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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! |
On April 13 2012 19:09 Hakanfrog wrote:
How is Ashe end game compared to other AD carrys?
Her ulti is good for engaging and she´s good at chasing, but her damage doesn´t seem that amazing to me.
Its lower than other AD, but her lategame is fucking ridiculous strong. Slow everyone never get caught, kite entire team with volley and instantly win game with one good arrow. Just watch the IPL finals with TSM and CLG and watch endgame Ashe shit all over everyone.
Unless I have a tank line like the great wall of China to stand behind I'd rather be 6 item Ashe in 99% of situations than any other AD. Learn to kite and just win the game.
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ya lategame ashe scary as fuk. big dmg and arrows are op.
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MiG playing terrible.
Towerdiving Vlad when heal is up. Graves punished for pushing hard and not properly warded river.
Wrong thread.
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On April 13 2012 19:30 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 19:21 Schwopzi wrote:On April 13 2012 19:16 Slayer91 wrote:
Ashes damage in practical circumstances is actually really high with just IE or IE PD because of good range, good animation, volley, and her slow. There's a reason vayne and kog aren't played every game. Endgame damage, not midgame ^^ Add LW and BT in there and the gap is even smaller. You saw hotshots cho with randunis and frozen heart melt in 5 seconds or less in hannover. In lategame being harder to catch with CC and having a huge slow means you do a lot more damage than carries with "more damage" in a lot of games. Nobody cares about your potential damage if everyone leaves you alone for 10 seconds. You don't see people playing rumble and fiddle and cass constantly because they do lots of damage lategame. Kog has huge range a nice slow and good poke, vayne has huge mobility and true damage, tristana has huge range and a 2 escapes. People play ashe for damage just as much as people play tristana for damage, and they all have their own utility.
So basically you're saying her endgame damage is worse then any other carry but she can hit stuff easily, like i was saying as well. And the only games you'd do more damage in teamfights with ashe then other ads (with same farm) is when your team is lacking in disables; imo she shines in comps with vlad/shyvana type champs (low cc/high damage&tankiness)
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On April 13 2012 20:22 Schwopzi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 19:30 Slayer91 wrote:On April 13 2012 19:21 Schwopzi wrote:On April 13 2012 19:16 Slayer91 wrote:
Ashes damage in practical circumstances is actually really high with just IE or IE PD because of good range, good animation, volley, and her slow. There's a reason vayne and kog aren't played every game. Endgame damage, not midgame ^^ Add LW and BT in there and the gap is even smaller. You saw hotshots cho with randunis and frozen heart melt in 5 seconds or less in hannover. In lategame being harder to catch with CC and having a huge slow means you do a lot more damage than carries with "more damage" in a lot of games. Nobody cares about your potential damage if everyone leaves you alone for 10 seconds. You don't see people playing rumble and fiddle and cass constantly because they do lots of damage lategame. Kog has huge range a nice slow and good poke, vayne has huge mobility and true damage, tristana has huge range and a 2 escapes. People play ashe for damage just as much as people play tristana for damage, and they all have their own utility. So basically you're saying her endgame damage is worse then any other carry but she can hit stuff easily, like i was saying as well. And the only games you'd do more damage in teamfights with ashe then other ads (with same farm) is when your team is lacking in disables; imo she shines in comps with vlad/shyvana type champs (low cc/high damage&tankiness)
Ashe is strong in much of the same way trist is so strong lategame; her kit allows her to pewpew way more reliably than a sivir/mf/kog. Hence, even if her theoretical damage output is lower, in actual games (especially soloQ) she should outperform them.
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On April 13 2012 20:22 Schwopzi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 19:30 Slayer91 wrote:On April 13 2012 19:21 Schwopzi wrote:On April 13 2012 19:16 Slayer91 wrote:
Ashes damage in practical circumstances is actually really high with just IE or IE PD because of good range, good animation, volley, and her slow. There's a reason vayne and kog aren't played every game. Endgame damage, not midgame ^^ Add LW and BT in there and the gap is even smaller. You saw hotshots cho with randunis and frozen heart melt in 5 seconds or less in hannover. In lategame being harder to catch with CC and having a huge slow means you do a lot more damage than carries with "more damage" in a lot of games. Nobody cares about your potential damage if everyone leaves you alone for 10 seconds. You don't see people playing rumble and fiddle and cass constantly because they do lots of damage lategame. Kog has huge range a nice slow and good poke, vayne has huge mobility and true damage, tristana has huge range and a 2 escapes. People play ashe for damage just as much as people play tristana for damage, and they all have their own utility. So basically you're saying her endgame damage is worse then any other carry but she can hit stuff easily, like i was saying as well. And the only games you'd do more damage in teamfights with ashe then other ads (with same farm) is when your team is lacking in disables; imo she shines in comps with vlad/shyvana type champs (low cc/high damage&tankiness)
"And the only games you'd do more damage in teamfights with ashe then other ads (with same farm) is when your team is lacking in disables"
Blatantly not true. AD carry isn't standing still and attacking people. You're the biggest threat on the game. If there's any opportunity at all to get to you they'll take it. You can say ashe does less damage on a target dummy but in a lot of teamfights ashe will get damage in where other ad carries might be zoned. If she is zoned, volley is a ridiculous range aoe poke and slow.
Sure you can say well ashe theoretically does less damage per second maximum but if the question is on the viability of ashe and it's basing her as bad because she "does less damage" then I want that argument to be discarded. If ashe gets shut down in lane or versus bursty gap closer champs you can say sure, ashe is worse than escape ADs and will do very little damage, but with the non gap closer bruisers that are popular in jungle right now ashe is pretty damn good.
", in actual games (especially soloQ)"
why would you randomly through in solo queue here? You can say other carries are MORE effective in solo queue because chances of weird positioned fights and people getting caught is more likely so you'll get to use your damage, while im competitive people are generally more close to together so things like CC range and escapes are all extremely important.
Ashe was dropped when dignitas started running double assassins and everyone was playing jarvan and irelia, she started getting picked again now. I think if people stick to these double AP comps again MF might make a return. MF was a EU popular AD when both teams ran double AP aoe comps and mfs ult range allowed her to safely contribute to that and her speed was great for avoiding something like a kennen flash ult.
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On April 13 2012 20:31 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 20:22 Schwopzi wrote:On April 13 2012 19:30 Slayer91 wrote:On April 13 2012 19:21 Schwopzi wrote:On April 13 2012 19:16 Slayer91 wrote:
Ashes damage in practical circumstances is actually really high with just IE or IE PD because of good range, good animation, volley, and her slow. There's a reason vayne and kog aren't played every game. Endgame damage, not midgame ^^ Add LW and BT in there and the gap is even smaller. You saw hotshots cho with randunis and frozen heart melt in 5 seconds or less in hannover. In lategame being harder to catch with CC and having a huge slow means you do a lot more damage than carries with "more damage" in a lot of games. Nobody cares about your potential damage if everyone leaves you alone for 10 seconds. You don't see people playing rumble and fiddle and cass constantly because they do lots of damage lategame. Kog has huge range a nice slow and good poke, vayne has huge mobility and true damage, tristana has huge range and a 2 escapes. People play ashe for damage just as much as people play tristana for damage, and they all have their own utility. So basically you're saying her endgame damage is worse then any other carry but she can hit stuff easily, like i was saying as well. And the only games you'd do more damage in teamfights with ashe then other ads (with same farm) is when your team is lacking in disables; imo she shines in comps with vlad/shyvana type champs (low cc/high damage&tankiness) "And the only games you'd do more damage in teamfights with ashe then other ads (with same farm) is when your team is lacking in disables" Blatantly not true. AD carry isn't standing still and attacking people. You're the biggest threat on the game. If there's any opportunity at all to get to you they'll take it. You can say ashe does less damage on a target dummy but in a lot of teamfights ashe will get damage in where other ad carries might be zoned. If she is zoned, volley is a ridiculous range aoe poke and slow. Sure you can say well ashe theoretically does less damage per second maximum but if the question is on the viability of ashe and it's basing her as bad because she "does less damage" then I want that argument to be discarded. If ashe gets shut down in lane or versus bursty gap closer champs you can say sure, ashe is worse than escape ADs and will do very little damage, but with the non gap closer bruisers that are popular in jungle right now ashe is pretty damn good. ", in actual games (especially soloQ)" why would you randomly through in solo queue here? You can say other carries are MORE effective in solo queue because chances of weird positioned fights and people getting caught is more likely so you'll get to use your damage, while im competitive people are generally more close to together so things like CC range and escapes are all extremely important. Ashe was dropped when dignitas started running double assassins and everyone was playing jarvan and irelia, she started getting picked again now. I think if people stick to these double AP comps again MF might make a return. MF was a EU popular AD when both teams ran double AP aoe comps and mfs ult range allowed her to safely contribute to that and her speed was great for avoiding something like a kennen flash ult.
Not to step on anybodies toes but is there an actual calculation of the flat dps between the different carries? I tried to find one and wasn't successful.
I think another very important point about Ashe is, that you can't really disengage from her. The q is just to strong once it is maxed out. I also think that is what happened in the CLG/TSM games. Chaox arrows didn't even hit that often. But once he could aa someone, the person usually went down because they couldn't run away.
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On April 13 2012 20:31 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 20:22 Schwopzi wrote:On April 13 2012 19:30 Slayer91 wrote:On April 13 2012 19:21 Schwopzi wrote:On April 13 2012 19:16 Slayer91 wrote:
Ashes damage in practical circumstances is actually really high with just IE or IE PD because of good range, good animation, volley, and her slow. There's a reason vayne and kog aren't played every game. Endgame damage, not midgame ^^ Add LW and BT in there and the gap is even smaller. You saw hotshots cho with randunis and frozen heart melt in 5 seconds or less in hannover. In lategame being harder to catch with CC and having a huge slow means you do a lot more damage than carries with "more damage" in a lot of games. Nobody cares about your potential damage if everyone leaves you alone for 10 seconds. You don't see people playing rumble and fiddle and cass constantly because they do lots of damage lategame. Kog has huge range a nice slow and good poke, vayne has huge mobility and true damage, tristana has huge range and a 2 escapes. People play ashe for damage just as much as people play tristana for damage, and they all have their own utility. So basically you're saying her endgame damage is worse then any other carry but she can hit stuff easily, like i was saying as well. And the only games you'd do more damage in teamfights with ashe then other ads (with same farm) is when your team is lacking in disables; imo she shines in comps with vlad/shyvana type champs (low cc/high damage&tankiness) "And the only games you'd do more damage in teamfights with ashe then other ads (with same farm) is when your team is lacking in disables" Blatantly not true. AD carry isn't standing still and attacking people. You're the biggest threat on the game. If there's any opportunity at all to get to you they'll take it. You can say ashe does less damage on a target dummy but in a lot of teamfights ashe will get damage in where other ad carries might be zoned. If she is zoned, volley is a ridiculous range aoe poke and slow. Sure you can say well ashe theoretically does less damage per second maximum but if the question is on the viability of ashe and it's basing her as bad because she "does less damage" then I want that argument to be discarded. If ashe gets shut down in lane or versus bursty gap closer champs you can say sure, ashe is worse than escape ADs and will do very little damage, but with the non gap closer bruisers that are popular in jungle right now ashe is pretty damn good. ", in actual games (especially soloQ)" why would you randomly through in solo queue here? You can say other carries are MORE effective in solo queue because chances of weird positioned fights and people getting caught is more likely so you'll get to use your damage, while im competitive people are generally more close to together so things like CC range and escapes are all extremely important. Ashe was dropped when dignitas started running double assassins and everyone was playing jarvan and irelia, she started getting picked again now. I think if people stick to these double AP comps again MF might make a return. MF was a EU popular AD when both teams ran double AP aoe comps and mfs ult range allowed her to safely contribute to that and her speed was great for avoiding something like a kennen flash ult.
She gets less damage in because she cant reposition as easily as a lot of carries. And if you have to rely purely on volley you've allready lost.
Also dies as a little bitch to nocturne/olaf
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To be honest I feel relieved when an MF is ulting in end game. I just think to myself "well at least she's not autoattacking" lol.
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On April 13 2012 20:41 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 20:31 Slayer91 wrote:On April 13 2012 20:22 Schwopzi wrote:On April 13 2012 19:30 Slayer91 wrote:On April 13 2012 19:21 Schwopzi wrote:On April 13 2012 19:16 Slayer91 wrote:
Ashes damage in practical circumstances is actually really high with just IE or IE PD because of good range, good animation, volley, and her slow. There's a reason vayne and kog aren't played every game. Endgame damage, not midgame ^^ Add LW and BT in there and the gap is even smaller. You saw hotshots cho with randunis and frozen heart melt in 5 seconds or less in hannover. In lategame being harder to catch with CC and having a huge slow means you do a lot more damage than carries with "more damage" in a lot of games. Nobody cares about your potential damage if everyone leaves you alone for 10 seconds. You don't see people playing rumble and fiddle and cass constantly because they do lots of damage lategame. Kog has huge range a nice slow and good poke, vayne has huge mobility and true damage, tristana has huge range and a 2 escapes. People play ashe for damage just as much as people play tristana for damage, and they all have their own utility. So basically you're saying her endgame damage is worse then any other carry but she can hit stuff easily, like i was saying as well. And the only games you'd do more damage in teamfights with ashe then other ads (with same farm) is when your team is lacking in disables; imo she shines in comps with vlad/shyvana type champs (low cc/high damage&tankiness) "And the only games you'd do more damage in teamfights with ashe then other ads (with same farm) is when your team is lacking in disables" Blatantly not true. AD carry isn't standing still and attacking people. You're the biggest threat on the game. If there's any opportunity at all to get to you they'll take it. You can say ashe does less damage on a target dummy but in a lot of teamfights ashe will get damage in where other ad carries might be zoned. If she is zoned, volley is a ridiculous range aoe poke and slow. Sure you can say well ashe theoretically does less damage per second maximum but if the question is on the viability of ashe and it's basing her as bad because she "does less damage" then I want that argument to be discarded. If ashe gets shut down in lane or versus bursty gap closer champs you can say sure, ashe is worse than escape ADs and will do very little damage, but with the non gap closer bruisers that are popular in jungle right now ashe is pretty damn good. ", in actual games (especially soloQ)" why would you randomly through in solo queue here? You can say other carries are MORE effective in solo queue because chances of weird positioned fights and people getting caught is more likely so you'll get to use your damage, while im competitive people are generally more close to together so things like CC range and escapes are all extremely important. Ashe was dropped when dignitas started running double assassins and everyone was playing jarvan and irelia, she started getting picked again now. I think if people stick to these double AP comps again MF might make a return. MF was a EU popular AD when both teams ran double AP aoe comps and mfs ult range allowed her to safely contribute to that and her speed was great for avoiding something like a kennen flash ult. Not to step on anybodies toes but is there an actual calculation of the flat dps between the different carries? I tried to find one and wasn't successful.
Yes, go to lolwiki, find the champ you want and look at their base dmg, and AD per level. You can calculate it from there.
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Or you could go straight to this nifty page: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_champions'_attack_damage
But that's not DPS, that's just flat AD, you have to factor in attack speed and crit chance (most relevant to Ashe because of her passive) as well. And anyway, it's a completely irrelevant statistic because LoL is not played in a vacuum. Math is only 5% of the battle (made up number).
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Froggen invents yet another build for anivia lol:
trinity force
leviathan
hextech gunbalde
randuins
merc threads
archangles.
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On April 13 2012 21:46 dooraven wrote:
Froggen invents yet another build for anivia lol:
trinity force
leviathan
hextech gunbalde
randuins
merc threads
archangles.
Froggens anivia?Sounds legit.
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90% of a carry's 4-6 item damage comes from those items. And even that last 10% or so isnt that big a difference. Mathematically, Corki and Vayne have very simmilar damage outputs with items.
Hell, ask any top player and they will tell you that Trist is still the best late game carry.
The only actual differentiating factor is how the ad carry plays. What Ashe loses in direct AA scaling she makes up in having an instant aoe slow, constant slow, and global stun. In fact, she probably has some of the most CONSISTENT late game damage because of it. The reason vayne is so good isnt her w proc (cuz every other ad carry has something that will cause simmilar damage increases) its the fact she is so mobile IN the fight.
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On April 13 2012 21:47 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 21:46 dooraven wrote:
Froggen invents yet another build for anivia lol:
trinity force
leviathan
hextech gunbalde
randuins
merc threads
archangles. Froggens anivia?Sounds legit.
You think he just does this to troll the same way we do in bot games?
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On April 13 2012 21:32 miicah wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 20:41 BlueSpace wrote:On April 13 2012 20:31 Slayer91 wrote:On April 13 2012 20:22 Schwopzi wrote:On April 13 2012 19:30 Slayer91 wrote:On April 13 2012 19:21 Schwopzi wrote:On April 13 2012 19:16 Slayer91 wrote:
Ashes damage in practical circumstances is actually really high with just IE or IE PD because of good range, good animation, volley, and her slow. There's a reason vayne and kog aren't played every game. Endgame damage, not midgame ^^ Add LW and BT in there and the gap is even smaller. You saw hotshots cho with randunis and frozen heart melt in 5 seconds or less in hannover. In lategame being harder to catch with CC and having a huge slow means you do a lot more damage than carries with "more damage" in a lot of games. Nobody cares about your potential damage if everyone leaves you alone for 10 seconds. You don't see people playing rumble and fiddle and cass constantly because they do lots of damage lategame. Kog has huge range a nice slow and good poke, vayne has huge mobility and true damage, tristana has huge range and a 2 escapes. People play ashe for damage just as much as people play tristana for damage, and they all have their own utility. So basically you're saying her endgame damage is worse then any other carry but she can hit stuff easily, like i was saying as well. And the only games you'd do more damage in teamfights with ashe then other ads (with same farm) is when your team is lacking in disables; imo she shines in comps with vlad/shyvana type champs (low cc/high damage&tankiness) "And the only games you'd do more damage in teamfights with ashe then other ads (with same farm) is when your team is lacking in disables" Blatantly not true. AD carry isn't standing still and attacking people. You're the biggest threat on the game. If there's any opportunity at all to get to you they'll take it. You can say ashe does less damage on a target dummy but in a lot of teamfights ashe will get damage in where other ad carries might be zoned. If she is zoned, volley is a ridiculous range aoe poke and slow. Sure you can say well ashe theoretically does less damage per second maximum but if the question is on the viability of ashe and it's basing her as bad because she "does less damage" then I want that argument to be discarded. If ashe gets shut down in lane or versus bursty gap closer champs you can say sure, ashe is worse than escape ADs and will do very little damage, but with the non gap closer bruisers that are popular in jungle right now ashe is pretty damn good. ", in actual games (especially soloQ)" why would you randomly through in solo queue here? You can say other carries are MORE effective in solo queue because chances of weird positioned fights and people getting caught is more likely so you'll get to use your damage, while im competitive people are generally more close to together so things like CC range and escapes are all extremely important. Ashe was dropped when dignitas started running double assassins and everyone was playing jarvan and irelia, she started getting picked again now. I think if people stick to these double AP comps again MF might make a return. MF was a EU popular AD when both teams ran double AP aoe comps and mfs ult range allowed her to safely contribute to that and her speed was great for avoiding something like a kennen flash ult. Not to step on anybodies toes but is there an actual calculation of the flat dps between the different carries? I tried to find one and wasn't successful. Yes, go to lolwiki, find the champ you want and look at their base dmg, and AD per level. You can calculate it from there.
Yeah I was interested in the actual calculation because people were ranking the carries in terms of dps and while you might ignore active abilities many heroes have some sort of passive that will factor heavily. So I guess the answer is no.
On April 13 2012 21:35 Inschato wrote:Or you could go straight to this nifty page: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_champions'_attack_damageBut that's not DPS, that's just flat AD, you have to factor in attack speed and crit chance (most relevant to Ashe because of her passive) as well. And anyway, it's a completely irrelevant statistic because LoL is not played in a vacuum. Math is only 5% of the battle (made up number).
Actually LoL is 100% math because it is played on a computer (made up number  ). Also I know that there is an overwhelming urge to dismiss all quantitative approaches to a complex problem, because it seems as if the variables are to hard to control. But one should be able to quantify the damage an ad carry causes when he is allowed to freely use his abilities. The result of such an investigation might indeed be that the damage between different carries is very similar. The conclusion from there would be that indeed the playstyle/utility/range or other factors are more important. In any case without actually doing the calculation you cannot safely conclude, that the numbers are irrelevant.
So maybe if I have time tonight I will sit down and look into it. Shouldn't be to hard to do. Just wanted to make sure that nobody had already done it.
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It's impossible for 90% of vayne's damage to be her items. Her Q alone is a 50% damage increase every 2 seconds ignoring her ult and W. Whatever her items are her spammability in her Q steroid multiplies them more than 10% in a fight.
edit: and while purely mathematically Kog's damage wouldn't be, i'd say effectively his W is more than 10% of his damage just because it allows him to be kogmaw and shoot from a mile away to actually put out his damage without dying.
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On April 13 2012 20:41 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 20:31 Slayer91 wrote:On April 13 2012 20:22 Schwopzi wrote:On April 13 2012 19:30 Slayer91 wrote:On April 13 2012 19:21 Schwopzi wrote:On April 13 2012 19:16 Slayer91 wrote:
Ashes damage in practical circumstances is actually really high with just IE or IE PD because of good range, good animation, volley, and her slow. There's a reason vayne and kog aren't played every game. Endgame damage, not midgame ^^ Add LW and BT in there and the gap is even smaller. You saw hotshots cho with randunis and frozen heart melt in 5 seconds or less in hannover. In lategame being harder to catch with CC and having a huge slow means you do a lot more damage than carries with "more damage" in a lot of games. Nobody cares about your potential damage if everyone leaves you alone for 10 seconds. You don't see people playing rumble and fiddle and cass constantly because they do lots of damage lategame. Kog has huge range a nice slow and good poke, vayne has huge mobility and true damage, tristana has huge range and a 2 escapes. People play ashe for damage just as much as people play tristana for damage, and they all have their own utility. So basically you're saying her endgame damage is worse then any other carry but she can hit stuff easily, like i was saying as well. And the only games you'd do more damage in teamfights with ashe then other ads (with same farm) is when your team is lacking in disables; imo she shines in comps with vlad/shyvana type champs (low cc/high damage&tankiness) "And the only games you'd do more damage in teamfights with ashe then other ads (with same farm) is when your team is lacking in disables" Blatantly not true. AD carry isn't standing still and attacking people. You're the biggest threat on the game. If there's any opportunity at all to get to you they'll take it. You can say ashe does less damage on a target dummy but in a lot of teamfights ashe will get damage in where other ad carries might be zoned. If she is zoned, volley is a ridiculous range aoe poke and slow. Sure you can say well ashe theoretically does less damage per second maximum but if the question is on the viability of ashe and it's basing her as bad because she "does less damage" then I want that argument to be discarded. If ashe gets shut down in lane or versus bursty gap closer champs you can say sure, ashe is worse than escape ADs and will do very little damage, but with the non gap closer bruisers that are popular in jungle right now ashe is pretty damn good. ", in actual games (especially soloQ)" why would you randomly through in solo queue here? You can say other carries are MORE effective in solo queue because chances of weird positioned fights and people getting caught is more likely so you'll get to use your damage, while im competitive people are generally more close to together so things like CC range and escapes are all extremely important. Ashe was dropped when dignitas started running double assassins and everyone was playing jarvan and irelia, she started getting picked again now. I think if people stick to these double AP comps again MF might make a return. MF was a EU popular AD when both teams ran double AP aoe comps and mfs ult range allowed her to safely contribute to that and her speed was great for avoiding something like a kennen flash ult. Not to step on anybodies toes but is there an actual calculation of the flat dps between the different carries? I tried to find one and wasn't successful.
I once made a spreadsheet comparing 6 item AD carries. I can't find it now but carries varied in max DPS from 600 to 900, with ashe at the bottom and Vayne significantly at top. Kog below vayne, way below an ulting vayne (who hit something like 1000). Other carries did not have as much difference between them and sat between 650 and 800. Against tanks OFC since that's the line you're trying to break.
This was all with IE focused builds because anyone (like corki/ez) who uses triforce in a 6 item build loses so much raw DPS it's not even close to fair.
Given what I remember of the spreadsheet, then, Ashe matching up with most other DPS champs lategame is pretty plausible. For the mid-high end she just has to get 25% more opportunities to attack which is pretty plausible in a kiting scenario. I don't think she realistically does more DPS than Trist or Vayne though, Kog maybe if only because he's W reliant and it can screw his positioning if it wears off at the wrong time.
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On April 13 2012 19:40 De4ngus wrote:
ya lategame ashe scary as fuk. big dmg and arrows are op.
i am trying to learn at least on character from each area (support, AD carry, solo top, junger, and mid) and ashe is my pick for AD carry.
arrows are cool, and ashe has good damage, but it seems like their tank always runs straight into me and i end up getting zoned every team fight or I just die. without an escape it's really hard to survive team fights (malphite/udyr/mundo are usually the type of champs who get me). is this my fault or is it likely that my team should be doing more to protect me?
i have been thinking of trying tristana instead for the jump just becuase my ashe gets focused to easily.
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On April 13 2012 22:13 TwoToneTerran wrote:
It's impossible for 90% of vayne's damage to be her items. Her Q alone is a 50% damage increase every 2 seconds ignoring her ult and W.
Her Q also has an extremely long cast animation. At lvl 18 with a PD and Berserker's Greaves, I wouldn't be surprised if you actually LOST damage by using Q (assuming you could freely autoattack otherwise of course).
On April 13 2012 22:27 ishboh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 19:40 De4ngus wrote:
ya lategame ashe scary as fuk. big dmg and arrows are op. i am trying to learn at least on character from each area (support, AD carry, solo top, junger, and mid) and ashe is my pick for AD carry. arrows are cool, and ashe has good damage, but it seems like their tank always runs straight into me and i end up getting zoned every team fight or I just die. without an escape it's really hard to survive team fights (malphite/udyr/mundo are usually the type of champs who get me). is this my fault or is it likely that my team should be doing more to protect me? i have been thinking of trying tristana instead for the jump just becuase my ashe gets focused to easily.
If you actually try to kite the tank and focus squishier targets as soon as they get in range by themselves, it's your team. If you try to attack something else behind the enemy tank (assuming he's a threat to you), it's your fault.
Sadly people have this "DONT FOCUS THE TANK", "FOCUS THE AD/AP" crap burnt into their minds. Often focusing the tank IS the best thing your team can do until a squishier enemy brings himself into range.
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EPT
