interrupts to vlad's combo, and even if vlad manages to get ult + ignite before getting feared/silenced, fiddle can use this downtime to wait out the ignite before draining or just walk away. also if fiddle drains as you approach for your combo, you're forced to either let him continue to drain you in anticipation that you'll get the kill anyway, or back off to stop the drain. if you say "no turning back" and do it, but DON'T kill him, he can ult you as you run away. if you do back off, you're down an ult and a summoner and he only had to use 1 spammable spell to prevent the kill shrug, i have 100 vlad games with 60+ win rate. account name is same as this ive done the matchup multiple times since the changes. Gaming > theorycraft I run heal-ignite if that changes your mind at all. Showmatch INC. Ill shoutcast with Soniv. Now taking any and all bets, 10% cut.
I'd totally shout cast this. For a 9.9% cut. Screw T_D, that greedy bastard.
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is the amount of farmable cs for botlane at 10 minnutes in to the game 101?
not sure if i did my math right, i'd really apprecaite if some1 checked for me :D
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On April 14 2012 02:13 locodoco wrote:
is the amount of farmable cs for botlane at 10 minnutes in to the game 101?
not sure if i did my math right, i'd really apprecaite if some1 checked for me :D
It should be 114.
+ Show Spoiler +
Do you still stream btw?
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i have played 5 games of fiddle ever in my life since beta, and never laned him, i obviously would stand no chance
basically if you take no ghost/flash on vlad you're extremely vulnerable to ganks, especially to some of the more used junglers like rammus + udyr + skarner. fiddle, on the other hand, can fear someone coming in to gank him and walk away. and should the jungler wait til fear is on cooldown, he's got silence. or flash as a backup. or if the ganker doesn't have a stun, he's got drain.
and while i think heal has its place on vlad in the mid-game because of the ramp-up from E, aren't you only going to have 1 level of E at 6? at that point it's very health-inefficient, so you MUST hit fiddle with it every time you use it, but why would fiddle let you get in range to hit E on him 3 times without retaliation before you engage? AND i'm going to assume you level QWQE so your E ticks at level 4 are going to do absolutely nothing IMO.
plus there's no reason for fiddle not to run a full MR page and rush abyssal, since his only real damage comes from drain and ult, and he gets passive MR reduction. so you're looking at a fiddle that's coming to lane with like 60+ MR, and rushing an item that gives more MR and MR reduction. i just feel like an all-in strat like heal/ignite against a champ that's basically prepared for an all-in... isn't going to work.
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On April 14 2012 02:16 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 02:13 locodoco wrote:
is the amount of farmable cs for botlane at 10 minnutes in to the game 101?
not sure if i did my math right, i'd really apprecaite if some1 checked for me :D It should be 114. + Show Spoiler +Do you still stream btw?
I think 101 is more realistic if you talk about farmable CS. 1-2 waves will not yet have reached you, when you're assuming that your at the center of the lane. The list shows how many creeps have spawned. It doesn't take "travelling" into account.
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On April 14 2012 02:25 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 02:16 JackDino wrote:On April 14 2012 02:13 locodoco wrote:
is the amount of farmable cs for botlane at 10 minnutes in to the game 101?
not sure if i did my math right, i'd really apprecaite if some1 checked for me :D It should be 114. + Show Spoiler +Do you still stream btw? I think 101 is more realistic if you talk about farmable CS. 1-2 waves will not yet have reached you, when you're assuming that your at the center of the lane. The list shows how many creeps have spawned. It doesn't take "travelling" into account.
Ya the table does ignore minion traveling time.
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On April 14 2012 01:56 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 01:45 Frolossus wrote:On April 14 2012 01:18 LaNague wrote:
i thought fiora is removed from the map during ult fiora still takes DOT damage so she isn't removed from the map shaco is the only instance i can think of in which you are truely removed outside of zhonyas LB's passive?
LB stealths and then spawns an image on herself. Don't think it works the same as shaco ult.
edit: well, actually the wording is similar on shaco's ult description, so I don't really know now.
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On April 14 2012 02:16 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 02:13 locodoco wrote:
is the amount of farmable cs for botlane at 10 minnutes in to the game 101?
not sure if i did my math right, i'd really apprecaite if some1 checked for me :D It should be 114. + Show Spoiler +Do you still stream btw?
This chart does not take into account the travel time for waves to reach mid-line. I am not sure how many seconds that is exactly, but you can leash blue at 1:55 then run and make it to lane without losing any cs, so I think its safe to say it takes ~30 seconds.
This means the max available CS is 107, although those final 6 minions will have just reached mid-lane without having the lane slightly pushed....so max possible creep score (without stealing jungle) is probably 101 realistically.
edit: Yikes I missed the boat responding to that one.
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I takes about 1 minute to get to lane. If you pull your blue for jungler you won't miss CS at all, so at 2:00 is when you can start to last hit creeps. So around 10-10:15 you can expect to have 101 cs under absolutely perfect farming.
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So it won't break, say, WW's or Malz's ult if they have an oracle at the time when her passive triggers, for example?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111226174833/leagueoflegends/images/6/65/Perfect_Creep_Score.png)
