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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! |
On April 03 2012 23:00 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 22:53 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 22:43 jcarlsoniv wrote:On April 03 2012 22:35 Two_DoWn wrote:
K guys I need help. I'm stumped.
How should I build jungle ad malz? I went wriggles/wits/phage last game, but I think I want more ad than that. Only ghostblade doesnt work cuz of the whole ranged thing, triforce might be a bit to expensive (and Im not sure how well I could use the phage proc).
Any ideas? This is your next jungle tf/ez isn't it... Only this actually jungles fast. And the ganks are really good. Who needs ap when your w still hits like a truck. In the middle of the game, suddenly do an item switch to AP. It's like the TvZ Bio-Mech switch in Brood War, where you hit a timing where everyone is being denied the crucial third gas from bio mobility and you abuse the timing window for transition during Hive tech building armour and thinking you're troll and then suddenly your pool melts people along with everything else. Or just go BT because your Voidlings have 1.0 AD ratio and you can charge up stacks fast on creep waves with E, idk. And lots of CDR for voidling spam, idk.
Well, I was just kind of thinking about why bother using ult to kill people anyway? One of malz' big problems is that getting a full ult off in a late game teamfight is somewhere between impossible and hell freezing over. Why not just use him like ww? Run around hitting shit, isolate someone and then lock them down while your team kills them or the rest of the team.
I mean, his ult lasts longer and hits harder than ww, even without building ap. It could work.
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There's a discussion in the Naut thread, but basically Seuss advocates full armor runes to stay in the jungle forever and clear faster early on since your shield simply doesn't die. I love wit's end on him for midgame holywtfbbq damage from his W so I'd tell you to avoid AS runes (he must get near 12 AS w/o attaining it, AS runes + wit's -> 1+ AS).
R>W>E>Q, open WEWQ, or Q at level 3 for ganks (I wouldn't like it, level 1 W breaks far too easily and impedes your jungling speed).
First few levels slow because of huge cd on W, and the shield breaks easily so no DoT. Once W+ is level 2+, you destroy camps with AoE, and with smart usage of your passive even buff camps can fall quite easily.
Once you're 6, try to lead your ganks with R if you can help it, RQ easier to hit than QR.
Include some cdr in your build (early shurelya or glacial rush after gp5, you need cdr on your W to maintain clearspeed).
As long as you've got bluf buff, mobility is excellent thanks to his Q mechanic.
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For malz why not go manamune into Frozen heart > BT. > BT > BT spam pets all day and laugh as you ult and 3 pets murder a hapless champion.
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On April 03 2012 23:00 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 22:53 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 03 2012 22:43 jcarlsoniv wrote:On April 03 2012 22:35 Two_DoWn wrote:
K guys I need help. I'm stumped.
How should I build jungle ad malz? I went wriggles/wits/phage last game, but I think I want more ad than that. Only ghostblade doesnt work cuz of the whole ranged thing, triforce might be a bit to expensive (and Im not sure how well I could use the phage proc).
Any ideas? This is your next jungle tf/ez isn't it... Only this actually jungles fast. And the ganks are really good. Who needs ap when your w still hits like a truck. In the middle of the game, suddenly do an item switch to AP. It's like the TvZ Bio-Mech switch in Brood War, where you hit a timing where everyone is being denied the crucial third gas from bio mobility and you abuse the timing window for transition during Hive tech building armour and thinking you're troll and then suddenly your pool melts people along with everything else. Or just go BT because your Voidlings have 1.0 AD ratio and you can charge up stacks fast on creep waves with E, idk. And lots of CDR for voidling spam, idk.
Voidlings also benefit from arp, really good item. Only problem is manas.
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On April 03 2012 23:08 Alaric wrote:
There's a discussion in the Naut thread, but basically Seuss advocates full armor runes to stay in the jungle forever and clear faster early on since your shield simply doesn't die. I love wit's end on him for midgame holywtfbbq damage from his W so I'd tell you to avoid AS runes (he must get near 12 AS w/o attaining it, AS runes + wit's -> 1+ AS).
R>W>E>Q, open WEWQ, or Q at level 3 for ganks (I wouldn't like it, level 1 W breaks far too easily and impedes your jungling speed).
First few levels slow because of huge cd on W, and the shield breaks easily so no DoT. Once W+ is level 2+, you destroy camps with AoE, and with smart usage of your passive even buff camps can fall quite easily.
Once you're 6, try to lead your ganks with R if you can help it, RQ easier to hit than QR.
Include some cdr in your build (early shurelya or glacial rush after gp5, you need cdr on your W to maintain clearspeed).
As long as you've got bluf buff, mobility is excellent thanks to his Q mechanic.
What's this about need to approach 1 as w/o attaining it? Any info as to why and such?
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On April 03 2012 23:27 Schwopzi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 23:08 Alaric wrote:
There's a discussion in the Naut thread, but basically Seuss advocates full armor runes to stay in the jungle forever and clear faster early on since your shield simply doesn't die. I love wit's end on him for midgame holywtfbbq damage from his W so I'd tell you to avoid AS runes (he must get near 12 AS w/o attaining it, AS runes + wit's -> 1+ AS).
R>W>E>Q, open WEWQ, or Q at level 3 for ganks (I wouldn't like it, level 1 W breaks far too easily and impedes your jungling speed).
First few levels slow because of huge cd on W, and the shield breaks easily so no DoT. Once W+ is level 2+, you destroy camps with AoE, and with smart usage of your passive even buff camps can fall quite easily.
Once you're 6, try to lead your ganks with R if you can help it, RQ easier to hit than QR.
Include some cdr in your build (early shurelya or glacial rush after gp5, you need cdr on your W to maintain clearspeed).
As long as you've got bluf buff, mobility is excellent thanks to his Q mechanic. What's this about need to approach 1 as w/o attaining it? Any info as to why and such?
The way Naut's DoT works it does all of it's damage in the span of a second with two ticks. If your attack speed is over 1.0 attacks/second you cancel the second tick and only get one tick for every attack you make as opposed to two.
Also, regarding AD Malz, I made a spreadsheet for him awhile back. While stacking BTs + BC makes your voidlings do the most damage (and is the ideal build for killing turrets quickly) you're still better off for DPS in general if you build typical ranged AD carry. Think of him like EZ: EZ Q scales with AD but if you're auto attacking a typical build will do more damage than BT stacking.
Of course it's a million times harder to build glass carry out of the jungle but my point is that voidling DPS scaling, while pretty hilarious, is secondary in power to a champion's DPS so I don't think I agree with builds like FH into BT stacking.
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On April 03 2012 23:40 phyvo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 23:27 Schwopzi wrote:On April 03 2012 23:08 Alaric wrote:
There's a discussion in the Naut thread, but basically Seuss advocates full armor runes to stay in the jungle forever and clear faster early on since your shield simply doesn't die. I love wit's end on him for midgame holywtfbbq damage from his W so I'd tell you to avoid AS runes (he must get near 12 AS w/o attaining it, AS runes + wit's -> 1+ AS).
R>W>E>Q, open WEWQ, or Q at level 3 for ganks (I wouldn't like it, level 1 W breaks far too easily and impedes your jungling speed).
First few levels slow because of huge cd on W, and the shield breaks easily so no DoT. Once W+ is level 2+, you destroy camps with AoE, and with smart usage of your passive even buff camps can fall quite easily.
Once you're 6, try to lead your ganks with R if you can help it, RQ easier to hit than QR.
Include some cdr in your build (early shurelya or glacial rush after gp5, you need cdr on your W to maintain clearspeed).
As long as you've got bluf buff, mobility is excellent thanks to his Q mechanic. What's this about need to approach 1 as w/o attaining it? Any info as to why and such? The way Naut's DoT works it does all of it's damage in the span of a second with two ticks. If your attack speed is over 1.0 attacks/second you cancel the second tick and only get one tick for every attack you make as opposed to two.
Ah that makes sense, ty. Guess I'll stop building wits on him then, I like the early clearing power aspd runes give too much to stop using them.
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On April 03 2012 23:16 Bwaaaa wrote:
For malz why not go manamune into Frozen heart > BT. > BT > BT spam pets all day and laugh as you ult and 3 pets murder a hapless champion.
Manamune is extremely important on AD Malzahar, as is capping CDR. With both he becomes the most ungodly split pusher in the game. When he has 2-3 voidlings up towers melt like butter, and taking him 1v1 is nigh impossible. He also murders Baron and Dragon.
I don't know if I'd take Glacial Shroud/FH though. I'd much rather take CDR boots and rely on Blue buff for capping CDR, allowing for more AD.
On April 03 2012 23:46 Schwopzi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 23:40 phyvo wrote:On April 03 2012 23:27 Schwopzi wrote:On April 03 2012 23:08 Alaric wrote:
There's a discussion in the Naut thread, but basically Seuss advocates full armor runes to stay in the jungle forever and clear faster early on since your shield simply doesn't die. I love wit's end on him for midgame holywtfbbq damage from his W so I'd tell you to avoid AS runes (he must get near 12 AS w/o attaining it, AS runes + wit's -> 1+ AS).
R>W>E>Q, open WEWQ, or Q at level 3 for ganks (I wouldn't like it, level 1 W breaks far too easily and impedes your jungling speed).
First few levels slow because of huge cd on W, and the shield breaks easily so no DoT. Once W+ is level 2+, you destroy camps with AoE, and with smart usage of your passive even buff camps can fall quite easily.
Once you're 6, try to lead your ganks with R if you can help it, RQ easier to hit than QR.
Include some cdr in your build (early shurelya or glacial rush after gp5, you need cdr on your W to maintain clearspeed).
As long as you've got bluf buff, mobility is excellent thanks to his Q mechanic. What's this about need to approach 1 as w/o attaining it? Any info as to why and such? The way Naut's DoT works it does all of it's damage in the span of a second with two ticks. If your attack speed is over 1.0 attacks/second you cancel the second tick and only get one tick for every attack you make as opposed to two. Ah that makes sense, ty. Guess I'll stop building wits on him then, I like the early clearing power aspd runes give too much to stop using them.
Full Armor page > Attack Speed runes. You get to do ridiculous stuff like start Boots + Ward + Potion and hit level 4 with full health at 3:50-3:55.
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I dunno. I didnt find myself needing mana. Although I did take every blue buff. But even without it I was good.
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You're annoying Seuss, I've got one unused runepage, and the feeling that I'm going to cede, buy armor blues to complete my collection, and try your way. Those precious runepages. :<
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On April 03 2012 23:59 Two_DoWn wrote:
I dunno. I didnt find myself needing mana. Although I did take every blue buff. But even without it I was good.
Is there any particular reason you NEED to go AD malz, or is it just for trollsies.
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It's the same thing as On-hit Kassadin; it's hilariously effective, although maybe not to the extent of the primary build.
Do Malz's Voidlings scale with built AS? Life Steal? On hit effects?
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On April 04 2012 00:07 Juicyfruit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 23:59 Two_DoWn wrote:
I dunno. I didnt find myself needing mana. Although I did take every blue buff. But even without it I was good. Is there any particular reason you NEED to go AD malz, or is it just for trollsies.
Ap flows really bad from the jungle. It just really isnt efficient on anyone. Plus ad malz gives me 90% of his abilities power and lets me jungle.
W hits hard with no ap, and his ult hits harder and longer than ww, even without ap.
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how does on-hit kass work? build tanky, use passive to boost atkspd, and start aa people? What other weird builds are there for traditional caster/mages?
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you go AD Malz because for no good reason your voidlings scale off of your AD, making it more effective than AP for clearing the jungle. sweet merciful jesus, a Malz with CDR cap and 2 AD Items fucking DESTROYS baron, it's so silly. Also, not going AP makes it a lot harder to counter malz with a QSS.
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On April 04 2012 00:13 nosliw wrote:
how does on-hit kass work? build tanky, use passive to boost atkspd, and start aa people? What other weird builds are there for traditional caster/mages?
There's some discussion in the Kassadin thread a page back. Go Cutlass->Rageblade/Wit's/Malady->Gunblade->Stuff. Not as Assassin like, but very effective duelist and split-pusher.
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On April 04 2012 00:14 Mogwai wrote:
you go AD Malz because for no good reason your voidlings scale off of your AD, making it more effective than AP for clearing the jungle. sweet merciful jesus, a Malz with CDR cap and 2 AD Items fucking DESTROYS baron, it's so silly. Also, not going AP makes it a lot harder to counter malz with a QSS.
Wow, I didn't know about the voidling part. That's actually sounds stupidly good.
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On April 04 2012 00:15 Juicyfruit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 00:14 Mogwai wrote:
you go AD Malz because for no good reason your voidlings scale off of your AD, making it more effective than AP for clearing the jungle. sweet merciful jesus, a Malz with CDR cap and 2 AD Items fucking DESTROYS baron, it's so silly. Also, not going AP makes it a lot harder to counter malz with a QSS. Wow, I didn't know about the voidling part. That's actually sounds stupidly good.
And to think I did it just to troll soniv.
I have evolved to the point where my trolling turns out to be semiligit strategies.
The thing that I DIDNT expect was how fast you clear. Even without blue its nocturne fast, if not faster.
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All this talk makes me want to try AD malz botlane. It can turn into a kill lane at level six. Leona, maybe?
Run him in a comp with nidalee or some heavy split pusher and just trololo split push ftw
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On April 04 2012 00:13 nosliw wrote:
how does on-hit kass work? build tanky, use passive to boost atkspd, and start aa people? What other weird builds are there for traditional caster/mages?
Not really tanky, because you have 3 second silence and best mobility skill in the game to avoid taking damage, + 50% slow.
Basically you just max R>W>Q>E, build AS and damage
Good items:
Wits
Malady
Rageblade
Gunblade
Get some health later in the game, Bveil very strong on kass as they have no time to pop it when you jump them with blink. I advise opening cutlass, as the lifesteal+ W passive mana regain onhit makes you have infinite sustain.
I dont really know any other odd builds, you could always do tank cassiopia like Regi and shit were playing a few months ago with Wota and a bunch of warmogs, basically turns her into a magic damage AD carry.
i tried Ad veigar and tank veigar, but Ad was just bad, and tanky was very situational but not that bad as long as your team has good damage to back up your CC.
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EPT
