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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! |
Ez is hidden strong, imo. He works well in a lot of different comps (AoE comps with good ults, poke comps, mobile comps, etc), and has some really good lane matchups. If you are having issues bot with him, send him mid and laugh at all the AP mids. It's pretty funny.
Just play what you want. Unless you're queuing with people you actually know and they're throwing a bitchfit about it, what random people think shouldn't matter.
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On April 14 2012 06:40 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 06:35 TwoToneTerran wrote:On April 14 2012 06:32 Treadmill wrote:
People are waaaay too goddamn worried about who counters who, who wins what lanes vs who. Yeah, there are bad and good matchups for champions but even with the best players it usually comes down to relative skill. No it doesn't. Certain champions are implicitly extremely good against others regardless of your skill. I'm a crappy 1500 player and I could beat Smash in malph vs pantheon. Knowing appropriate counters is incredibly important. Half of games are won in champ select. No, you would lose that. Counters DO make a difference, but skill is a HUGE determining factor. Hell, GP, for example, is a champ who has pretty much NO good matchups top, but someone who knows how to play GP can make GP look like the most overpowered champ in the game because of how hard skill plays into his matchups. Also: We now have the undercard for our fidds vs vlad matchup. Actually, screw that, Im making this the main event and fidds vlad the undercard.
is gp so bad nowadays? thats saddens me cuz its my favourite champ to play :<
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On April 14 2012 07:14 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 06:40 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 14 2012 06:35 TwoToneTerran wrote:On April 14 2012 06:32 Treadmill wrote:
People are waaaay too goddamn worried about who counters who, who wins what lanes vs who. Yeah, there are bad and good matchups for champions but even with the best players it usually comes down to relative skill. No it doesn't. Certain champions are implicitly extremely good against others regardless of your skill. I'm a crappy 1500 player and I could beat Smash in malph vs pantheon. Knowing appropriate counters is incredibly important. Half of games are won in champ select. No, you would lose that. Counters DO make a difference, but skill is a HUGE determining factor. Hell, GP, for example, is a champ who has pretty much NO good matchups top, but someone who knows how to play GP can make GP look like the most overpowered champ in the game because of how hard skill plays into his matchups. Also: We now have the undercard for our fidds vs vlad matchup. Actually, screw that, Im making this the main event and fidds vlad the undercard. is gp so bad nowadays? thats saddens me cuz its my favourite champ to play :<
He is getting better cuz they keep nerfing everyone else, but no, not really.
GP basically comes down to if you are BETTER than who you are against, then you are gonna make them look terrible, but if they have a brain you will be in trouble.
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On April 14 2012 07:16 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 07:14 kongoline wrote:On April 14 2012 06:40 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 14 2012 06:35 TwoToneTerran wrote:On April 14 2012 06:32 Treadmill wrote:
People are waaaay too goddamn worried about who counters who, who wins what lanes vs who. Yeah, there are bad and good matchups for champions but even with the best players it usually comes down to relative skill. No it doesn't. Certain champions are implicitly extremely good against others regardless of your skill. I'm a crappy 1500 player and I could beat Smash in malph vs pantheon. Knowing appropriate counters is incredibly important. Half of games are won in champ select. No, you would lose that. Counters DO make a difference, but skill is a HUGE determining factor. Hell, GP, for example, is a champ who has pretty much NO good matchups top, but someone who knows how to play GP can make GP look like the most overpowered champ in the game because of how hard skill plays into his matchups. Also: We now have the undercard for our fidds vs vlad matchup. Actually, screw that, Im making this the main event and fidds vlad the undercard. is gp so bad nowadays? thats saddens me cuz its my favourite champ to play :< He is getting better cuz they keep nerfing everyone else, but no, not really. GP basically comes down to if you are BETTER than who you are against, then you are gonna make them look terrible, but if they have a brain you will be in trouble.
GP can always play safe and farm and be usefull mid-late.
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On April 14 2012 07:14 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 06:40 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 14 2012 06:35 TwoToneTerran wrote:On April 14 2012 06:32 Treadmill wrote:
People are waaaay too goddamn worried about who counters who, who wins what lanes vs who. Yeah, there are bad and good matchups for champions but even with the best players it usually comes down to relative skill. No it doesn't. Certain champions are implicitly extremely good against others regardless of your skill. I'm a crappy 1500 player and I could beat Smash in malph vs pantheon. Knowing appropriate counters is incredibly important. Half of games are won in champ select. No, you would lose that. Counters DO make a difference, but skill is a HUGE determining factor. Hell, GP, for example, is a champ who has pretty much NO good matchups top, but someone who knows how to play GP can make GP look like the most overpowered champ in the game because of how hard skill plays into his matchups. Also: We now have the undercard for our fidds vs vlad matchup. Actually, screw that, Im making this the main event and fidds vlad the undercard. is gp so bad nowadays? thats saddens me cuz its my favourite champ to play :<
Fuck that. Get a full crit page and rape your lane.
BTW how many q type things on champions can crit? I know vayne q bonus can crit, and cait passive can crit, and gp q can crit.
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Technically speaking Headshot is bonus damage like Sheen, so while you can crit during a Headshot the bonus damage isn't doubled. That said Headshot is unique in that it's oddly affected by Crit Damage (e.g. if you have IE the damage bonus increased from 50% to 62.5%, but only during a crit).
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On April 14 2012 07:23 SnK-Arcbound wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 07:14 kongoline wrote:On April 14 2012 06:40 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 14 2012 06:35 TwoToneTerran wrote:On April 14 2012 06:32 Treadmill wrote:
People are waaaay too goddamn worried about who counters who, who wins what lanes vs who. Yeah, there are bad and good matchups for champions but even with the best players it usually comes down to relative skill. No it doesn't. Certain champions are implicitly extremely good against others regardless of your skill. I'm a crappy 1500 player and I could beat Smash in malph vs pantheon. Knowing appropriate counters is incredibly important. Half of games are won in champ select. No, you would lose that. Counters DO make a difference, but skill is a HUGE determining factor. Hell, GP, for example, is a champ who has pretty much NO good matchups top, but someone who knows how to play GP can make GP look like the most overpowered champ in the game because of how hard skill plays into his matchups. Also: We now have the undercard for our fidds vs vlad matchup. Actually, screw that, Im making this the main event and fidds vlad the undercard. is gp so bad nowadays? thats saddens me cuz its my favourite champ to play :< Fuck that. Get a full crit page and rape your lane. BTW how many q type things on champions can crit? I know vayne q bonus can crit, and cait passive can crit, and gp q can crit.
According to the wiki cait passive doesn't crit.
+ Show Spoiler +Critical strike damage is not applied to the Headshot damage; a 100 base damage attack gain +100 damage from the crit and +50 damage from Headshot against champions.
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United States10467 Posts
On April 14 2012 07:23 SnK-Arcbound wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 07:14 kongoline wrote:On April 14 2012 06:40 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 14 2012 06:35 TwoToneTerran wrote:On April 14 2012 06:32 Treadmill wrote:
People are waaaay too goddamn worried about who counters who, who wins what lanes vs who. Yeah, there are bad and good matchups for champions but even with the best players it usually comes down to relative skill. No it doesn't. Certain champions are implicitly extremely good against others regardless of your skill. I'm a crappy 1500 player and I could beat Smash in malph vs pantheon. Knowing appropriate counters is incredibly important. Half of games are won in champ select. No, you would lose that. Counters DO make a difference, but skill is a HUGE determining factor. Hell, GP, for example, is a champ who has pretty much NO good matchups top, but someone who knows how to play GP can make GP look like the most overpowered champ in the game because of how hard skill plays into his matchups. Also: We now have the undercard for our fidds vs vlad matchup. Actually, screw that, Im making this the main event and fidds vlad the undercard. is gp so bad nowadays? thats saddens me cuz its my favourite champ to play :< Fuck that. Get a full crit page and rape your lane. BTW how many q type things on champions can crit? I know vayne q bonus can crit, and cait passive can crit, and gp q can crit.
GP's parley is the only single or multitargeted spell that can crit in the game. Vayne's Q is an autoattack enhancer. Caitlyn's headshot bonus damage does not stack with crits.
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On April 14 2012 07:03 Zenithal wrote:
I know I missed the AD discussion a few pages back, so I'll make this a general question instead: if you play a champion that's not considered "good", is it better to continue to play that champ as best you can or learn someone new who is a good pick?
For example, I play Ezreal a lot. People say he's just a worse Corki, who even himself doesn't see a lot of play thanks to Vayne/Kog/Ashe/Graves. I feel that I'm a pretty good Ezreal player, but that doesn't amount to much and it doesn't do my team a lot of favors when I pick him over someone else. (He's godlike in Dominion though, mobility and poke are kings there.) Should I focus on playing Ez, or should I pick someone like Kog, who in the end is more useful to the team?
Ezreal has advantages over Corki. His lane phase for example is a lot stronger at early levels. Like, Corki pre-6 is actually pretty weak especially when compared to ADs like Graves or Sivir or Kog who are really strong pre and post 6. Ez can compete with those champions pre-6 though. Granted, by the time like level 6 or 7 rolls around Corki probably surpasses Ezreal but Ez can play aggressive earlier in lane than Corki can.
Ez and Corki are super strong in solo queue. You don't have to rely on teammates as much as someone like Kog does. You can also make more mistakes as Ez/Corki because of the fact that they have the two best escapes of other AD carries. Corki was like one of the most played ADs at Hannover but his laning isn't as good as Kog or Graves or Caitlyn. Ez got seen at Hannover too. Regardless, every single AD carry in the game is viable and if you're good with an AD carry you can farm just fine bot lane against pretty much any match up.
edit:
While you can farm just fine in solo queue there are definitely match ups where you have to play like a pussy. But I don't think there are many lanes where any AD carry in solo queue just can't farm in bot lane.
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On April 14 2012 07:31 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 07:03 Zenithal wrote:
I know I missed the AD discussion a few pages back, so I'll make this a general question instead: if you play a champion that's not considered "good", is it better to continue to play that champ as best you can or learn someone new who is a good pick?
For example, I play Ezreal a lot. People say he's just a worse Corki, who even himself doesn't see a lot of play thanks to Vayne/Kog/Ashe/Graves. I feel that I'm a pretty good Ezreal player, but that doesn't amount to much and it doesn't do my team a lot of favors when I pick him over someone else. (He's godlike in Dominion though, mobility and poke are kings there.) Should I focus on playing Ez, or should I pick someone like Kog, who in the end is more useful to the team? Ezreal has advantages over Corki. His lane phase for example is a lot stronger at early levels. Like, Corki pre-6 is actually pretty weak especially when compared to ADs like Graves or Sivir or Kog who are really strong pre and post 6. Ez can compete with those champions pre-6 though. Granted, by the time like level 6 or 7 rolls around Corki probably surpasses Ezreal but Ez can play aggressive earlier in lane than Corki can. Ez and Corki are super strong in solo queue. You don't have to rely on teammates as much as someone like Kog does. You can also make more mistakes as Ez/Corki because of the fact that they have the two best escapes of other AD carries. Corki was like one of the most played ADs at Hannover but his laning isn't as good as Kog or Graves or Caitlyn. Ez got seen at Hannover too. Regardless, every single AD carry in the game is viable and if you're good with an AD carry you can farm just fine bot lane against pretty much any match up. edit: While you can farm just fine in solo queue there are definitely match ups where you have to play like a pussy. But I don't think there are many lanes where any AD carry in solo queue just can't farm in bot lane.
I don't buy that Ez's lane phase is better than Corki. If you can dodge Ez skillshots, which is very easy, Ez loses out on a ton of dps. Corki has a stronger passive and his spells (Q+E) do almost as much damage and are much harder to dodge.
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Been dicking around on the PBE. If the PBE is reflective of their next release, then I'm rather glad they decided to delay it. The client is extremely buggy, and there are some pretty serious gameplay issues. Global ultimates fizz out for no reason, messages/kill streaks are buggy, and Kog'maw now has Anivia's passive. And I can barely last hit with Swain's old AA anymore, so I have to go on PBE whenever I want to scratch that itch.
On a completely unrelated note, Revive only gives 25% bonus movement speed now. Do dunkmasters take ghost these days?
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Random Ez fanboy thought: what if they took the damage off of W and made it reduce move speed alongside attack speed?
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On April 14 2012 07:39 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 07:31 overt wrote:On April 14 2012 07:03 Zenithal wrote:
I know I missed the AD discussion a few pages back, so I'll make this a general question instead: if you play a champion that's not considered "good", is it better to continue to play that champ as best you can or learn someone new who is a good pick?
For example, I play Ezreal a lot. People say he's just a worse Corki, who even himself doesn't see a lot of play thanks to Vayne/Kog/Ashe/Graves. I feel that I'm a pretty good Ezreal player, but that doesn't amount to much and it doesn't do my team a lot of favors when I pick him over someone else. (He's godlike in Dominion though, mobility and poke are kings there.) Should I focus on playing Ez, or should I pick someone like Kog, who in the end is more useful to the team? Ezreal has advantages over Corki. His lane phase for example is a lot stronger at early levels. Like, Corki pre-6 is actually pretty weak especially when compared to ADs like Graves or Sivir or Kog who are really strong pre and post 6. Ez can compete with those champions pre-6 though. Granted, by the time like level 6 or 7 rolls around Corki probably surpasses Ezreal but Ez can play aggressive earlier in lane than Corki can. Ez and Corki are super strong in solo queue. You don't have to rely on teammates as much as someone like Kog does. You can also make more mistakes as Ez/Corki because of the fact that they have the two best escapes of other AD carries. Corki was like one of the most played ADs at Hannover but his laning isn't as good as Kog or Graves or Caitlyn. Ez got seen at Hannover too. Regardless, every single AD carry in the game is viable and if you're good with an AD carry you can farm just fine bot lane against pretty much any match up. edit: While you can farm just fine in solo queue there are definitely match ups where you have to play like a pussy. But I don't think there are many lanes where any AD carry in solo queue just can't farm in bot lane. I don't buy that Ez's lane phase is better than Corki. If you can dodge Ez skillshots, which is very easy, Ez loses out on a ton of dps. Corki has a stronger passive and his spells (Q+E) do almost as much damage and are much harder to dodge.
It's only better super early because Corki's harass is basically just his Q which doesn't have the range of Ez Q and Corki's Q is probably the least mana efficient harass of every AD carry at early levels. You can literally get off like 3-4 Qs early before going oom. Because of this Corki often has to play really passive at early levels which is why he has a tough time against champions like Graves who can harass much more efficiently with spells or champions like Kog/Cait/Ashe who can get free autos on him.
It isn't even about being able to harass or poke with Q, it's the added benefit that because you can spam Q so much if you end up being zoned as Ez you can still use Q to get farm. Corki has to wait until level 6 for his long range mana efficient farm tool. Ez can play aggressive at level 1 because if he ends up on the bad side of a trade he can still use Q to farm efficiently. Corki can't and thus usually plays pretty passive early levels. I don't think Ez's laning overall is better than Corki's, but pre-6 Corki is pretty bad at lane phase. Once he hits his 6 he gets a lot better but if your opponent is good they can make your pre-6 a nightmare as Corki.
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On April 14 2012 07:23 SnK-Arcbound wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 07:14 kongoline wrote:On April 14 2012 06:40 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 14 2012 06:35 TwoToneTerran wrote:On April 14 2012 06:32 Treadmill wrote:
People are waaaay too goddamn worried about who counters who, who wins what lanes vs who. Yeah, there are bad and good matchups for champions but even with the best players it usually comes down to relative skill. No it doesn't. Certain champions are implicitly extremely good against others regardless of your skill. I'm a crappy 1500 player and I could beat Smash in malph vs pantheon. Knowing appropriate counters is incredibly important. Half of games are won in champ select. No, you would lose that. Counters DO make a difference, but skill is a HUGE determining factor. Hell, GP, for example, is a champ who has pretty much NO good matchups top, but someone who knows how to play GP can make GP look like the most overpowered champ in the game because of how hard skill plays into his matchups. Also: We now have the undercard for our fidds vs vlad matchup. Actually, screw that, Im making this the main event and fidds vlad the undercard. is gp so bad nowadays? thats saddens me cuz its my favourite champ to play :< Fuck that. Get a full crit page and rape your lane. BTW how many q type things on champions can crit? I know vayne q bonus can crit, and cait passive can crit, and gp q can crit.
LOL, GP is a bad pick now because he is not as strong as before. Plus, as soon as you pick GP the other team will pick Pantheon and super hard counter your ass out of the lane. It doesn't matter if you use full crit page or not, you will get raped sideways by a Pantheon noob.
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On April 14 2012 07:42 Requizen wrote:
Random Ez fanboy thought: what if they took the damage off of W and made it reduce move speed alongside attack speed?
That is too op given Ez has insane mobility.
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I've been playing a few games as voli again and it's so easy to get first bloods, people just throw themselves at you. They seem to forget about the passive and heal when they see you low and try to dive or take a bad fight :D.
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On April 14 2012 07:50 Tryndamere wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 07:23 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On April 14 2012 07:14 kongoline wrote:On April 14 2012 06:40 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 14 2012 06:35 TwoToneTerran wrote:On April 14 2012 06:32 Treadmill wrote:
People are waaaay too goddamn worried about who counters who, who wins what lanes vs who. Yeah, there are bad and good matchups for champions but even with the best players it usually comes down to relative skill. No it doesn't. Certain champions are implicitly extremely good against others regardless of your skill. I'm a crappy 1500 player and I could beat Smash in malph vs pantheon. Knowing appropriate counters is incredibly important. Half of games are won in champ select. No, you would lose that. Counters DO make a difference, but skill is a HUGE determining factor. Hell, GP, for example, is a champ who has pretty much NO good matchups top, but someone who knows how to play GP can make GP look like the most overpowered champ in the game because of how hard skill plays into his matchups. Also: We now have the undercard for our fidds vs vlad matchup. Actually, screw that, Im making this the main event and fidds vlad the undercard. is gp so bad nowadays? thats saddens me cuz its my favourite champ to play :< Fuck that. Get a full crit page and rape your lane. BTW how many q type things on champions can crit? I know vayne q bonus can crit, and cait passive can crit, and gp q can crit. LOL, GP is a bad pick now because he is not as strong as before. Plus, as soon as you pick GP the other team will pick Pantheon and super hard counter your ass out of the lane. It doesn't matter if you use full crit page or not, you will get raped sideways by a Pantheon noob.
I find instant panth counter picks hard to believe.
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Thing is Corki is pretty strong in a fight pre 6. So if you have a support that can force a trade such as Taric you can be fairly aggressive early on and then farm under the threat of your support. But yeah if thats not the case you are relegated to carefully sneaking in a creep here and there until you are lvl 6.
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On April 14 2012 07:50 Tryndamere wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 07:23 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On April 14 2012 07:14 kongoline wrote:On April 14 2012 06:40 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 14 2012 06:35 TwoToneTerran wrote:On April 14 2012 06:32 Treadmill wrote:
People are waaaay too goddamn worried about who counters who, who wins what lanes vs who. Yeah, there are bad and good matchups for champions but even with the best players it usually comes down to relative skill. No it doesn't. Certain champions are implicitly extremely good against others regardless of your skill. I'm a crappy 1500 player and I could beat Smash in malph vs pantheon. Knowing appropriate counters is incredibly important. Half of games are won in champ select. No, you would lose that. Counters DO make a difference, but skill is a HUGE determining factor. Hell, GP, for example, is a champ who has pretty much NO good matchups top, but someone who knows how to play GP can make GP look like the most overpowered champ in the game because of how hard skill plays into his matchups. Also: We now have the undercard for our fidds vs vlad matchup. Actually, screw that, Im making this the main event and fidds vlad the undercard. is gp so bad nowadays? thats saddens me cuz its my favourite champ to play :< Fuck that. Get a full crit page and rape your lane. BTW how many q type things on champions can crit? I know vayne q bonus can crit, and cait passive can crit, and gp q can crit. LOL, GP is a bad pick now because he is not as strong as before. Plus, as soon as you pick GP the other team will pick Pantheon and super hard counter your ass out of the lane. It doesn't matter if you use full crit page or not, you will get raped sideways by a Pantheon noob.
Pantheon will run when he takes 200 damage in the first second of the fight. Now think if pantheon has crit o_O also.
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That's why you don't pick GP early man. Or most top picks for that matter.
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EPT
