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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! |
On April 13 2012 15:51 Requizen wrote:
So... how do people "rank" the various AD carries nowadays? I've only seen a lot of Ashe, Kog, and Vayne in tourneys, with a couple others smattered about. Who do you like to see on your team, all things held even (skill level, etc)? Who do you think is behind in the rankings?
In solo queue all of the AD carries are equally good if you know how to utilize their strengths.
At the competitive level, it comes down to how good your team is at protecting the enemy carry, how strong your bot lane is at winning their lane/picking a good matchup.
If you want an AD carry that your team protects, Trist Kog are the strongest. According to Doublelift, Kog saw a lot of play time at IPL because he counters Corki in lane and Corki was super popular at IEM. For winning lane, Corki Graves are your best bet. Corki is probably a bit better than Graves because he's more well rounded. If your name is Doublelift, you can pick Vayne. Ashe is picked 100% for her utility and is situational; you take her to help counter split-push strategies and if you need to pick people off. Caitlyn honestly isn't all that good of an AD carry in competitive play anymore because while she does win lanes, she often can't win lane hard enough to offset her relatively bad late game. Ez is bad because Corki does everything Ez does, but better. Twitch is just too cheesy for competitive play.
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Cait is really good for poke comps.
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Cait lategame isn't that bad either. People really underrate it.
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On April 13 2012 16:05 Dandel Ion wrote:
Cait lategame isn't that bad either. People really underrate it.
It's bad relative to the other AD champs.
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You forgot MF and Sivir.
I know MF isn't played that much because of het bad late-game and her lack of escape but I don't know why Sivir is not played anymore. Her Q is still hurting a lot if you can get a clean double hit with it. (And pro support have picked Taric quite often, so it shouldn't be too hard). She has no escape but can E a CC and R if necessery to flee. Is her bad range the main reason she isn't played ?
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On April 13 2012 16:06 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 16:05 Dandel Ion wrote:
Cait lategame isn't that bad either. People really underrate it. It's bad relative to the other AD champs.
MF, Urgot and Ez all have worse lategame, and Cait does about as well in lane as them (except Urgot).
It's not bad.
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On April 13 2012 16:09 Razhil wrote:
You forgot MF and Sivir.
I know MF isn't played that much because of het bad late-game and her lack of escape but I don't know why Sivir is not played anymore. Her Q is still hurting a lot if you can get a clean double hit with it. (And pro support have picked Taric quite often, so it shouldn't be too hard). She has no escape but can E a CC and R if necessery to flee. Is her bad range the main reason she isn't played ?
MF is strong if you plan on running a very dominating lane like Taric/MF. The biggest problem with that is a really strong bot duo can survive against a MF lane and come out ahead in the long run. Same deal with Urgot, but the difference is Urgot becomes more of a bruiser/initiator later, which is much more useful than MF.
Sivir is still strong. She just fell out of favor after her nerfs, but imo she's still viable in the right comps. I would say she's not played because the pro scene is quiet fickle. However, her bad range definitely doesn't help and in terms of raw dps she falls behind some of the more popular picks atm. Still, her ulti is still amazing and her burst potential in lane is still very high.
On April 13 2012 16:11 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 16:06 Ryuu314 wrote:On April 13 2012 16:05 Dandel Ion wrote:
Cait lategame isn't that bad either. People really underrate it. It's bad relative to the other AD champs. MF, Urgot and Ez all have worse lategame, and Cait does about as well in lane as them (except Urgot). It's not bad.
Iunno if MF's lategame is worse. She has a steroid, while Cait doesn't. Whether that makes up for her lack of range I don't know. I don't play enough of MF to say anything.
Urgot plays a different role than Cait lategame. He's more of an initiator/bruiser lategame imo.
Between Ez and Cait...meh. They both suck lategame.
Let me rephrase. Cait's lategame is bad relative to most other AD carries. I mean, it's nothing to boast about when the only AD carries you're better than are unplayed or simply do different things.
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Hahaha.
Dyrus is such a cool guy. People bitches about him responding more to his fan girls than fan guys. He just says "Its just natural dude... I'm a virgin, of course I going to respond more to an attractive girl."
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On April 13 2012 16:12 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 16:09 Razhil wrote:
You forgot MF and Sivir.
I know MF isn't played that much because of het bad late-game and her lack of escape but I don't know why Sivir is not played anymore. Her Q is still hurting a lot if you can get a clean double hit with it. (And pro support have picked Taric quite often, so it shouldn't be too hard). She has no escape but can E a CC and R if necessery to flee. Is her bad range the main reason she isn't played ? MF is strong if you plan on running a very dominating lane like Taric/MF. The biggest problem with that is a really strong bot duo can survive against a MF lane and come out ahead in the long run. Same deal with Urgot, but the difference is Urgot becomes more of a bruiser/initiator later, which is much more useful than MF. Sivir is still strong. She just fell out of favor after her nerfs, but imo she's still viable in the right comps. I would say she's not played because the pro scene is quiet fickle. However, her bad range definitely doesn't help and in terms of raw dps she falls behind some of the more popular picks atm. Still, her ulti is still amazing and her burst potential in lane is still very high. Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 16:11 Dandel Ion wrote:On April 13 2012 16:06 Ryuu314 wrote:On April 13 2012 16:05 Dandel Ion wrote:
Cait lategame isn't that bad either. People really underrate it. It's bad relative to the other AD champs. MF, Urgot and Ez all have worse lategame, and Cait does about as well in lane as them (except Urgot). It's not bad. Iunno if MF's lategame is worse. She has a steroid, while Cait doesn't. Whether that makes up for her lack of range I don't know. I don't play enough of MF to say anything. Urgot plays a different role than Cait lategame. He's more of an initiator/bruiser lategame imo. Between Ez and Cait...meh. They both suck lategame. Let me rephrase. Cait's lategame is bad relative to most other AD carries. I mean, it's nothing to boast about when the only AD carries you're better than are unplayed or simply do different things.
A lot of people say Cait's lategame is bad but she has higher range than everyone except Trist/Kog W and she has good escapes from her W and E. Her passive is also pretty much a steroid, although of course not as good as say Trist Q. Quoting Chauster: "ezreal late game is ok, cait late game is very good"
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On April 13 2012 16:24 QuakerOats wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 16:12 Ryuu314 wrote:On April 13 2012 16:09 Razhil wrote:
You forgot MF and Sivir.
I know MF isn't played that much because of het bad late-game and her lack of escape but I don't know why Sivir is not played anymore. Her Q is still hurting a lot if you can get a clean double hit with it. (And pro support have picked Taric quite often, so it shouldn't be too hard). She has no escape but can E a CC and R if necessery to flee. Is her bad range the main reason she isn't played ? MF is strong if you plan on running a very dominating lane like Taric/MF. The biggest problem with that is a really strong bot duo can survive against a MF lane and come out ahead in the long run. Same deal with Urgot, but the difference is Urgot becomes more of a bruiser/initiator later, which is much more useful than MF. Sivir is still strong. She just fell out of favor after her nerfs, but imo she's still viable in the right comps. I would say she's not played because the pro scene is quiet fickle. However, her bad range definitely doesn't help and in terms of raw dps she falls behind some of the more popular picks atm. Still, her ulti is still amazing and her burst potential in lane is still very high. On April 13 2012 16:11 Dandel Ion wrote:On April 13 2012 16:06 Ryuu314 wrote:On April 13 2012 16:05 Dandel Ion wrote:
Cait lategame isn't that bad either. People really underrate it. It's bad relative to the other AD champs. MF, Urgot and Ez all have worse lategame, and Cait does about as well in lane as them (except Urgot). It's not bad. Iunno if MF's lategame is worse. She has a steroid, while Cait doesn't. Whether that makes up for her lack of range I don't know. I don't play enough of MF to say anything. Urgot plays a different role than Cait lategame. He's more of an initiator/bruiser lategame imo. Between Ez and Cait...meh. They both suck lategame. Let me rephrase. Cait's lategame is bad relative to most other AD carries. I mean, it's nothing to boast about when the only AD carries you're better than are unplayed or simply do different things. A lot of people say Cait's lategame is bad but she has higher range than everyone except Trist/Kog W and she has good escapes from her W and E. Her passive is also pretty much a steroid, although of course not as good as say Trist Q. Quoting Chauster: "ezreal late game is ok, cait late game is very good"
Cait late game is good just because of how safe it is. Trist is probably the safest with her immense range and escapibilty with W, but Cait is no pushover. Trying to kill a good cait in a team fight is brutal, and the traps are really really strong for zoning, sieging turrets, and defending objectives.
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Lulu is very strong AP mid, I would compare her to Orianna a bit before nerfs, she is great in lane and amazing utility later.
The harass is unavoidable bouncing glitterlance off of a creep.
I found a good full damage combo is you land one glitterlance, use the slow to run up and pop pix on them, then you get a free glitterlance hit the second it comes off cooldown because pix is still on them. Its a fuckton of damage on tiny CD for low manacost. I have beaten all sorts of mids, Ahri, Brand, Swain.
Only annoying thing is her AA is very shitty for last hitting early levels, but then later it gets very strong.
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god the best feeling ever is a dominating win after a huge loss streak
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I never quite understand why MF's late is bad; she has a pretty decent steroid on her with a damage boost aswell, a pretty good ultimate if you can catch a lot of people in it (which is quite often the case), she lacks escapability but is that the sole reason?
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On April 13 2012 16:24 QuakerOats wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 16:12 Ryuu314 wrote:On April 13 2012 16:09 Razhil wrote:
You forgot MF and Sivir.
I know MF isn't played that much because of het bad late-game and her lack of escape but I don't know why Sivir is not played anymore. Her Q is still hurting a lot if you can get a clean double hit with it. (And pro support have picked Taric quite often, so it shouldn't be too hard). She has no escape but can E a CC and R if necessery to flee. Is her bad range the main reason she isn't played ? MF is strong if you plan on running a very dominating lane like Taric/MF. The biggest problem with that is a really strong bot duo can survive against a MF lane and come out ahead in the long run. Same deal with Urgot, but the difference is Urgot becomes more of a bruiser/initiator later, which is much more useful than MF. Sivir is still strong. She just fell out of favor after her nerfs, but imo she's still viable in the right comps. I would say she's not played because the pro scene is quiet fickle. However, her bad range definitely doesn't help and in terms of raw dps she falls behind some of the more popular picks atm. Still, her ulti is still amazing and her burst potential in lane is still very high. On April 13 2012 16:11 Dandel Ion wrote:On April 13 2012 16:06 Ryuu314 wrote:On April 13 2012 16:05 Dandel Ion wrote:
Cait lategame isn't that bad either. People really underrate it. It's bad relative to the other AD champs. MF, Urgot and Ez all have worse lategame, and Cait does about as well in lane as them (except Urgot). It's not bad. Iunno if MF's lategame is worse. She has a steroid, while Cait doesn't. Whether that makes up for her lack of range I don't know. I don't play enough of MF to say anything. Urgot plays a different role than Cait lategame. He's more of an initiator/bruiser lategame imo. Between Ez and Cait...meh. They both suck lategame. Let me rephrase. Cait's lategame is bad relative to most other AD carries. I mean, it's nothing to boast about when the only AD carries you're better than are unplayed or simply do different things. A lot of people say Cait's lategame is bad but she has higher range than everyone except Trist/Kog W and she has good escapes from her W and E. Her passive is also pretty much a steroid, although of course not as good as say Trist Q. Quoting Chauster: "ezreal late game is ok, cait late game is very good"
Cait would be really good if they would change the ult in a way that it pierces blocking enemies and reduces the damage the final target receives while damaging intercepting target. The total damage should always be the same. Come late game Cait is an AD without an ult. She can't even clear waves with it like MF and EZ. And her ult isn't even that good in early game or mid game for that matter.
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On April 13 2012 17:48 Promises wrote:
I never quite understand why MF's late is bad; she has a pretty decent steroid on her with a damage boost aswell, a pretty good ultimate if you can catch a lot of people in it (which is quite often the case), she lacks escapability but is that the sole reason?
All I see with MF's in teamfights recently is they ulti and then back and usually i get out of it before it does too much damage
I think most other carries have more sustained damage late game. Wouldn't Graves with the same items do far more dmg in a teamfight hitting Q's everytime it's off CD than a full MF ult?
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On April 13 2012 17:48 Promises wrote:
I never quite understand why MF's late is bad; she has a pretty decent steroid on her with a damage boost aswell, a pretty good ultimate if you can catch a lot of people in it (which is quite often the case), she lacks escapability but is that the sole reason?
Low range, no escape and no defense. It's very hard to keep dealing damage without risking death. Your team needs a ton of CC to allow her to deal as much damage as other ranged ADs with more range or escapes. But that means that your team will usually deal less damage by themselves.
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On April 13 2012 17:48 Promises wrote:
I never quite understand why MF's late is bad; she has a pretty decent steroid on her with a damage boost aswell, a pretty good ultimate if you can catch a lot of people in it (which is quite often the case), she lacks escapability but is that the sole reason?
Low range, her steroid is good, but it's nothing amazing. Her skills aren't all that useful in a teamfight and her ultimate especially is hard to land most of it without some sort of aoe cc.
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Honestly, her ultimate always feels underwhelming to me, especially when put next to grave's :/
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On April 13 2012 18:07 Eiii wrote:
Honestly, her ultimate always feels underwhelming to me, especially when put next to grave's :/
Her ulti actually does less damage than just auto attacking late game.
It kind of bad.
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Solo AP lulu is so good. And she's so cute too.
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EPT
