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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! |
On April 11 2012 08:08 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 08:05 Shikyo wrote:On April 11 2012 08:04 Seuss wrote:
Nautilus W actually works exactly like Teemo Poison in an AoE. There's a flat damage portion applied the moment you attack, with a DoT that ticks 1 second later.
That also means the Teemo change coming in the next patch also applies to Nautilus (I tested it on the PBE). So if you go over 1.0 attack speed you won't munch DoT ticks any more. I'm confused, is it a buff or a nerf assuming your aspd is 0.999999? assuming your edit is correct it's a huge nerf then? o_o Huge buff. There's literally no noticeable change at .999999 attack speed. Before if you went over 1.0 you'd never get the "second" tick because your next auto attack would reset the DoT. In the next patch that's fixed, so you can safely go over 1.0 attack speed without losing damage. Edit: Just to make this absolutely clear. BEFORE: .99 AS: "First" tick does damage immediately, "Second" tick does damage 1.0 seconds later. 1.0+ AS: "First" tick does damage immediately. "Second" tick never comes because the DoT is reset before the tick due to your auto-attacks. AFTER: .99 AS: "First" tick does damage immediately, "Second" tick does damage 1.0 seconds later. 1.0+ AS: "First" tick does damage immediately. "Second" tick does damage 1.0 seconds later, and keeps ticking every 1.0 seconds as long as you keep auto-attacking (the "First" tick still occurring with each auto-attack). So you don't lose any damage in any scenario; you gain damage for any 1.0+ AS scenario.
i'm a bit confused, so to clarify:
if W added 50 damage, and you have 1.0 AS, does that mean the target would take +50 damage from the first aa and then +100 damage from subsequent aa's (50 for second tick of previous attack, and another 50 for first tick of current attack)?
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Nevermind, Rincent is NA. I know who you're talking about though, can't remember name.
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On April 11 2012 08:56 danana wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 08:08 Seuss wrote:On April 11 2012 08:05 Shikyo wrote:On April 11 2012 08:04 Seuss wrote:
Nautilus W actually works exactly like Teemo Poison in an AoE. There's a flat damage portion applied the moment you attack, with a DoT that ticks 1 second later.
That also means the Teemo change coming in the next patch also applies to Nautilus (I tested it on the PBE). So if you go over 1.0 attack speed you won't munch DoT ticks any more. I'm confused, is it a buff or a nerf assuming your aspd is 0.999999? assuming your edit is correct it's a huge nerf then? o_o Huge buff. There's literally no noticeable change at .999999 attack speed. Before if you went over 1.0 you'd never get the "second" tick because your next auto attack would reset the DoT. In the next patch that's fixed, so you can safely go over 1.0 attack speed without losing damage. Edit: Just to make this absolutely clear. BEFORE: .99 AS: "First" tick does damage immediately, "Second" tick does damage 1.0 seconds later. 1.0+ AS: "First" tick does damage immediately. "Second" tick never comes because the DoT is reset before the tick due to your auto-attacks. AFTER: .99 AS: "First" tick does damage immediately, "Second" tick does damage 1.0 seconds later. 1.0+ AS: "First" tick does damage immediately. "Second" tick does damage 1.0 seconds later, and keeps ticking every 1.0 seconds as long as you keep auto-attacking (the "First" tick still occurring with each auto-attack). So you don't lose any damage in any scenario; you gain damage for any 1.0+ AS scenario. i'm a bit confused, so to clarify: if W added 50 damage, and you have 1.0 AS, does that mean the target would take +50 damage from the first aa and then +100 damage from subsequent aa's (50 for second tick of previous attack, and another 50 for first tick of current attack)?
Basically, it works like this:
Having W up makes your autoattacks apply and refresh a DoT. This dot has a duration of 1 second, and ticks every 1 second, which means if you hit someone once, it ticks once. Alongside applying/refreshing the DoT, it also makes every attack do the bonus damage. So if you hit once there are two ticks to the damage, once when you first attack, and one more after a second.
So after the patch, with W up, you can keep a DoT up that ticks every second, along with dealing that damage every time you hit to refresh it.
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How is it possible for me to gain elo? I'm always playing relatively well but still manage to be stuck at a rating because I get feeders and a lot more 4v5 games than I would expect  . Games are almost always one sided and solo queue has been feeling like a game of chance lately and I don't really know how to improve.
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On April 11 2012 09:31 wussleeQ wrote:How is it possible for me to gain elo? I'm always playing relatively well but still manage to be stuck at a rating because I get feeders and a lot more 4v5 games than I would expect . Games are almost always one sided and solo queue has been feeling like a game of chance lately and I don't really know how to improve.
If you hold at least a 50% win rate you will eventually climb the ladder.Just keep on playing,its possible that your having a bad streak right now but if you stay at your current elo for a long time it means that its pretty much where you belong and that you need to improve in order to go higher.
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On April 11 2012 08:40 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 08:34 HazMat wrote:
I don't understand why people have so much hate for teammates that pick twitch. He's pretty much old eve all over again. He ganks everyone which makes them start QQ'ing at teammates and so they surrender at 20 mins. It's so easy.
Oh and Jungle Riven is just amazing. I've had 5 jungle rivens this week, and I fully blame IPL and the bunny skin for all 5 losses. I'm not sure how, but i've never seen someone not majorly suck with her in my games. Jungle Riven isn't even that hard, and they still get counterjungled by a Fiddles 2 levels above them (no kills up to that point from either) and crazy stuff like that. Jungle riven seems to be a retard-magnet of colossal proportions.
Its really easy with jungle riven to run all offense runes and masteries and then have no health in the jungle. Her first clear can be kinda rough since she has no in-built sustain. So probably people are trying to play her first clear like other jungles then having no health and needing to recall a lot early.
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she may have no built in sustain but you could probably open vamp sceptor on her and do fine so it doesnt really matter.
On April 11 2012 09:37 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 09:31 wussleeQ wrote:How is it possible for me to gain elo? I'm always playing relatively well but still manage to be stuck at a rating because I get feeders and a lot more 4v5 games than I would expect . Games are almost always one sided and solo queue has been feeling like a game of chance lately and I don't really know how to improve. If you hold at least a 50% win rate you will eventually climb the ladder.Just keep on playing,its possible that your having a bad streak right now but if you stay at your current elo for a long time it means that its pretty much where you belong and that you need to improve in order to go higher.
the main reason for people getting frustrated at elo is that theres a certain randomness to any system, so you need to play x number of games to go up, assuming you deserve it. but becuase you are only 1/5th of a team your input is watered down by 80%. so it takes 5 times more games than would be expected to get to your real elo.
so of the people who deserve to be higher there is a large number who simply havent played enough games yet to get where they should be.
the randomness of skill is also increased because people are dropped in at 1200 elo rather than at the same elo as their normal (hidden) elo. this leads to increased randomness as people of varying skill are purposefully placed against each other constantly in ranked.
its crazy lol even uses a placement game system when you first play ranked, when youve been doing 100+ placement games to get to 30 in the first place.
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On April 11 2012 05:28 Two_DoWn wrote:
Well, you may think skarner is good still, but he NEVER was a great competitive pick, even prior to the nerf. His tourney record was abysmal.
I also still think naut isnt very good. I just dont like him.
But as much flack as I get for this, its the simple truth: Pro players are just as fickle as the rest of the community. Unless someone beats them over the head with something THEY WILL NOT PLAY IT. They dont have some sort of magical understanding of every champ in the game. Unless they see it, they wont play it.
With the exeption of Naut I feel the same way. None of the pro's so much as touched Shyvana untill M5 showed her potential, and now she's a staple in quite some teams. It feels like most pro's have limited time to play and practise, so the heroes they choose to play and practise with are the ones that to them have the best chance of succes, which are usually the ones best known. I feel that for slightly smaller pools of champions (AD/support) there's some more variation to try out different champs but certainly for AP and often Top/jungle it seems that only FotM's get played (with the exeption of certain adventurous teams).
About Naut, I think he's quite good, but top or mid and in certain match-ups. As a jungler I feel he's slightly too slow and he doesn't do well without a lot of farm, and I feel in certain match-ups he does really well in top, and (although i haven't tried this myself at all, so this is just hearsay) apparantly mid aswell. End game he's just such a strong frontline presence, and the control his ult, pull and slow give are just awesome combined with his tankyness.
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On April 11 2012 09:44 turdburgler wrote:
[...]
its crazy lol even uses a placement game system when you first play ranked, when youve been doing 100+ placement games to get to 30 in the first place.
Not that I'd recommend doing that, but theoretically you can get 30 without ever playing a normal game.
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On April 11 2012 05:28 Two_DoWn wrote:
Well, you may think skarner is good still, but he NEVER was a great competitive pick, even prior to the nerf. His tourney record was abysmal.
I also still think naut isnt very good. I just dont like him.
But as much flack as I get for this, its the simple truth: Pro players are just as fickle as the rest of the community. Unless someone beats them over the head with something THEY WILL NOT PLAY IT. They dont have some sort of magical understanding of every champ in the game. Unless they see it, they wont play it.
I don't understand why Skarner's record isn't that good, though. He's not like Trynd or Yi, where he excels in solo queue but a coordinated team can shut him down. He still has powerful ganks, dat ult, tankiness, and fast clearing. I think if he was practiced more, he'd be better in tourneys. I honestly like him a lot better than Udyr, who sees a lot of play.
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ugh im tilting so bad today 1-10 as vlad in one game
volibear ganked this tf top and took every kill and he dropped off so hard lategame we couldn't do anything
still my fault though. i feel like im starting to hit that skill wall where im just gonna be around mid 1300 elo forever
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Even at theoretically totally perfect rating system would produce percieved suboptimal matchups. Players are never a certain "amount" good at the game, it heavily varies based on heroes, matchups, time of day....
Consistency is remotely possible with fixed teams and roles but requiring every match to be premade 5v5 would be lunacy.
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On April 11 2012 08:40 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 08:34 HazMat wrote:
I don't understand why people have so much hate for teammates that pick twitch. He's pretty much old eve all over again. He ganks everyone which makes them start QQ'ing at teammates and so they surrender at 20 mins. It's so easy.
Oh and Jungle Riven is just amazing. I've had 5 jungle rivens this week, and I fully blame IPL and the bunny skin for all 5 losses. I'm not sure how, but i've never seen someone not majorly suck with her in my games. Jungle Riven isn't even that hard, and they still get counterjungled by a Fiddles 2 levels above them (no kills up to that point from either) and crazy stuff like that. Jungle riven seems to be a retard-magnet of colossal proportions.
just played a game with a jungle riven whose route was double golems with a ton of damage from me > wipe on red with leash > back
like how does it even occur to people to jungle a champ without even finding out a route you can do without dying in customs/normals first before you do it in a ranked game
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On April 11 2012 09:58 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 05:28 Two_DoWn wrote:
Well, you may think skarner is good still, but he NEVER was a great competitive pick, even prior to the nerf. His tourney record was abysmal.
I also still think naut isnt very good. I just dont like him.
But as much flack as I get for this, its the simple truth: Pro players are just as fickle as the rest of the community. Unless someone beats them over the head with something THEY WILL NOT PLAY IT. They dont have some sort of magical understanding of every champ in the game. Unless they see it, they wont play it. I don't understand why Skarner's record isn't that good, though. He's not like Trynd or Yi, where he excels in solo queue but a coordinated team can shut him down. He still has powerful ganks, dat ult, tankiness, and fast clearing. I think if he was practiced more, he'd be better in tourneys. I honestly like him a lot better than Udyr, who sees a lot of play.
No, thats pretty much exactly why he isnt played. A coordinated team DOES shut him down hard. Not to mention a LOT of common mids shit all over him at all stages of the game. Cass, Ryze, and Ahri all shit on what he wants to do.
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On April 11 2012 10:10 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 09:58 Requizen wrote:On April 11 2012 05:28 Two_DoWn wrote:
Well, you may think skarner is good still, but he NEVER was a great competitive pick, even prior to the nerf. His tourney record was abysmal.
I also still think naut isnt very good. I just dont like him.
But as much flack as I get for this, its the simple truth: Pro players are just as fickle as the rest of the community. Unless someone beats them over the head with something THEY WILL NOT PLAY IT. They dont have some sort of magical understanding of every champ in the game. Unless they see it, they wont play it. I don't understand why Skarner's record isn't that good, though. He's not like Trynd or Yi, where he excels in solo queue but a coordinated team can shut him down. He still has powerful ganks, dat ult, tankiness, and fast clearing. I think if he was practiced more, he'd be better in tourneys. I honestly like him a lot better than Udyr, who sees a lot of play. No, thats pretty much exactly why he isnt played. A coordinated team DOES shut him down hard. Not to mention a LOT of common mids shit all over him at all stages of the game. Cass, Ryze, and Ahri all shit on what he wants to do.
What about skarner makes him so shitty compared to say Udyr?
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On April 11 2012 10:08 chalice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 08:40 Dandel Ion wrote:On April 11 2012 08:34 HazMat wrote:
I don't understand why people have so much hate for teammates that pick twitch. He's pretty much old eve all over again. He ganks everyone which makes them start QQ'ing at teammates and so they surrender at 20 mins. It's so easy.
Oh and Jungle Riven is just amazing. I've had 5 jungle rivens this week, and I fully blame IPL and the bunny skin for all 5 losses. I'm not sure how, but i've never seen someone not majorly suck with her in my games. Jungle Riven isn't even that hard, and they still get counterjungled by a Fiddles 2 levels above them (no kills up to that point from either) and crazy stuff like that. Jungle riven seems to be a retard-magnet of colossal proportions. just played a game with a jungle riven whose route was double golems with a ton of damage from me > wipe on red with leash > back like how does it even occur to people to jungle a champ without even finding out a route you can do without dying in customs/normals first before you do it in a ranked game
How'd that Riven do? LOL.
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score was actually respectable for such a bad start considering we lost all 3 first tier towers in like 10 min
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On April 11 2012 10:10 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 09:58 Requizen wrote:On April 11 2012 05:28 Two_DoWn wrote:
Well, you may think skarner is good still, but he NEVER was a great competitive pick, even prior to the nerf. His tourney record was abysmal.
I also still think naut isnt very good. I just dont like him.
But as much flack as I get for this, its the simple truth: Pro players are just as fickle as the rest of the community. Unless someone beats them over the head with something THEY WILL NOT PLAY IT. They dont have some sort of magical understanding of every champ in the game. Unless they see it, they wont play it. I don't understand why Skarner's record isn't that good, though. He's not like Trynd or Yi, where he excels in solo queue but a coordinated team can shut him down. He still has powerful ganks, dat ult, tankiness, and fast clearing. I think if he was practiced more, he'd be better in tourneys. I honestly like him a lot better than Udyr, who sees a lot of play. No, thats pretty much exactly why he isnt played. A coordinated team DOES shut him down hard. Not to mention a LOT of common mids shit all over him at all stages of the game. Cass, Ryze, and Ahri all shit on what he wants to do.
And how exactly do they do that to him and not someone like Udyr, who has most of the same weaknesses but without the permaslow and ult?
Not accusing, just asking. Honestly, the only way Skarner gets "shut down", imo, is when you use him to try and initiate and dive the carry with your ult. If you play him right and just use him as a general bruiser and his ult as a counter initiate/hard peel/get that out of position dude, his only real weakness is lack of a hard gap closer. Which he makes up for with tankiness, permaslow, and MS boost.
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iirc mono used skarner against TSM in killing spree to great effect
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On April 11 2012 10:12 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 10:10 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 11 2012 09:58 Requizen wrote:On April 11 2012 05:28 Two_DoWn wrote:
Well, you may think skarner is good still, but he NEVER was a great competitive pick, even prior to the nerf. His tourney record was abysmal.
I also still think naut isnt very good. I just dont like him.
But as much flack as I get for this, its the simple truth: Pro players are just as fickle as the rest of the community. Unless someone beats them over the head with something THEY WILL NOT PLAY IT. They dont have some sort of magical understanding of every champ in the game. Unless they see it, they wont play it. I don't understand why Skarner's record isn't that good, though. He's not like Trynd or Yi, where he excels in solo queue but a coordinated team can shut him down. He still has powerful ganks, dat ult, tankiness, and fast clearing. I think if he was practiced more, he'd be better in tourneys. I honestly like him a lot better than Udyr, who sees a lot of play. No, thats pretty much exactly why he isnt played. A coordinated team DOES shut him down hard. Not to mention a LOT of common mids shit all over him at all stages of the game. Cass, Ryze, and Ahri all shit on what he wants to do. What about skarner makes him so shitty compared to say Udyr?
Much, much more blue dependant for jungling, brings approximately the same level of damage for ganking, and isn't as tanky mid-lategame as udyr. That and his ulti while very, very good against uncoordinated teams, is pretty bad when the response to skarner shurelya's(flash optional) isn't running, but to instantly focus down skarner. Skarner does bring higher damage than phoenix udyr though when built bruiser(I think), but then there are other champs do that better in jungle.
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EPT
