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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! |
On April 05 2012 05:05 fishinguy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 05:01 kongoline wrote:
clg.eu just comming back vs mym from 1-13 score (snoopeh dropped) this guys are sick :O I am astonished by these guys self belief, I mean none of them gave up on this game even when the odds were stacked against them. Compared to this TSM would have imploded after the first 3 kills...
Well I for sure gave up on them. Stopped watching for some time.
But was so impressive to listen to their TS.
"We can still win this guys!" And then they all switched into super serious mode and made one great call after the other.
Most impressive comeback ever.
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CLG.eu cracking up at all the technical difficulties.
Wickd: "We have 3 normal players and two retards on this team (Krepo and Snoopeh)"
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United States37500 Posts
Spilling soda on your keyboard mid tournament.
Best support.
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CLG.eu trolling so hard on voip.
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"My keyboard's all sticky" Scumbag Kreepo strikes again trollolol
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On April 05 2012 05:09 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 04:57 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 05 2012 04:50 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On April 05 2012 04:47 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 05 2012 04:45 TheYango wrote:
The thing is that Annie's trading power is very much rooted in her ability to stun you. If you're forced to W every wave just to not lose CS to tower, then the enemy AP can force trades onto you when you have no stun up.
You get awkward situations where you have to choose between keeping your stun and getting the creep wave shoved under your tower. This is what I dont get. Why is her trading power only locked in her stun? Ahri doesnt need her charm in order to trade, but annie does? Ryze has to root every time or he shouldnt be harassing? Vlad doesnt even HAVE a stun, I guess that means he REALLY sucks at trading. Why is annie so special that she cant just get blue buff and throw shit at the enemy? Ahri ryze have longer range; Ahri has escape mechanisms; ryze has no CDs and can sustain damage; ahri vlad have sustain. Do you just like disagreeing with people to feel cool or something you always make needlessly contrarian posts witheasy answers. And annie has a tremendous ammount of burst damage an aoe ultimate, that as phreak would say, deals tons of damage. And if you want to take champ as a whole, add back in the fact that she has an on demand stun (which it is if you play properly) and she is really good at trading. I only disagree with people when they look at all the positives from one champion and completely ignore a set of positives from the other simply because it helps make their point easier. So I do the same thing saracastically. On April 05 2012 04:53 TheKefka wrote:On April 05 2012 04:47 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 05 2012 04:45 TheYango wrote:
The thing is that Annie's trading power is very much rooted in her ability to stun you. If you're forced to W every wave just to not lose CS to tower, then the enemy AP can force trades onto you when you have no stun up.
You get awkward situations where you have to choose between keeping your stun and getting the creep wave shoved under your tower. This is what I dont get. Why is her trading power only locked in her stun? Ahri doesnt need her charm in order to trade, but annie does? Ryze has to root every time or he shouldnt be harassing? Vlad doesnt even HAVE a stun, I guess that means he REALLY sucks at trading. Why is annie so special that she cant just get blue buff and throw shit at the enemy? Because the range on her spells is 625. And Vlad q is 600. Ryze q has 50 more range (675). Kass q is 650. All her shit is around the same length as the point and click stuns of other popular champions. Look, do I think she has the best laning in the game? No. But do I think that she is WORSE than any other laner who is disadvantaged when playing against Cass and Ahri? No. And she isnt. Trying to say otherwise requires completely ignoring what she does. Good that you mention vlad because the reason he is played more solo top is because the short range on his spells along with his insane sustain. But back to annie.She is bad because of her range,end off. Let's completely ignore the main annie slayer Xerath here(which the things he does in lane to a annie is the most one sided rape fest you can imagine),almost every other standard mid champion with a long range poke(ziggs,cassio,ahri,galio,gragass,etc.) outright make annies lane phase so uncomfortable that its just not worth it. You can't look past her range.Sure you can flash ult combo someone and that's about it.You don't trade with annie against any standard mid because you can't even reach them rofl.She IS worse of than most of the laners against cass and ahri.
Just to point out, having great range doesn't guarantee you complete safety from retaliation. Range advantage decreases with movespeed, even if you both move faster, because casting any spell forces you to stop for at least a split second.
Seriously, by picking and choosing wisely you can make almost any champion sound overpowered/underpowered. It's obvious though that people won't be convinced of how a champion's viability until they're picked up in tournaments.
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I don't actually think I've seen Froggen lose with Anivia. Why the hell do teams not ban her?
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Dang I missed what sounds like an awesome game lol
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United States47024 Posts
On April 05 2012 05:16 Juicyfruit wrote:
Just to point out, having great range doesn't guarantee you complete safety from retaliation. Range advantage decreases with movespeed, even if you both move faster, because casting any spell forces you to stop for at least a split second.
Seriously, by picking and choosing wisely you can make almost any champion sound overpowered/underpowered. It's obvious though that people won't be convinced of how a champion's viability until they're picked up in tournaments.
It's not even an issue of "overpowered" or "underpowered". The terms are just silly.
Either the champion is picked, or it isn't. If it's not, it means for some reason or another, teams don't feel like they suit them. This could be because their AP players aren't practiced on her, they feel she doesn't fit their teamcomps, that her laning isn't strong, that they just forgot about her, etc.
The only relevant empirical fact we have is that Annie is not commonly picked in tournament play recently. As it stands, we can only venture guesses as to why teams don't play her. Right now the whole difference of opinion rises from the fact that some people like T_D feel like it's most likely that it has to do with factors not relating to the champion's actual strengths/weaknesses (players not practiced, players underestimate/forgot about her), while those who are suggesting it's because of something like her weak laning simply have more faith in the analytical ability of top teams.
Hell, even if teams DO start playing her, we STILL don't know which of these are the reason they weren't playing her up to this point. For all we know, if CLG.EU starts playing Annie at a big event, it could just be because Froggen finally got the time to get enough games on her to feel comfortable.
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On April 05 2012 05:16 Juicyfruit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 05:09 TheKefka wrote:On April 05 2012 04:57 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 05 2012 04:50 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On April 05 2012 04:47 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 05 2012 04:45 TheYango wrote:
The thing is that Annie's trading power is very much rooted in her ability to stun you. If you're forced to W every wave just to not lose CS to tower, then the enemy AP can force trades onto you when you have no stun up.
You get awkward situations where you have to choose between keeping your stun and getting the creep wave shoved under your tower. This is what I dont get. Why is her trading power only locked in her stun? Ahri doesnt need her charm in order to trade, but annie does? Ryze has to root every time or he shouldnt be harassing? Vlad doesnt even HAVE a stun, I guess that means he REALLY sucks at trading. Why is annie so special that she cant just get blue buff and throw shit at the enemy? Ahri ryze have longer range; Ahri has escape mechanisms; ryze has no CDs and can sustain damage; ahri vlad have sustain. Do you just like disagreeing with people to feel cool or something you always make needlessly contrarian posts witheasy answers. And annie has a tremendous ammount of burst damage an aoe ultimate, that as phreak would say, deals tons of damage. And if you want to take champ as a whole, add back in the fact that she has an on demand stun (which it is if you play properly) and she is really good at trading. I only disagree with people when they look at all the positives from one champion and completely ignore a set of positives from the other simply because it helps make their point easier. So I do the same thing saracastically. On April 05 2012 04:53 TheKefka wrote:On April 05 2012 04:47 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 05 2012 04:45 TheYango wrote:
The thing is that Annie's trading power is very much rooted in her ability to stun you. If you're forced to W every wave just to not lose CS to tower, then the enemy AP can force trades onto you when you have no stun up.
You get awkward situations where you have to choose between keeping your stun and getting the creep wave shoved under your tower. This is what I dont get. Why is her trading power only locked in her stun? Ahri doesnt need her charm in order to trade, but annie does? Ryze has to root every time or he shouldnt be harassing? Vlad doesnt even HAVE a stun, I guess that means he REALLY sucks at trading. Why is annie so special that she cant just get blue buff and throw shit at the enemy? Because the range on her spells is 625. And Vlad q is 600. Ryze q has 50 more range (675). Kass q is 650. All her shit is around the same length as the point and click stuns of other popular champions. Look, do I think she has the best laning in the game? No. But do I think that she is WORSE than any other laner who is disadvantaged when playing against Cass and Ahri? No. And she isnt. Trying to say otherwise requires completely ignoring what she does. Good that you mention vlad because the reason he is played more solo top is because the short range on his spells along with his insane sustain. But back to annie.She is bad because of her range,end off. Let's completely ignore the main annie slayer Xerath here(which the things he does in lane to a annie is the most one sided rape fest you can imagine),almost every other standard mid champion with a long range poke(ziggs,cassio,ahri,galio,gragass,etc.) outright make annies lane phase so uncomfortable that its just not worth it. You can't look past her range.Sure you can flash ult combo someone and that's about it.You don't trade with annie against any standard mid because you can't even reach them rofl.She IS worse of than most of the laners against cass and ahri. Just to point out, having great range doesn't guarantee you complete safety from retaliation. Range advantage decreases with movespeed, even if you both move faster, because casting any spell forces you to stop for at least a split second. Seriously, by picking and choosing wisely you can make almost any champion sound overpowered/underpowered. It's obvious though that people won't be convinced of how a champion's viability until they're picked up in tournaments.
A split second of cast time isn't going to compensate for at least 200 difference of range between the spells of
annie and the champs I listed above.
And in the end you know what you can just do to avoid the only kill potential annie has on you with flash stun.Pick cleanse as your summoner.gg
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On April 05 2012 05:21 ManyCookies wrote:
I don't actually think I've seen Froggen lose with Anivia. Why the hell do teams not ban her?
"But surely it's like HotshotNidaleeGeeGee! It's not like it needs to be permaban status. Eventually he's got to lose with Anivia, right?"
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On April 05 2012 05:30 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 05:16 Juicyfruit wrote:On April 05 2012 05:09 TheKefka wrote:On April 05 2012 04:57 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 05 2012 04:50 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On April 05 2012 04:47 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 05 2012 04:45 TheYango wrote:
The thing is that Annie's trading power is very much rooted in her ability to stun you. If you're forced to W every wave just to not lose CS to tower, then the enemy AP can force trades onto you when you have no stun up.
You get awkward situations where you have to choose between keeping your stun and getting the creep wave shoved under your tower. This is what I dont get. Why is her trading power only locked in her stun? Ahri doesnt need her charm in order to trade, but annie does? Ryze has to root every time or he shouldnt be harassing? Vlad doesnt even HAVE a stun, I guess that means he REALLY sucks at trading. Why is annie so special that she cant just get blue buff and throw shit at the enemy? Ahri ryze have longer range; Ahri has escape mechanisms; ryze has no CDs and can sustain damage; ahri vlad have sustain. Do you just like disagreeing with people to feel cool or something you always make needlessly contrarian posts witheasy answers. And annie has a tremendous ammount of burst damage an aoe ultimate, that as phreak would say, deals tons of damage. And if you want to take champ as a whole, add back in the fact that she has an on demand stun (which it is if you play properly) and she is really good at trading. I only disagree with people when they look at all the positives from one champion and completely ignore a set of positives from the other simply because it helps make their point easier. So I do the same thing saracastically. On April 05 2012 04:53 TheKefka wrote:On April 05 2012 04:47 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 05 2012 04:45 TheYango wrote:
The thing is that Annie's trading power is very much rooted in her ability to stun you. If you're forced to W every wave just to not lose CS to tower, then the enemy AP can force trades onto you when you have no stun up.
You get awkward situations where you have to choose between keeping your stun and getting the creep wave shoved under your tower. This is what I dont get. Why is her trading power only locked in her stun? Ahri doesnt need her charm in order to trade, but annie does? Ryze has to root every time or he shouldnt be harassing? Vlad doesnt even HAVE a stun, I guess that means he REALLY sucks at trading. Why is annie so special that she cant just get blue buff and throw shit at the enemy? Because the range on her spells is 625. And Vlad q is 600. Ryze q has 50 more range (675). Kass q is 650. All her shit is around the same length as the point and click stuns of other popular champions. Look, do I think she has the best laning in the game? No. But do I think that she is WORSE than any other laner who is disadvantaged when playing against Cass and Ahri? No. And she isnt. Trying to say otherwise requires completely ignoring what she does. Good that you mention vlad because the reason he is played more solo top is because the short range on his spells along with his insane sustain. But back to annie.She is bad because of her range,end off. Let's completely ignore the main annie slayer Xerath here(which the things he does in lane to a annie is the most one sided rape fest you can imagine),almost every other standard mid champion with a long range poke(ziggs,cassio,ahri,galio,gragass,etc.) outright make annies lane phase so uncomfortable that its just not worth it. You can't look past her range.Sure you can flash ult combo someone and that's about it.You don't trade with annie against any standard mid because you can't even reach them rofl.She IS worse of than most of the laners against cass and ahri. Just to point out, having great range doesn't guarantee you complete safety from retaliation. Range advantage decreases with movespeed, even if you both move faster, because casting any spell forces you to stop for at least a split second. Seriously, by picking and choosing wisely you can make almost any champion sound overpowered/underpowered. It's obvious though that people won't be convinced of how a champion's viability until they're picked up in tournaments. A split second of cast time isn't going to compensate for at least 200 difference of range between the spells of annie and the champs I listed above. And in the end you know what you can just do to avoid the only kill potential annie has on you with flash stun.Pick cleanse as your summoner.gg
It's longer than you think. Plus, if you play cass and you only cast spells from max range it's never going to hit anything vs anyone worthwhile anyways.
On April 05 2012 05:29 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 05:16 Juicyfruit wrote:
Just to point out, having great range doesn't guarantee you complete safety from retaliation. Range advantage decreases with movespeed, even if you both move faster, because casting any spell forces you to stop for at least a split second.
Seriously, by picking and choosing wisely you can make almost any champion sound overpowered/underpowered. It's obvious though that people won't be convinced of how a champion's viability until they're picked up in tournaments.
It's not even an issue of "overpowered" or "underpowered". The terms are just silly. Either the champion is picked, or it isn't. If it's not, it means for some reason or another, teams don't feel like they suit them. This could be because their AP players aren't practiced on her, they feel she doesn't fit their teamcomps, that her laning isn't strong, that they just forgot about her, etc. The only relevant empirical fact we have is that Annie is not commonly picked in tournament play recently. As it stands, we can only venture guesses as to why teams don't play her. Right now the whole difference of opinion rises from the fact that some people like T_D feel like it's most likely that it has to do with factors not relating to the champion's actual strengths/weaknesses (players not practiced, players underestimate/forgot about her), while those who are suggesting it's because of something like her weak laning simply have more faith in the analytical ability of top teams. Hell, even if teams DO start playing her, we STILL don't know which of these are the reason they weren't playing her up to this point. For all we know, if CLG.EU starts playing Annie at a big event, it could just be because Froggen finally got the time to get enough games on her to feel comfortable.
Let's be fair, I didn't call anyone over/underpowered, I just merely pointed out that it's very easy to make a champion sound awesome or crap and sound reasonable while you're at it.
And while I have nothing in particular for or against Annie (I rather she stay buried to be honest), I feel like a lot of people are selectively choosing to bash on her weaknesses particularly BECAUSE tournament picks don't favor her when it should be the other way around; again, because it's not very hard to make up a solid argument on paper for why a champion is terrible.
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United States37500 Posts
Yango always so reasonable.
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K,if annie gets to see more tournament play before ziggs and xerath you can perma ban me.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 05 2012 05:33 TheKefka wrote:
K,if annie gets to see more tournament play before ziggs and xerath you can perma ban me.
Quick, someone find a way to get Damionwings to play AP for a team at IPL.
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On April 04 2012 13:47 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 12:56 Kenpachi wrote:
i pick veigar because instagibbing is satisfactory. I main him because he is devastating in low elo
Overcome all odds imo. Veigar is trash in low elos cause you can't do anything in lane, Veigar is god tier 5s.
challenge accepted.
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On April 05 2012 05:34 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 05:33 TheKefka wrote:
K,if annie gets to see more tournament play before ziggs and xerath you can perma ban me. Quick, someone find a way to get Damionwings to play AP for a team at IPL.
I played vs Damion mid in a Reddit tourney. We banned Annie and then I first blooded his Brand at lvl 2. Went like 17-3 on Orianna lol.
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On April 05 2012 05:34 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 05:33 TheKefka wrote:
K,if annie gets to see more tournament play before ziggs and xerath you can perma ban me. Quick, someone find a way to get Damionwings to play AP for a team at IPL.
LOL, #1 post in this thread.
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Russian Federation798 Posts
On April 05 2012 05:38 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 13:47 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On April 04 2012 12:56 Kenpachi wrote:
i pick veigar because instagibbing is satisfactory. I main him because he is devastating in low elo
Overcome all odds imo. Veigar is trash in low elos cause you can't do anything in lane, Veigar is god tier 5s. challenge accepted.
Veigar is awesome at low elos, no one actually truly tries to deny you, and when they do they eat your stun and meteor and never tries again. I have been playing veigar for a couple of weeks now at 1300 elo and I dont think anyone so far knows what the CD and range of his stun is...
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On April 05 2012 05:31 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 05:21 ManyCookies wrote:
I don't actually think I've seen Froggen lose with Anivia. Why the hell do teams not ban her? "But surely it's like HotshotNidaleeGeeGee! It's not like it needs to be permaban status. Eventually he's got to lose with Anivia, right?"
Well fnatic apparently thinks the same as the last team. Don't ban Anivia!
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EPT
