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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! |
On April 03 2012 09:40 Juddas wrote:
So how do you guys feel about Lich Bane Ezreal? I sort of am under the impression that he would better as an AP mid with Lich Bane rather than an AD bot carry. With smart positioning, I think that lich bane EZ would just be better and do more damage than AD EZ because his ratios are so high and his passive still synergizes so well with Auto attacking.
Am I completely wrong about this? I don't own him (yet) so this is all theorycrafting, but because of his crazy blink mobility and his super high ratios on his W and R, I think he would just be better as a sort of pokey champ that likes to stay in the back as long as possible like Kog. And then because he can actually do some damage with his ult he can clean up after teamfights like no other.
So for builds I would assume something like Sheen into some AP item like maybe RoA or Crystal, then Deathcap, then Lich Bane and then whatever fits in well. So thoughts on this?
And also how would this compare to the standard Lich Bane TF?
AP Ez is not as good as AP Kog. And AD Ezreal is pretty strong. At the very least AD Ez is incredibly versatile and is super team independent because of his E and Q.
If you're just going to play Ezreal like a bitch and Q poke and stuff then sure, go build AP Ez. The problem with AD Ez is people just try to poke down their opponents while not realizing that AD Ez is an auto attacking champion so you need to actually auto. With Trinity -> IE -> LW build he does close to the same amount of damage as most other AD carries late game, more damage than them mid game and if you skip Trinity and just go standard IE/PD/LW build on him he does more damage than a lot of other ADs in late game (50% constant AS boost if you manage your spells right and an AS debuff is really really strong throughout all points of the game).
In my opinion AD Ezreal is always going to be more viable than AP Ezreal unless he undergoes some serious changes.
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Chauster has pointed out before that AP EZ has the highest upfront burst in the game after Dcap Lichbane. The problem with AP Ez is horrible lane "potential" (no kill potential, weak farming skills, high mana costs), but if you can farm up to that core and get blue buff you're golden.
Chau's build is boots 3, dring, dring, sheen, (uhh, I forget now...) dcap, lichbane, voidstaff. Sometimes he'll get mejais before or after sheen if he foresees lots of opportunities to snipe kills with his ult while (for the most part) farming up mid lane.
Q at level 1, R>E>W>Q or R>W>E>Q
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On the subject of smartcasting btw, I know I am a little late, but once you are used to smartcasting, everything else feels sooo slow. Like with my veigar, if i don't smartcast I cant hit the combo. And his E is actually ridiculously easy to cast, at least once you play a game or two.
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on warmog's, the regen's incredibly relevant, just sayin'...
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Smartcasting has helped me practically gain 200 Elo and still raising.
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And scarra's in ability to click on large pictures bites him because he buys the wrong item. Watching some people be unable to double click fast enough or click on an item is really really sad from an SC perspective.
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I use smartcast on dumb champions with single target nukes like ryze. In fact the amount of abilities i smartcast is proportional to how dumb the champ is with ryze at the top.
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I wish Voyboy, scarra, and smash didn't use twitch t.v. Then I could watch their streams more =(
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On April 03 2012 09:50 Juddas wrote:
On the subject of smartcasting btw, I know I am a little late, but once you are used to smartcasting, everything else feels sooo slow. Like with my veigar, if i don't smartcast I cant hit the combo. And his E is actually ridiculously easy to cast, at least once you play a game or two.
took me 2-3 days to get used to it (at first i was horribly bad with smart cast) but god it was worth it
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Whenever I let my non-smartcasting friends play on my comp and I forget to change it back, I generally miss every single one. It's like playing with crazy lag if you ask me. That's all it really is. Smart casting is just perfect ping and dumbcasting is lag. idk how I even played before it.
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Anyone have experience with smart casting and high ping?
Running on 200-250 ping and was having a lot of problems with delay with smart cast.
I can actually click flash and then left click to get it off faster than if I just press the flash hotkey. When I first switched over I would spam the flash key and it would never go off if I pressed the flash hotkey again before it went off. I've gotten use to just tapping the hotkey once now but is this behaviour normal or there's some kind of client/server response/acknowledgement for smart casting that doesn't exist for regular casting?
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Well, there's a window of time in which you can chain things together, but you can also interrupt that queue by e.g. clicking to move. It's possible that you're queuing and then breaking the queue with smartcast due to your ping.
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On April 03 2012 09:47 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 09:40 Juddas wrote:
So how do you guys feel about Lich Bane Ezreal? I sort of am under the impression that he would better as an AP mid with Lich Bane rather than an AD bot carry. With smart positioning, I think that lich bane EZ would just be better and do more damage than AD EZ because his ratios are so high and his passive still synergizes so well with Auto attacking.
Am I completely wrong about this? I don't own him (yet) so this is all theorycrafting, but because of his crazy blink mobility and his super high ratios on his W and R, I think he would just be better as a sort of pokey champ that likes to stay in the back as long as possible like Kog. And then because he can actually do some damage with his ult he can clean up after teamfights like no other.
So for builds I would assume something like Sheen into some AP item like maybe RoA or Crystal, then Deathcap, then Lich Bane and then whatever fits in well. So thoughts on this?
And also how would this compare to the standard Lich Bane TF? AP Ez is not as good as AP Kog. And AD Ezreal is pretty strong. At the very least AD Ez is incredibly versatile and is super team independent because of his E and Q. If you're just going to play Ezreal like a bitch and Q poke and stuff then sure, go build AP Ez. The problem with AD Ez is people just try to poke down their opponents while not realizing that AD Ez is an auto attacking champion so you need to actually auto. With Trinity -> IE -> LW build he does close to the same amount of damage as most other AD carries late game, more damage than them mid game and if you skip Trinity and just go standard IE/PD/LW build on him he does more damage than a lot of other ADs in late game (50% constant AS boost if you manage your spells right and an AS debuff is really really strong throughout all points of the game). In my opinion AD Ezreal is always going to be more viable than AP Ezreal unless he undergoes some serious changes.
AP ezreal has an absurdly strong late game, but you just won't ever reach that state so no one really plays it
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On April 03 2012 09:47 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 09:40 Juddas wrote:
So how do you guys feel about Lich Bane Ezreal? I sort of am under the impression that he would better as an AP mid with Lich Bane rather than an AD bot carry. With smart positioning, I think that lich bane EZ would just be better and do more damage than AD EZ because his ratios are so high and his passive still synergizes so well with Auto attacking.
Am I completely wrong about this? I don't own him (yet) so this is all theorycrafting, but because of his crazy blink mobility and his super high ratios on his W and R, I think he would just be better as a sort of pokey champ that likes to stay in the back as long as possible like Kog. And then because he can actually do some damage with his ult he can clean up after teamfights like no other.
So for builds I would assume something like Sheen into some AP item like maybe RoA or Crystal, then Deathcap, then Lich Bane and then whatever fits in well. So thoughts on this?
And also how would this compare to the standard Lich Bane TF? AP Ez is not as good as AP Kog. And AD Ezreal is pretty strong. At the very least AD Ez is incredibly versatile and is super team independent because of his E and Q. If you're just going to play Ezreal like a bitch and Q poke and stuff then sure, go build AP Ez. The problem with AD Ez is people just try to poke down their opponents while not realizing that AD Ez is an auto attacking champion so you need to actually auto. With Trinity -> IE -> LW build he does close to the same amount of damage as most other AD carries late game, more damage than them mid game and if you skip Trinity and just go standard IE/PD/LW build on him he does more damage than a lot of other ADs in late game (50% constant AS boost if you manage your spells right and an AS debuff is really really strong throughout all points of the game). In my opinion AD Ezreal is always going to be more viable than AP Ezreal unless he undergoes some serious changes.
i refuse to believe a phantom dancer is a bigger dps increase than trinity force.
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Turns out jungle ad malzahar clears stupidly fast. Like mundo and shyvana fast. And his ganks are really really good.
Just gotta figure out what to do late game.
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utdzac's been doing that shit for like 9 months and talking about it on smashboards.
you just go ad for the whole game and your voidlings body people.
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On April 03 2012 06:56 Seuss wrote:Not often, but in the theoretical case Ashe would need to have 1.1515 attack speed in order for FH and the Randuin's passive proc to be equal. By the time you can reasonably finish either item Ashe (or any other carry) should be well past that point. Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 06:36 Mios wrote:plz do the math on all 3 stacked at the same time, then with all 3 + malph e. im lazy but curious.  maybe add nunu snowball for teh lulz. cant think of any other attack speed slows atm. The math is very similar to APen/MPen math. (Current Attack Speed - Base Attack Speed * .35) * Multiplier 1 * Multiplier 2 * Multiplier 3 ... = Final Attack Speed In Malphite's case: (2.5 - .658 * .35) * .8 * .65 * .5 = .59 Attack Speed Adding Nunu (.4) brings it down to .236 Attack Speed. Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 06:39 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 03 2012 06:36 Mios wrote:plz do the math on all 3 stacked at the same time, then with all 3 + malph e. im lazy but curious. maybe add nunu snowball for teh lulz. cant think of any other attack speed slows atm. ezreal W, nasus wither... there's a cap on how low your attack speed can go as I recall though. EDIT: No that's just move speed isn't it? It's not in the wiki, but minimum attack speed is 0.2. It's easily testable with Nasus against any champion as a 95% slow will drop attack speed below that point even if you have 2.5s attack speed. Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 06:54 Alaric wrote:
Isn't Randuin's active better than FH for slowing the AS of enemies from your calculations, Seuss? Or did you not take it into account because it's an active? I didn't take it into account because it's temporary, whereas FH is active as long as you're alive. 3-5 seconds after the Randuin's active is over the cumulative effect of FH surpasses it. Edit: 999 posts. Better make a blog.
About all the slow discussion. I was under the impression that both movement speed AND attack speed slows stacked multiplicatively with a penalty.
If a champion is affected by multiple slows, the strongest one will be fully applied, while the others are applied sequentially with 65% reduced effectiveness down to 35% of its original strength.
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Slow#Decreasing_Movement_Speed
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I don't like TOO's jungle skarner build =/. Zero damage items aside from CDR. Skarner isn't maokai -_-;;;
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On April 03 2012 12:02 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 06:56 Seuss wrote:On April 03 2012 06:35 Slayer91 wrote:
How often do enemies have 2.5 AS? Not often, but in the theoretical case Ashe would need to have 1.1515 attack speed in order for FH and the Randuin's passive proc to be equal. By the time you can reasonably finish either item Ashe (or any other carry) should be well past that point. On April 03 2012 06:36 Mios wrote:plz do the math on all 3 stacked at the same time, then with all 3 + malph e. im lazy but curious. maybe add nunu snowball for teh lulz. cant think of any other attack speed slows atm. The math is very similar to APen/MPen math. (Current Attack Speed - Base Attack Speed * .35) * Multiplier 1 * Multiplier 2 * Multiplier 3 ... = Final Attack Speed In Malphite's case: (2.5 - .658 * .35) * .8 * .65 * .5 = .59 Attack Speed Adding Nunu (.4) brings it down to .236 Attack Speed. On April 03 2012 06:39 UniversalSnip wrote:On April 03 2012 06:36 Mios wrote:plz do the math on all 3 stacked at the same time, then with all 3 + malph e. im lazy but curious. maybe add nunu snowball for teh lulz. cant think of any other attack speed slows atm. ezreal W, nasus wither... there's a cap on how low your attack speed can go as I recall though. EDIT: No that's just move speed isn't it? It's not in the wiki, but minimum attack speed is 0.2. It's easily testable with Nasus against any champion as a 95% slow will drop attack speed below that point even if you have 2.5s attack speed. On April 03 2012 06:54 Alaric wrote:
Isn't Randuin's active better than FH for slowing the AS of enemies from your calculations, Seuss? Or did you not take it into account because it's an active? I didn't take it into account because it's temporary, whereas FH is active as long as you're alive. 3-5 seconds after the Randuin's active is over the cumulative effect of FH surpasses it. Edit: 999 posts. Better make a blog. About all the slow discussion. I was under the impression that both movement speed AND attack speed slows stacked multiplicatively with a penalty. Show nested quote +If a champion is affected by multiple slows, the strongest one will be fully applied, while the others are applied sequentially with 65% reduced effectiveness down to 35% of its original strength. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Slow#Decreasing_Movement_Speed
the whole penalties thing only applies to movement speed increase/decreases. aspd slows are multiplicative with a hard cap at 0.2 attacks per second.
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EPT
