EPTAlso, it isnt as though a stun is completely random. Does no one actually bother to plan out what they are gonna do with their spellcasts prior to doing things? Besides, a q-w combo with stun on a creep wave and enemy does a lot of damage. If they run, well, then Ryuu's point is moot then isnt it?
[Patch 1.0.0.136: Lulu] General Discussion - Page 193
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
Also, it isnt as though a stun is completely random. Does no one actually bother to plan out what they are gonna do with their spellcasts prior to doing things? Besides, a q-w combo with stun on a creep wave and enemy does a lot of damage. If they run, well, then Ryuu's point is moot then isnt it? | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
You get awkward situations where you have to choose between losing your stun and getting the creep wave shoved under your tower. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
I just wish they'd do something about molten shield, because it's not a strong spell late-game which is when you actually get to max it. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On April 05 2012 04:45 TheYango wrote: The thing is that Annie's trading power is very much rooted in her ability to stun you. If you're forced to W every wave just to not lose CS to tower, then the enemy AP can force trades onto you when you have no stun up. You get awkward situations where you have to choose between keeping your stun and getting the creep wave shoved under your tower. This is what I dont get. Why is her trading power only locked in her stun? Ahri doesnt need her charm in order to trade, but annie does? Ryze has to root every time or he shouldnt be harassing? Vlad doesnt even HAVE a stun, I guess that means he REALLY sucks at trading. Why is annie so special that she cant just get blue buff and throw shit at the enemy? | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On April 05 2012 04:45 TheYango wrote: The thing is that Annie's trading power is very much rooted in her ability to stun you. If you're forced to W every wave just to not lose CS to tower, then the enemy AP can force trades onto you when you have no stun up. You get awkward situations where you have to choose between keeping your stun and getting the creep wave shoved under your tower. Yeah, and that part really sucks about her and contributes to why her laning is inferior to all of these new APs. Of course you could remedy it by being good at last hitting under tower but then it gives the opposing AP time to go gank one of your lanes. Oh you can also remedy it by simply planning out your stun. Against people who are bad they won't even come near minions if your stun is up. You can just freeze lane and last hit with autos against people like that lol. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
Been like this with shyvanna(saint popularized her before M5), Mundo(lol worthless lategame only good thing is his laning), Urgot(used to be a famous 1v1 lanestomper, all of sudden he is played in a tourney, see him in almost every game now), Sion(dyrus played him @ ipl3, lots of people followed) and many many more. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 05 2012 04:47 Two_DoWn wrote: This is what I dont get. Why is her trading power only locked in her stun? Ahri doesnt need her charm in order to trade, but annie does? Ryze has to root every time or he shouldnt be harassing? Why is annie so special that she cant just get blue buff and throw shit at the enemy? Ahri's passive is just as relevant to her trading power as Annie's. If Annie's not using a stun to push superior trading power, and they're just throwing out spells at each other, Ahri's going to come out ahead in the long run because she gets free spellvamp every few spells. The difference is that Ahri can make full use out of her passive just--coincidentally--blowing her Q on a bunch of creeps. Whereas Annie has to save and use her stun on a champion for it to contribute to her trading power. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
On April 05 2012 04:47 Two_DoWn wrote: This is what I dont get. Why is her trading power only locked in her stun? Ahri doesnt need her charm in order to trade, but annie does? Ryze has to root every time or he shouldnt be harassing? Vlad doesnt even HAVE a stun, I guess that means he REALLY sucks at trading. Why is annie so special that she cant just get blue buff and throw shit at the enemy? Ahri ryze have longer range; Ahri has escape mechanisms; ryze has no CDs and can sustain damage; ahri vlad have sustain. Do you just like disagreeing with people to feel cool or something you always make needlessly contrarian posts witheasy answers. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On April 05 2012 04:47 Two_DoWn wrote: This is what I dont get. Why is her trading power only locked in her stun? Ahri doesnt need her charm in order to trade, but annie does? Ryze has to root every time or he shouldnt be harassing? Vlad doesnt even HAVE a stun, I guess that means he REALLY sucks at trading. Why is annie so special that she cant just get blue buff and throw shit at the enemy? Because the range on her spells is 625. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On April 05 2012 04:50 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Ahri ryze have longer range; Ahri has escape mechanisms; ryze has no CDs and can sustain damage; ahri vlad have sustain. Do you just like disagreeing with people to feel cool or something you always make needlessly contrarian posts witheasy answers. And annie has a tremendous ammount of burst damage an aoe ultimate, that as phreak would say, deals tons of damage. And if you want to take champ as a whole, add back in the fact that she has an on demand stun (which it is if you play properly) and she is really good at trading. I only disagree with people when they look at all the positives from one champion and completely ignore a set of positives from the other simply because it helps make their point easier. So I do the same thing saracastically. And Vlad q is 600. Ryze q has 50 more range (675). Kass q is 650. All her shit is around the same length as the point and click stuns of other popular champions. Look, do I think she has the best laning in the game? No. But do I think that she is WORSE than any other laner who is disadvantaged when playing against Cass and Ahri? No. And she isnt. Trying to say otherwise requires completely ignoring what she does. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
off the top of my head, zilean, talon, galio, fizz are all extremely strong against her | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On April 05 2012 04:47 Two_DoWn wrote: This is what I dont get. Why is her trading power only locked in her stun? Ahri doesnt need her charm in order to trade, but annie does? Ryze has to root every time or he shouldnt be harassing? Vlad doesnt even HAVE a stun, I guess that means he REALLY sucks at trading. Why is annie so special that she cant just get blue buff and throw shit at the enemy? I think it has to do with her range. And you can't compare ahri, and vlad to annie, they have sustain, when they attack they get their health back, annie doesn't have that luxury. Not to mention, w/ vlad, and ahri they have good escape mechanisms, so even if they're baited in being too aggressive, they can just escape easily. If you get baited with a trade w. annie, you can say BYE BYE. the reason the stun is so important on annie, in order to trade, is it allows her to leave the range of her opponents without getting retaliated, other wise she would lose all her trades w.o stun. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
On April 05 2012 04:47 Two_DoWn wrote: This is what I dont get. Why is her trading power only locked in her stun? Ahri doesnt need her charm in order to trade, but annie does? Ryze has to root every time or he shouldnt be harassing? Vlad doesnt even HAVE a stun, I guess that means he REALLY sucks at trading. Why is annie so special that she cant just get blue buff and throw shit at the enemy? Sometimes I really feel like you don't read posts. I've already mentioned that she has short spell range and no disengage. She also has no built in sustain. Ahri Q has longer range, hits multiple targets, and builds her passive. Ryze usually farms until he has more mana so he's a bad example, but he has longer range on Q/E and if you're close QWQEQ hurts a LOT. Vlad has sustain. And none of these guys have the awkward decision of using up a 5stack charge. | ||
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fishinguy
Russian Federation798 Posts
On April 05 2012 05:01 kongoline wrote: clg.eu just comming back vs mym from 1-13 score (snoopeh dropped) this guys are sick :O I am astonished by these guys self belief, I mean none of them gave up on this game even when the odds were stacked against them. Compared to this TSM would have imploded after the first 3 kills... | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On April 05 2012 05:05 fishinguy wrote: I am astonished by these guys self belief, I mean none of them gave up on this game even when the odds were stacked against them. Compared to this TSM would have imploded after the first 3 kills... lol... now I feel bad for turning off the stream after Snoopeh d/c'ed. wtf CLG.eu | ||
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BobMcJohnson
France2916 Posts
On April 05 2012 05:05 fishinguy wrote: I am astonished by these guys self belief, I mean none of them gave up on this game even when the odds were stacked against them. Compared to this TSM would have imploded after the first 3 kills... Well Froggen anivia once again does wonders :> | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On April 05 2012 04:57 Two_DoWn wrote: And annie has a tremendous ammount of burst damage an aoe ultimate, that as phreak would say, deals tons of damage. And if you want to take champ as a whole, add back in the fact that she has an on demand stun (which it is if you play properly) and she is really good at trading. I only disagree with people when they look at all the positives from one champion and completely ignore a set of positives from the other simply because it helps make their point easier. So I do the same thing saracastically. And Vlad q is 600. Ryze q has 50 more range (675). Kass q is 650. All her shit is around the same length as the point and click stuns of other popular champions. Look, do I think she has the best laning in the game? No. But do I think that she is WORSE than any other laner who is disadvantaged when playing against Cass and Ahri? No. And she isnt. Trying to say otherwise requires completely ignoring what she does. Good that you mention vlad because the reason he is played more solo top more is because of the short range on his spells along with his insane sustain. But back to annie.She is bad because of her range,end off. Let's completely ignore the main annie slayer Xerath here(which the things he does in lane to a annie is the most one sided rape fest you can imagine),almost every other standard mid champion with a long range poke(ziggs,cassio,ahri,galio,gragass,etc.) outright make annies lane phase so uncomfortable that its just not worth it. You can't look past her range.Sure you can flash ult combo someone and that's about it.You don't trade with annie against any standard mid because you can't even reach them rofl.She IS worse of than most of the laners against cass and ahri. | ||
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