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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! |
On April 07 2012 17:49 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 17:37 Juicyfruit wrote:On April 07 2012 17:33 iCanada wrote:On April 07 2012 17:23 h3r1n6 wrote:
From those item nerfs, the only one I really agree with is the wits end nerf. If they nerf the dorans items, they should sell for more gold imo.
Orianna and Swain buffs are sweet Dont think Ori buffs are enough. She still kinda useless in lane, imo. She need some sort of other buff, maybe an Auto attack range increase or something? I dunno. The mana reduction on Q is a pretty big buff imo. That thing gets spammed so hard. I wish she'd come back to style though, Orianna is by far my favorite AP carry to have in a game. So fun. I know, but considering the Blue buff nerfs last patch she in the same spot she was in before. It great her Q costs 5/10/15/20 less mana on levesl 2/3/4/5 but she still mana starved as hell. Not only that many mage picks flat out out range her Q with nukes that deal more damage and are much easier to use. Take Ahri for example... not only her Q have a 80 range advantage it deals twice the damage, and has higher scaling... and then her auto attack is 100 range higher than ori's. They scale back her damage so that she has to rely on her passives AA boost, but her AA's like one of the shortest compared to the resft of the mages in the game. Even if you really really really want a Utility mage I'd say just taking a Zilean, Galio, Moragan or even say an AP Janna/Lulu gives you a much better lane presence, much better AP ratios/scaling, and pretty well similar levels of utility all the while being significantly easier to play. Orianna prolly my favorite champion in the game, but she just not competitively viable compared to some other picks.
Thinking ori is weak is fine but please dont spout bs like saying ahri has 625 range. Ahri Q doesn't really deal twice the damage either. The ball also has a way longer leash range than Q range so saying ahri Q has better range is just silly.
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So I noticed that currently, mr reds give more magic resist than mrpen reds penetrate. Compare to arpen reds penetrating more than armor reds give, this seems strange.
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On April 07 2012 18:02 dignity wrote:
So I noticed that currently, mr reds give more magic resist than mrpen reds penetrate. Compare to arpen reds penetrating more than armor reds give, this seems strange.
This is because ArPen is a primary red statistic, along with AD, while MPen, along with AP, are secondary red statistics (Primary Blue).
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On April 07 2012 18:02 dignity wrote:
So I noticed that currently, mr reds give more magic resist than mrpen reds penetrate. Compare to arpen reds penetrating more than armor reds give, this seems strange.
Runes have primary secondary and tertiary strengths. Armor is strongest with quints and second strongest with yellows. I don't think that's important in your analysis but all champions gain armor per level. Only nidalee and a bunch of bruisers gain mr per level and not at as fast a rate as armor. This growth cuts down the effectiveness of penetration.
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On April 07 2012 17:58 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 17:49 iCanada wrote:On April 07 2012 17:37 Juicyfruit wrote:On April 07 2012 17:33 iCanada wrote:On April 07 2012 17:23 h3r1n6 wrote:
From those item nerfs, the only one I really agree with is the wits end nerf. If they nerf the dorans items, they should sell for more gold imo.
Orianna and Swain buffs are sweet Dont think Ori buffs are enough. She still kinda useless in lane, imo. She need some sort of other buff, maybe an Auto attack range increase or something? I dunno. The mana reduction on Q is a pretty big buff imo. That thing gets spammed so hard. I wish she'd come back to style though, Orianna is by far my favorite AP carry to have in a game. So fun. I know, but considering the Blue buff nerfs last patch she in the same spot she was in before. It great her Q costs 5/10/15/20 less mana on levesl 2/3/4/5 but she still mana starved as hell. Not only that many mage picks flat out out range her Q with nukes that deal more damage and are much easier to use. Take Ahri for example... not only her Q have a 80 range advantage it deals twice the damage, and has higher scaling... and then her auto attack is 100 range higher than ori's. They scale back her damage so that she has to rely on her passives AA boost, but her AA's like one of the shortest compared to the resft of the mages in the game. Even if you really really really want a Utility mage I'd say just taking a Zilean, Galio, Moragan or even say an AP Janna/Lulu gives you a much better lane presence, much better AP ratios/scaling, and pretty well similar levels of utility all the while being significantly easier to play. Orianna prolly my favorite champion in the game, but she just not competitively viable compared to some other picks. Thinking ori is weak is fine but please dont spout bs like saying ahri has 625 range. Her Q+W has actually slightly bigger range than ahri Q, and her W is her main nuke anyways. It doesn't really deal twice the damage either.
I apologize... that Annie. My brain not working right... But Ahri's AA still 25 longer than Oriannia's. And yeah, her Q actually does do twice as much damage assuming both it hits twice. And most of Ahri's damage comes from her W as well, which actually has the same range as Orianna's Q.
Aside from me getting my numbers on Ahri AA range wrong, all the points are legitimate.
Hell, Salce (imo the best ori player in the world) has a 58.4% winrate in solo queue, and only a 54% win rate with Orianna...
Aside from her being a fun champion with a really cool kit, what reasons are their to pick her? Her ratios mediocre, she mana starved as hell, she damn hard to play, she poor in lane, and there are several other mage picks with equal utility.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 07 2012 18:14 iCanada wrote:
Aside from her being a fun champion with a really cool kit, what reasons are their to pick her? Her ratios mediocre, she mana starved as hell, she damn hard to play, she poor in lane, and there are several other mage picks with equal utility.
Such as? Most of the AP picks like Anivia that can match Ori's utility share one or more of her other weaknesses (often to an even greater extent).
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On April 07 2012 18:08 Niton wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 18:02 dignity wrote:
So I noticed that currently, mr reds give more magic resist than mrpen reds penetrate. Compare to arpen reds penetrating more than armor reds give, this seems strange. This is because ArPen is a primary red statistic, along with AD, while MPen, along with AP, are secondary red statistics (Primary Blue).
I understand AP being primary blue but if MPen was blue primary why is it lower for blues than it is for reds?
The scaling armor thing might be one of the reasons why, but still not sure why the defensive runes would utterly render the offensive ones useless and then some.
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On April 07 2012 18:14 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 17:58 JackDino wrote:On April 07 2012 17:49 iCanada wrote:On April 07 2012 17:37 Juicyfruit wrote:On April 07 2012 17:33 iCanada wrote:On April 07 2012 17:23 h3r1n6 wrote:
From those item nerfs, the only one I really agree with is the wits end nerf. If they nerf the dorans items, they should sell for more gold imo.
Orianna and Swain buffs are sweet Dont think Ori buffs are enough. She still kinda useless in lane, imo. She need some sort of other buff, maybe an Auto attack range increase or something? I dunno. The mana reduction on Q is a pretty big buff imo. That thing gets spammed so hard. I wish she'd come back to style though, Orianna is by far my favorite AP carry to have in a game. So fun. I know, but considering the Blue buff nerfs last patch she in the same spot she was in before. It great her Q costs 5/10/15/20 less mana on levesl 2/3/4/5 but she still mana starved as hell. Not only that many mage picks flat out out range her Q with nukes that deal more damage and are much easier to use. Take Ahri for example... not only her Q have a 80 range advantage it deals twice the damage, and has higher scaling... and then her auto attack is 100 range higher than ori's. They scale back her damage so that she has to rely on her passives AA boost, but her AA's like one of the shortest compared to the resft of the mages in the game. Even if you really really really want a Utility mage I'd say just taking a Zilean, Galio, Moragan or even say an AP Janna/Lulu gives you a much better lane presence, much better AP ratios/scaling, and pretty well similar levels of utility all the while being significantly easier to play. Orianna prolly my favorite champion in the game, but she just not competitively viable compared to some other picks. Thinking ori is weak is fine but please dont spout bs like saying ahri has 625 range. Her Q+W has actually slightly bigger range than ahri Q, and her W is her main nuke anyways. It doesn't really deal twice the damage either. I apologize... that Annie. My brain not working right... But Ahri's AA still 25 longer than Oriannia's. And yeah, her Q actually does do twice as much damage assuming both it hits twice. And most of Ahri's damage comes from her W as well, which actually has the same range as Orianna's Q. Aside from me getting my numbers on Ahri AA range wrong, all the points are legitimate. Hell, Salce (imo the best ori player in the world) has a 58.4% winrate in solo queue, and only a 54% win rate with Orianna... Aside from her being a fun champion with a really cool kit, what reasons are their to pick her? Her ratios mediocre, she mana starved as hell, she damn hard to play, she poor in lane, and there are several other mage picks with equal utility.
Even with ahri Q dealing true damage, it'll never deal twice as much damage as ori Q in lane. Ori Q range still bigger than you give her credit for and her ult is crazy good. Sure she's not a top AP pick, but you can still play her and do perfectly fine.
Salce also only has a 65 % winrate with kennen who's considered to be 1 of the best aps. Just because he has a 54% win rate with ori dun mean she bad. His vlad has even a lower winrate.
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Did an awesome play, wanted to upload to Replays thread, LoL Recorder not on  Also, with the new runes (next patch, do you reckon we'll see a lot more Flat AP blue people? Getting an early lead is much better than about 20 more AP at level 18 imo. Won't be much of an advantage when everyone rolls around with it though. Nerfing flat MR ruined the advantage I had as Ryze too (a lot of MR instead of AP)
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On April 07 2012 18:08 Niton wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 18:02 dignity wrote:
So I noticed that currently, mr reds give more magic resist than mrpen reds penetrate. Compare to arpen reds penetrating more than armor reds give, this seems strange. This is because ArPen is a primary red statistic, along with AD, while MPen, along with AP, are secondary red statistics (Primary Blue).
What? Mpen is primarily red...
It's simply because the mpen runes give less. The quint gives 1.89 mpen while apen quint gives 3.33 apen
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My mistake - I thought MPen was primary blue because of its pairings.
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On April 07 2012 18:37 Juddas wrote:
NA down for me
Ok good, so not just me.
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On April 07 2012 18:36 Niton wrote:
My mistake - I thought MPen was primary blue because of its pairings.
Red is primarily offensive stats except for AP, which I find kinda weird.
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On April 07 2012 18:21 dignity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 18:08 Niton wrote:On April 07 2012 18:02 dignity wrote:
So I noticed that currently, mr reds give more magic resist than mrpen reds penetrate. Compare to arpen reds penetrating more than armor reds give, this seems strange. This is because ArPen is a primary red statistic, along with AD, while MPen, along with AP, are secondary red statistics (Primary Blue). I understand AP being primary blue but if MPen was blue primary why is it lower for blues than it is for reds? The scaling armor thing might be one of the reasons why, but still not sure why the defensive runes would utterly render the offensive ones useless and then some.
Defensive runes should be stronger imo. If you build purely for offense and get fed you can carry a game. If you build purely for defence and get fed you might not be able to carry as easily.
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On April 07 2012 19:01 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 18:21 dignity wrote:On April 07 2012 18:08 Niton wrote:On April 07 2012 18:02 dignity wrote:
So I noticed that currently, mr reds give more magic resist than mrpen reds penetrate. Compare to arpen reds penetrating more than armor reds give, this seems strange. This is because ArPen is a primary red statistic, along with AD, while MPen, along with AP, are secondary red statistics (Primary Blue). I understand AP being primary blue but if MPen was blue primary why is it lower for blues than it is for reds? The scaling armor thing might be one of the reasons why, but still not sure why the defensive runes would utterly render the offensive ones useless and then some. Defensive runes should be stronger imo. If you build purely for offense and get fed you can carry a game. If you build purely for defence and get fed you might not be able to carry as easily.
If you get fed, runes don't make such a big difference anymore. Runes make a bigger difference as to wether you will get fed or not.
Not to mention, if you get fed, you can use that gold for more offensive stats with defensive runes.
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On April 07 2012 19:03 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 19:01 obesechicken13 wrote:On April 07 2012 18:21 dignity wrote:On April 07 2012 18:08 Niton wrote:On April 07 2012 18:02 dignity wrote:
So I noticed that currently, mr reds give more magic resist than mrpen reds penetrate. Compare to arpen reds penetrating more than armor reds give, this seems strange. This is because ArPen is a primary red statistic, along with AD, while MPen, along with AP, are secondary red statistics (Primary Blue). I understand AP being primary blue but if MPen was blue primary why is it lower for blues than it is for reds? The scaling armor thing might be one of the reasons why, but still not sure why the defensive runes would utterly render the offensive ones useless and then some. Defensive runes should be stronger imo. If you build purely for offense and get fed you can carry a game. If you build purely for defence and get fed you might not be able to carry as easily. If you get fed, runes don't make such a big difference anymore. Runes make a bigger difference as to wether you will get fed or not. Not to mention, if you get fed, you can use that gold for more offensive stats with defensive runes.
The amount of difference they make isn't important.
I agree that runes make a bigger difference concerning whether you get fed. I don't know why you think I said otherwise.
On principle, if you get fed and spend that gold on offensive items, but have defensive runes you'll still do less damage than if you had offensive runes.
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And you play Ori wrong, she simply takes control of a zone with her ball, spamming Q is stupid, you don't even need it to last hit under your tower.
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More psyched about the fucking UI changes than i am the patch notes tbh.
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On April 07 2012 12:47 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 10:39 57 Corvette wrote:On April 07 2012 10:05 warscythes wrote:
Eh, Kayle will probably still be underpowered, She isn't underpowered. She is just a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none type of champion. Sure she can fill in any role on the team, but she isn't equal to the normal champions of each role. She trades off a dedicated role for a little bit of everything. Umm. Jack of all trades characters (almost) never work. I.E. Spellpower Ret paladin (wow) Tri-Sorc (Diablo2, unless you have tals, then its viable but not great) (also various other hybrid builds blow) Mario (SSBM) (also see, Luigi) Klobb (Goldeneye) ETC Sometimes a Jack of all trades character gets temporarily buffed into OPness because they become viable in a single role while still being mediocre+ at the other role(imagine Kayle with Ryze's AP power, but maintaining the same sustain/supportiness, another example would be making Annie's shield way better, and able to be placed on any team member).
Spell power and such on Ret Paladins isn't their problem btw.
It's randomness. Saying they're a jack of all trades character and it doesnt work because of spell power is totally wrong.
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EPT
