EPT[Patch 1.0.0.136: Lulu] General Discussion - Page 182
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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On April 04 2012 04:21 Two_DoWn wrote: Are you sure it was changed at some point? I could have sworn that flat always came first for both penetration and reduction, going all the way back to when I first started playing and was learning about old last whisper. The other way around would be kind of rediculous. It would be way to easy to cut through armor if you sliced off % first. Now this actually is supposed to have happened before I started LoL, but I always heard that it once was: %>flat>%>flat, then they changed it to %>flat>flat>% (exactly because APen runes + LW was so strong). I'm 99% certain that multiple sources (including that wiki) claimed the latter to be true a couple of months ago. If Riot changed it recently, it was not announced. If they didn't it's either still that way or the information has been wrong for a period of more than 1 year. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On April 04 2012 04:36 Ryuu314 wrote: A correction, smite does true damage so MR/Armor reduction does nothing to improve smite damage. The only way to increase smite damage afaik is via Shaco's passive. Jungle Swain so you can E->smite things. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On April 04 2012 04:45 spinesheath wrote: Now this actually is supposed to have happened before I started LoL, but I always heard that it once was: %>flat>%>flat, then they changed it to %>flat>flat>% (exactly because APen runes + LW was so strong). I'm 99% certain that multiple sources (including that wiki) claimed the latter to be true a couple of months ago. If Riot changed it recently, it was not announced. If they didn't it's either still that way or the information has been wrong for a period of more than 1 year. Last time I claimed it was flat-%-flat-% and was corrected by the wiki, and now it's turned on me AGAIN. Screw this then. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On April 04 2012 04:45 spinesheath wrote: Now this actually is supposed to have happened before I started LoL, but I always heard that it once was: %>flat>%>flat, then they changed it to %>flat>flat>% (exactly because APen runes + LW was so strong). I'm 99% certain that multiple sources (including that wiki) claimed the latter to be true a couple of months ago. If Riot changed it recently, it was not announced. If they didn't it's either still that way or the information has been wrong for a period of more than 1 year. So in other words: who the fuck knows? | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I thought true damage can't be altered at all? Like Vayne's silver bolts go through alistars ult. Afair it's been tested on dominion with the quest buff, and the result was that true damage doesn't increase either, at all. I'm not sure if they'd except Smite from the true damage mechanics, but supposedly neither Swain nor Shaco should be able to incrase damage on smite. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On April 04 2012 04:21 Two_DoWn wrote: Are you sure it was changed at some point? I could have sworn that flat always came first for both penetration and reduction, going all the way back to when I first started playing and was learning about old last whisper. The other way around would be kind of rediculous. It would be way to easy to cut through armor if you sliced off % first. Dead sure. On page 243 of the @Ezreal thread a Riot post on the Runeterra forums is cited with %Reduction first. Ezreal confirms the explanation on page 258. This was all circa May of last year. The wiki didn't list %Reduction first for ages without reason. If I had to guess I would assume Riot changed it when they fixed the bug where %Reduction effects only worked on base Armor/MR. Otherwise this is completely random and unprecedented/unexplained. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On April 04 2012 04:51 Dandel Ion wrote: I thought true damage can't be altered at all? Like Vayne's silver bolts go through alistars ult. Afair it's been tested on dominion with the quest buff, and the result was that true damage doesn't increase either, at all. I'm not sure if they'd except Smite from the true damage mechanics, but supposedly neither Swain nor Shaco should be able to incrase damage on smite. Another one of those odd things. I have always been under the impression that torment DID increase ignite damage, but then phreak came out and said that he didnt think it did. I cant remember what we ended up deciding in the GD thread at the time, other than I STILL am convinced that it does. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On April 04 2012 04:53 Two_DoWn wrote: Another one of those odd things. I have always been under the impression that torment DID increase ignite damage, but then phreak came out and said that he didnt think it did. I cant remember what we ended up deciding in the GD thread at the time, other than I STILL am convinced that it does. Torment does affect Ignite. It's the reason you always run Ignite on Swain because Torment + Ignite is a huge DoT "burst" of sorts. I don't see why it wouldn't effect Smite, but no one is ever going to run jungle Swain so it shouldn't really matter even if it does. All of Swain's damaging abilities can be amplified by Torment, including his autoattacks, champion abilities, summoner spells and items. Torment's own damage is also amplified. Source This spell's damage can be increased through spells that increase damage from all sources such as Hemoplague, Diplomatic Immunity, Torment, and Cutthroat. Ignite page too | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On April 04 2012 05:02 Seuss wrote: I'm fairly certain Kayle's Q increases Smite damage. If I wasn't at work I'd check for sure. Honestly I think Phreak was just wrong, or possibly working under the assumption that since Alistar/Maokai ult doesn't reduce True Damage neither could it be amplified. You can't reduce true damage but it can be amplified by a number of things. Vlad's Hemoplague for example increases the true damage that champions like Vayne, Corki, or Cho'gath deal. | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
Wickd had to blow flash at 1 min because he was too busy trying to do a '/kneel' emote... | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Smite up next for testing, jungle Vlad yo. (Smite page on the wiki suggests: [...]can not be amplified through the use of damage-magnifiers. we'll see about that) €: SCIENCE! Vlad's Ult does not increase Smite damage! But it increases Ingite damage! True damage is not necessarily as true as other true damages! €²: On April 04 2012 05:28 overt wrote: It's definitely possible that Smite doesn't get amplifiers but it would be really weird considering virtually every other form of true damage in the game is effected by damage amplifiers. Riot does weird stuff like that though. CONCLUSIO: Riot does weird shit that makes no sense, now scientifically proven. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On April 04 2012 05:23 Dandel Ion wrote: I just tested Ignite and both the quest buff, and Poppy's Ult increase damage. Smite up next for testing, jungle Vlad yo. (Smite page on the wiki suggests: [...]can not be amplified through the use of damage-magnifiers. we'll see about that) It's definitely possible that Smite doesn't get amplifiers but it would be really weird considering virtually every other form of true damage in the game is effected by damage amplifiers. Riot does weird stuff like that though. | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
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wussleeQ
United States3130 Posts
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snow2.0
Germany2073 Posts
Not sure why you'd ever want to do that.. also, can you tell me if an enemy vlads ult will increase the other teams damage on affected neutral monsters? | ||
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
Reductions generally last for much less time than penetrations do or not permanent effects like they are. Especially now that they reworked the lifesteal aura item. Because they last less, I think they wanted them to be stronger. And with penetrations the other way around. But now that I think about it, I have no idea what happens when the opponent has negative armor values and you still have your Last Whisper to calculate. I guess probably nothing, because it would be strange. If it reduced the negative armor by 40%--> that'd be good for the opponent. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On April 04 2012 06:44 freelander wrote: Well it kinda makes sense how % flat flat % -armor works. Reductions generally last for much less time than penetrations do or not permanent effects like they are. Especially now that they reworked the lifesteal aura item. Because they last less, I think they wanted them to be stronger. And with penetrations the other way around. But now that I think about it, I have no idea what happens when the opponent has negative armor values and you still have your Last Whisper to calculate. I guess probably nothing, because it would be strange. If it reduced the negative armor by 40%--> that'd be good for the opponent. According to the wiki pen does nothing if the target has below 0 armour. | ||
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